topic Re: Using HDR for a Single Image in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Using HDR for a Single Image

mjschocken — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 01:50:45 GMT

I hate to ask this and really wanted to figure it out on my own but I can't. So I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional software (4) and noticed that if I start HDR for a single image, I get better sharpness than if I use the sharpness in the tool palette. What I do is crop the image first in the tool palette and then start the HDR and use the sharpness slides in HDR. However, from what I understand of HDR, it is used for multiple images when each image has a different exposure such as when you take three shots using automatic exposure compensation. My question is, how does HDR work on a single RAW image?

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

RobertTheFat — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 03:02:59 GMT

@mjschocken wrote:
I hate to ask this and really wanted to figure it out on my own but I can't. So I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional software (4) and noticed that if I start HDR for a single image, I get better sharpness than if I use the sharpness in the tool palette. What I do is crop the image first in the tool palette and then start the HDR and use the sharpness slides in HDR. However, from what I understand of HDR, it is used for multiple images when each image has a different exposure such as when you take three shots using automatic exposure compensation. My question is, how does HDR work on a single RAW image?

I'm a DPP4 user; but I've never used HDR, so I won't try to answer your question. But I would caution you against relying too heavily on after-the-fact sharpening, whatever tool you may use to produce it. A little goes a long way, and oversharpened images may look good when you're pixel-peeping through a sharpening tool but quite unnatural when viewed as a whole.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe I read somewhere that photo editors normally de-sharpen images slightly to avoid an oversharpened look. If that's so, what you may be seeing is that effect applied in the sharpening tool but not in the HDR tool. The presumed rationale would be that combining the images in HDR will produce a bit of de-sharpening anyway.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:06:50 GMT

"My question is, how does HDR work on a single RAW image?"

Good quesiton.

Maybe it does what I have occasionaly done by hand. Sometimes I wind up with a photo that had more dynamic range than what the camera could handle. I might have a sky that is washed out, or shadows that are completely dark.

So, I fudge it. I will create multiple JPEGs of the image, but with different exposure compensation in settings. I try not to center the exposures around 0 Ev of compensation. For example, for a washed out sky I might create a series of JPEGs with the follwoing exposure settings: 1, 0, -1, -2, -3.

Aside from lens correction and white balance, I don't make any additional changes. I send those to the HDR batch process, and it happily churns its' way through, almost as if I had shot different exposures from a tripod.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

ebiggs1 — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 15:40:22 GMT

"I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional software (4) and noticed that if I start HDR for a single image ..."

I don't use DPP4 very often, just long enough to see I still don't like it. So I don't really know what it is doing but 'real' post editors like Lightroom, Photomatrix Pro, etc, will not process a single image with the HDR option.

If you like what it does, more power to you. Keep dong it as that is all that is important.

DPP's best feature it, it is free.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:05:42 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional software (4) and noticed that if I start HDR for a single image ..."

I don't use DPP4 very often, just long enough to see I still don't like it. So I don't really know what it is doing but 'real' post editors like Lightroom, Photomatrix Pro, etc, will not process a single image with the HDR option.

If you like what it does, more power to you. Keep dong it as that is all that is important.

DPP's best feature it, it is free.

Actually Photomatrix Pro allows you to create HDR images from a single RAW file.

Who knows what exactly its' doing, but it claims that it can to do something with a single file.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

kvbarkley — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:21:42 GMT

RAW has 14 (or more!) bits of resolution. JPEG has 8. The HDR uses those extra bits to get an HDR image that squeezes all those bits into an 8 bit JPEG. Just like dolby dbx!

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

RobertTheFat — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:05:19 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional software (4) and noticed that if I start HDR for a single image ..."

I don't use DPP4 very often, just long enough to see I still don't like it. So I don't really know what it is doing but 'real' post editors like Lightroom, Photomatrix Pro, etc, will not process a single image with the HDR option.

If you like what it does, more power to you. Keep dong it as that is all that is important.

DPP's best feature it, it is free.

Actually, DPP's best feature is that is saves the image's (reversible) changes in the image file itself, eliminating the need for databases, "sidecar" files, or other clumsy workarounds. Ernie knows that; he just doesn't think it matters. If you don't think it matters either, then by all means take his advice.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

kvbarkley — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:46:10 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:

DPP's best feature it, it is free.
Actually, DPP's best feature is that is saves the image's (reversible) changes in the image file itself, eliminating the need for databases, "sidecar" files, or other clumsy workarounds. Ernie knows that; he just doesn't think it matters. If you don't think it matters either, then by all means take his advice.

