topic Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

EPLaws — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:26:05 GMT

I would like to buy my daughter (Cinemtography major) a new camera. She currently has a Canon 60D. I'd like to find one that takes her to the next level or two. Suggestions?

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

kvbarkley — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:45:22 GMT

What is your budget, and does she have a selection of EF lenses, or only EF-S?

(i.e., Full Frame is the next logical choice, but a 7D is no slouch.)

If video is her passion, you might be asking the wrong bunch.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:37:04 GMT

Next Level? i would recommend either a 5D Mark IV, which can shoot 4K video, but with some limitaitons.

Or, I would look at one of the Cinema EOS camera bodies, which have built-in ND filters and a wider range of ISO settings. These are true video cameras, not camcorders, and are expressly designed for recording video. They can use most any of the EOS interchangeable lenses.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

ScottyP — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:13:11 GMT

Not sure how big a jump you mean but the 80d would be a logical step up from 60d. It has the dual pixel autofocus so it can track and focus better in live view and video.

You should find out before you buy if she wants to stay with another (albeit better) stills DSLR that can do video, or if she wants to go to a dedicated video cam or even to an expensive cinema rig.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:23:46 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
Not sure how big a jump you mean but the 80d would be a logical step up from 60d. It has the dual pixel autofocus so it can track and focus better in live view and video. cINE

You should find out before you buy if she wants to stay with another (albeit better) stills DSLR that can do video, or if she wants to go to a dedicated video cam or even to an expensive cinema rig.

Cinema bodies have been sold at clearance prices for several weeks, at least until year's end.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TCampbell — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:23:35 GMT

There's a $1500 rebate going on with many of the Cinema EOS cameras.

For example... the C100 Mk II has a price tag of about $4k and you can currently get it for $2500 (no lens). But many of the Cinema EOS bodies come in a body version that actually uses the same EOS lenses that Canon DLSRs use.

The C100 doesn't do 4k video... to get to that, you have to jump up to at least the C300 such as the C300 Mk II. BUT... that's a $16,000 camera with a $4k rebate on it so you can pick it up for the bargain basement price of *merely* $12,000! (don't forget to order two so you can film in multi-cam and have a backup camera for serious production work!)

So when you see the price tag to do 4k video in the Cinema EOS line... suddenly the 5D Mark IV is looking like a steal. 🙂

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:36:50 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
There's a $1500 rebate going on with many of the Cinema EOS cameras.

For example... the C100 Mk II has a price tag of about $4k and you can currently get it for $2500 (no lens). But many of the Cinema EOS bodies come in a body version that actually uses the same EOS lenses that Canon DLSRs use.

The C100 doesn't do 4k video... to get to that, you have to jump up to at least the C300 such as the C300 Mk II. BUT... that's a $16,000 camera with a $4k rebate on it so you can pick it up for the bargain basement price of *merely* $12,000! (don't forget to order two so you can film in multi-cam and have a backup camera for serious production work!)

So when you see the price tag to do 4k video in the Cinema EOS line... suddenly the 5D Mark IV is looking like a steal. 🙂

from the description literature.

"The Canon EOS C100 Cinema EOS Camera with Dual Pixel CMOS AF is an updated version of Canon's compact Cinema EOS camera designed for event videographers, documentarians, and independent filmmakers. This updated version provides a new continuous autofocus function for all Canon autofocus lenses, using Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology. This new feature provides faster and more accurate autofocusing to assist users when operating with small crews."

That's the one that they cannot keep in stock, C100. It sold for the price of a 5D3 during Thanksgiving Week. They had bumped the discounts up to $2200 on the C100 line for the entire week.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 21:06:19 GMT

The least expensive 4K offering from Canon is the Canon XC15 4K Professional Camcorder. This sells for about the price of 5D Mark III. No interchangeable lenses. The XC-10 4K Camcorder sells for significantly less.

While these have a buillt-in ND filter, it is not variable. ND Filters are critical tools when shooting video. Sometimes the slower shutter speeds allows in far too much light. Having one built-in is an added convenience. The EOS Cinema cameras employ a built-in variable ND filter, which can mean a significant savings on extra gear.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 17:44:52 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
Not sure how big a jump you mean but the 80d would be a logical step up from 60d. It has the dual pixel autofocus so it can track and focus better in live view and video.

Plus one on the 80D recomendation.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 20:47:12 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
@ScottyP wrote:
Not sure how big a jump you mean but the 80d would be a logical step up from 60d. It has the dual pixel autofocus so it can track and focus better in live view and video.

Plus one on the 80D recomendation.

I suppose it depends upon what is meant by "next step ". The 80D would be an upgrade, but not what I'd consider as next step

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

EPLaws — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 21:18:22 GMT

I'd like her to be able to do things with her new camera that she can't do with the 60D
She's not a professional but is moving beyond her degree and trying to learn the practical applications of what she has learned.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 21:59:28 GMT

80D has dual-pixel continous AF during video. The 60D has no AF during video. And that's before you start talking at least a 2 generation bump in the image sensor. Better video quality, better audio i/o, hdmi out, wifi/nfc, optional electronic zoom lens, etc

Even the 70D was a big step up from the 60D in terms of video. The 80D just adds to and refines that.

edit: Oh, and don't forget the touch to focus touch lcd screen.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 22:01:21 GMT

In a nutshell: a video rundown of the Canon EOS 80D's features

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 01:34:39 GMT

@EPLaws wrote:
I'd like her to be able to do things with her new camera that she can't do with the 60D
She's not a professional but is moving beyond her degree and trying to learn the practical applications of what she has learned.

The prior advice of talking to her about what she might want is probably your best course of action.