At the expense of compatibility.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

mjschocken — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:19:34 GMT

Bob,

Thanks for your comments. I have to admit I like to see sharp edges in my wildlife photos although, as you say, not excessively. When I use the HDR tool, I sharpen to a limited extent (~10% on the slider scale) but, to my eye, it improves the look.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

mjschocken — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:22:03 GMT

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I like the DPP-4 because I just started shooting raw and wanted to be sure I liked the RAW images and the processing involved before I purchased Lightroom or a similar software. I expect to purchase something soon.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

mjschocken — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:23:19 GMT

Thanks for your comment. That confirms that a single RAW file can be used for HDR. That was my observation using DPP-4.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:50:23 GMT

@mjschocken wrote:
Thanks for your comment. That confirms that a single RAW file can be used for HDR. That was my observation using DPP-4.

Using a single file, RAW or JPEG, to create an HDR photo is black magic. Photo goes in, and VOILA, magic image comes out.

I use the stand alone version of Lightroom, and a stand alone version of Photoshop. I refuse to rent software. While full blown Photoshop can no longer be purchased, Photoshop Elements seems like a good companion. Although, what most people would use PSE for can be easily done with freeware apps like GIMP or PaintDotNet.

Lightroom is an electronic darkroom, like DPP, except it is MUCH more sophisticated and powerful than DPP.

If you buy the standalone Lightroom, DO NOT try a trial subscription to the Creative Cloud on the same machine, NOR use the same Adobe account and password. If you wish to test drive Creative Cloud, use an entirely different machine and an entirely different Adobe account and password. Your standalone license will get hijacked by CC, and you will have to do a complete wipe and re-install.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

RobertTheFat — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:44:47 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
@RobertTheFat wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:

DPP's best feature is, it is free.
Actually, DPP's best feature is that is saves the image's (reversible) changes in the image file itself, eliminating the need for databases, "sidecar" files, or other clumsy workarounds. Ernie knows that; he just doesn't think it matters. If you don't think it matters either, then by all means take his advice.
At the expense of compatibility.

How so? DPP is capable of generating TIFFs and JPEGs, but uses an intermediate representation that nobody else supports. How is that different from PS and LR?

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

ebiggs1 — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:57:47 GMT

"Actually Photomatrix Pro allows you to create HDR images from a single RAW file"

Not from LR which is where I start all my editing. It can't technically be an HDR if it has only one exposure. I know you can apply the HDR settings to anything.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

Waddizzle — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:07:56 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Actually Photomatrix Pro allows you to create HDR images from a single RAW file"

Not from LR which is where I start all my editing. It can't technically be an HDR if it has only one exposure. I know you can apply the HDR settings to anything.

I guess the plug-in is somewhat limited. Are you running the same version as the ad?

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

ebiggs1 — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:14:39 GMT

Especially for you Bob from Boston, Massachusetts USA.

When you adjust a raw file in DPP4 the changes are saved as an adjustment recipe in a part of the file known as metadata. It can be readjusted or reset at a later time. It's only when the raw file is converted to JPEG or TIFF format that these adjustments are permanently applied.

DPP treats JPEGs in exactly the same way. Edits you make are saved as code in the metadata of the JPEG file when you use the Save or Save As options. The problem is that this code can only be read by DPP, other software ignores it. To make the changes permanent you need to export the file.

Lightroom on the other hand uses a catalog or has an option to save a sidecar file. Once you export the file LR applies the corrections. The original is never touched or altered. It is also good to point out that except cropping, PS does not alter the original file either.

None of this is why I don't like DPP. The main reason is, you can't complete your work in it. You must go to LR or PS anyway so why not just start there? I do admit that DPP4 is a whole lot better than previous versions. Now if Canon tweaks it, and I hope they do, a bit more, I can see using it more. DPP4 doesn't even support all Canon camera! Geeze.

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

ebiggs1 — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:17:32 GMT

"Are you running the same version as the ad?"

I guess, 5.1.3 and the most current version of LR 6.6.1. CR 9.6

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

ebiggs1 — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:21:27 GMT

" I refuse to rent software."

Dang straight!

Re: Using HDR for a Single Image

mjschocken — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 20:47:26 GMT

Thanks for the feedback!