The 80D is a technological leap ahead of the 60D. The 80D features Canon's latest "Dual Pixel AF Sensor" technology, which is merely a marble-mouthful way of saying the camera can pe-rform real-time auto-focus in video mode. But, most serioius videographers and cinematographers use fully manual lenses, and "focus pullers" so that they can focus the camera on what they want, instead of what the AF system guess you want.

I would compare the dual pixel AF feature comparable to using Green Square [A} mode to shoot stills. You would be letting the camera focus on whatever it decides to focus on. Again, ask your daughter what is best. She'll probably love it.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:19:17 GMT

EPLaws wrote:
I'd like her to be able to do things with her new camera that she can't do with the 60D
She's not a professional but is moving beyond her degree and trying to learn the practical applications of what she has learned.

Canon's Professional Cinema cameras like the C100 someone else recommended uses the same Dual-Pixal AF system as the EOS 70D and EOS 80D.

Your daughter's 60D can do manual focus pulls like pro cinema cameras. What the 60D can't do and the 70D and 80D can do is automate those focus pulls like newer pro cinema cameras can.

Research both the 70D and the 80D as they are both a big step up from the 60D in terms of video.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:51:35 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:

@EPLaws wrote:
I'd like her to be able to do things with her new camera that she can't do with the 60D
She's not a professional but is moving beyond her degree and trying to learn the practical applications of what she has learned.

Canon's Professional Cinema cameras like the C100 someone else recommended uses the same Dual-Pixal AF system as the EOS 70D and EOS 80D.

Your daughter's 60D can do manual focus pulls like pro cinema cameras. What the 60D can't do and the 70D and 80D can do is automate those focus pulls like newer pro cinema cameras can.

Research both the 70D and the 80D as they are both a big step up from the 60D in terms of video.

The 70D and 80D are not a big step up from the 60D when it comes to video. Aside from having the ability to auto-focus at real time when recording video, the cameras are functionally identical. In other words, there is little to no room for growth compared to a 60D.

The DSLRs will still have the file size and recording time limitions, which the Cinema EOS cameras do not have. The ISO range of the Cinema bodies simply blows the DSLRs clean out of the water. The DSLRs lack a clean video signal out, one that is suitable for recording. The built-in ND filters are a brilliant feature. Bigger image sensors.

The list of features that cinematographers actually want and use is pretty long. Yes, the 70D and 80D are technologically improved cameras. But, that's it. That's all they are.

[EDIT] Not all of the Cinema EOS cameras have the Dual Pixel AF technology. For the C100 it's an optional upgrade.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 15:36:25 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

The DSLRs will still have the file size and recording time limitions, which the Cinema EOS cameras do not have.

The 60D is subject to the 4GB file size limit and requires manual restart after appropriately 12 minutes of recording. The 70D and 80D both automatically start a new file so they are not limited to 12 minutes of recording. Instead they are limited by European Union tax minutia 29 minute 59 second limitation.

Cinematographers generally deal in scenes of shorter duration which are combined into a longer final piece, so a 30 minute limit is less of an issue for a cinematographer than it is for Joe Citizen who wants to record his child's school performance.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 15:58:29 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

The 70D and 80D are not a big step up from the 60D when it comes to video. Aside from having the ability to auto-focus at real time when recording video, the cameras are functionally identical. In other words, there is little to no room for growth compared to a 60D.

Identical except for things like 1080P video at 30 fps on the 60D compared to 60 fps on the 80D. Identical except for no headphone jack on the 60D to monitor audio while recoding video, while there is one on the 80D. Identical except for the 60D doesn't have a touchscreen and the 80D does which combined with the Dual-Pixal AF sensor and Canon's STM lenses, allows one touch focus pulls while recoding video. Identical expect the 60D doesn't have WiFi and the 80D does which allows for wireless remote monitoring and control of the video being recorded. Identical except the 60D can only record MOV files, where the 80D can record MP4 files. Etc.

The 60D was Canon's first enthusiast camera to have video its video features pale when compared to the 80D.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

Waddizzle — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 15:56:27 GMT

@TTMartin wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
The DSLRs will still have the file size and recording time limitions, which the Cinema EOS cameras do not have.
The 60D is subject to the 4GB file size limit and requires manual restart after appropriately 12 minutes of recording. The 70D and 80D both automatically start a new file so they are not limited to 12 minutes of recording. Instead they are limited by European Union tax minutia 29 minute 59 second limitation.

Cinematographers generally deal in scenes of shorter duration which are combined into a longer final piece, so a 30 minute limit is less of an issue for a cinematographer than it is for Joe Citizen who wants to record his child's school performance.

Apparently, you do not shoot video very often.

The only way to get 30 minutes of recording time is to reduce the resolution. If you want to record in Full HD, you're only going to get a few minutes. Period.

Arguing about recording time only shows your lack of understanding of the real differences between capturing video with a DSLR and an actual video camera. I suggest you follow your own advice. Research what a Cinema EOS camera can do that a DSLR cannot.

My opinion on the matter is simple. He shouldn't listen to you or me. He should ask his daughter what she wants, or neds.

Re: What is the best "next step" upgrade from a Canon 60D?

TTMartin — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 16:06:07 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

Apparently, you do not shoot video very often.

The only way to get 30 minutes of recording time is to reduce the resolution. If you want to record in Full HD, you're only going to get a few minutes. Period.

Arguing about recording time only shows your lack of understanding of the real differences between capturing video with a DSLR and an actual video camera. I suggest you follow your own advice. Research what a Cinema EOS camera can do that a DSLR cannot.

My opinion on the matter is simple. He shouldn't listen to you or me. He should ask his daughter what she wants, or neds.

I agree that he should ask his daughter.

Your statements about only getting a few minute of HD video period show your lack of understanding of the capabilities of 80D campared to the 60D.