topic Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 16:12:45 GMT

Hello guys,

In April I changed my old Eos 550D for new 7D mk II. The more I use the 7D mk II, the less I like it.
I saw a lot of articles and questions related to sharpness of 7D mkII, unfortunately none of them gave me a clear answer if my 7D mkII has issues with focusing or not. I tried to perform focusing tests, they seem to be fine. However, when I take my camera to action, those pictures look like from cheap compact camera.

Please see results from my walk-around 3 days ago with 70-300L. I didn't have my 24-70L F4 with me, so I can't compare pictures and the weather is not the best for further testing now.

I'm attaching also pictures where you can see exposure and focusing point.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8LlCX1UR7HJQzNnQUR6NF9hTG8

ISO 640 for first 3 pictures:
1. 1/3200 sec, f4,5, focal length 112mm
2. 1/1600 sec, f4,5, focal length 150mm
3. 1/2500 sec, f4,5, focal length 140mm

Moon pictures are from tripod at times 1/40 sec and 1/6 sec, ISO 200 and focal length 300mm

I use back focus button with AI-Servo mode.

I don't think that gear in that price should give results like this, but maybe I just have wrong expectations.
I used this 70-300L glass also on my 550D, results seemed to be much better there. Unfortunately I do not have 550D anymore.

Can you please tell me your opinion? Maybe I do not have the best settings, I'm going to try to reset my camera to default and I'll try once again.
Or isn't 70-300L the best lens for this camera?

Thanks!
Andrej

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

kvbarkley — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 16:20:55 GMT

You can post the shots here in the forum, but I would like to say that 1/6th second is *long* for a moon shot. It can move significantly in that time.

Did you adjust the AF focus microadjustment?

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 16:24:39 GMT

I wanted to post them here, but files are bigger than 5MB and I have an error because of it. That's why I uploaded them on google drive and posted link.

Yes, I tried also microadjustments on static objects, value 0 seems to be the sharpest.

Just 1 additional point, I have the latest firmware 1.1.0

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 16:32:25 GMT

"Moon pictures are from tripod at times 1/40 sec and 1/6 sec, ISO 200 and focal length 300mm"

I will have to download those pictures later today.

Under ordinary circumstances you use the "Looney 11 Rule" to initial exposure settings: 1/100, f/11, ISO 100. Raising the ISO to 200 would normally need a corresponding increase in shutter speed [to 1/200] to get the same exposure.

But, you raised the ISO and dropped the shutter speed, which should yield an overexposed Moon with lost detail. Plus, the moon was 30% brighter than usual. Photographing the Moon is almost like photographing dust on a lit light bulb. When you get it just right, it's fantastic.

What was your f/stop? Raising the f/stop helps focus out to infinity.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 16:46:34 GMT

For moon on photo 4 I used f8 with ISO 200 and time 1/6

For moon on photo 5 I used f5,6 with ISO 500 and time 1/40

This were my first moon shots so ok, I can see that I didn't follow some rules. I just missed the sharpness there.

However, now I'm curious why those pictures were not light at this exposures. If I would use 1/100,f/11 and ISO 100, they would be too dark.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:36:06 GMT

@flash7645 wrote:
For moon on photo 4 I used f8 with ISO 200 and time 1/6
For moon on photo 5 I used f5,6 with ISO 500 and time 1/40

This were my first moon shots so ok, I can see that I didn't follow some rules. I just missed the sharpness there.
However, now I'm curious why those pictures were not light at this exposures. If I would use 1/100,f/11 and ISO 100, they would be too dark.

Weather permitting, try it again tonight. You will get the best results with a good and sturdy tripod, and focusing manually via Live View. Remember, the Moon is a very bright object. It is better to siighly underexpose than to overexpose and saturate the image. Using a remote shutter release, or the internal shutter delay, to reduce camera shake makes a BIG difference, too.

The "Looney 11 Rule" is simply a starting point, to get you in the ballpark. The super Moon was 30% brighter than normal at its' peak, so you should need to dial back the exposure some from that starting point.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:58:31 GMT

Thank you, I'll try it, but I will not be able to do it today due to 100% clouds and rain.

Anyway, this does not explain why the rest of images are not sharp. At least they do not look sharp to me. If you zoom a bit to dog's neck or snitch (based on AF point), you will see that pictures are not sharp. As I told, I would expect to be them much more sharper. In this case, I had better results with my 550D and I could save those money invested in 7D mk II. 10FPS does not make any sense because the rest of pictures are worse than the first which is supposed to be the sharpest.

But I'll try the moon again. 1 additional point, I used internal delay when I was taking moon 🙂 So let's see next

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 18:06:57 GMT

@flash7645 wrote:
Thank you, I'll try it, but I will not be able to do it today due to 100% clouds and rain.

Anyway, this does not explain why the rest of images are not sharp. At least they do not look sharp to me. If you zoom a bit to dog's neck or snitch (based on AF point), you will see that pictures are not sharp. As I told, I would expect to be them much more sharper. In this case, I had better results with my 550D and I could save those money invested in 7D mk II. 10FPS does not make any sense because the rest of pictures are worse than the first which is supposed to be the sharpest.

But I'll try the moon again. 1 additional point, I used internal delay when I was taking moon 🙂 So let's see next

i use a two second internal delay, too. If your tripod has a center column, I suggest that you do not raise much. In fact, do not raise it all. Raising only destabilizes your tripod. Be aware of wind and breezes, which can cause some tripods to resonante like a tuning fork at micro frequencies. The slightest motion of the camera will blur your photo when you're working at long focal lengths, and slow shutter speeds.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 18:37:59 GMT

Hello guys, sorry for delayed reply, it was raining all the time or it was dark when I came from work.

I reset my camera to factory and performed new settings.

Here are 2 new pictures at time 1/200, ISO 400 f10 and f13 at 300mm from tripod (tripod Manfroto which can hold 7kg).

I took it at higher F to see if there is any difference. I'm missing depth of detail there.

If I compare it to pictures of my gf who can take much better pictures of moon (when she cropps it), details and whatever from her tamron 70-200 f/2.8 and Nikon D7200 which was for much better price than mine 7D mkII with this L lens...this looks like pictures from some cheap smartphone camera. So I'm really wondering if it is worth to have reach of 300mm if it is unusable.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8LlCX1UR7HJQzNnQUR6NF9hTG8?usp=sharing

Thanks!

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 20:19:30 GMT

You can post photos in the forum. You need to convert them to about 4MB file sizes, or less. Your posted photos seem to suffer from camera motion blur. Yes, it could be the lens, it could be an incorrect AFMA adjustment, or it could be the camera. The most likely explanation, however, is camera motion blur. Try to take test photos under better light conditions.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:02:43 GMT

Hello Waddizle, thanks for reply.

I didn't want to convert files so you can see them in full resolution. I just exported RAW in LR to JPEG.

What I did few minutes ago, I took pictures with internal flash. With flash, they are super sharp. Time was 1/250, F/11 and focal length 300mm and handheld. Without flash, it is a bad dream.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Wed, 23 Nov 2016 23:12:51 GMT

Try putting the camera on a tripod without the flash, and using the two second shutter delay. Take the same shot again.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 15:10:32 GMT

Hello again,

So my camera was in a service. Summary of steps taken is that "AF adjustment performed" and some other adjustments.

Yesterday I took my camera out and results are unfortunately the same. However, I found that issue is not on different focal lengths. Issue is that "the more distant the subject of which I take the picture is, the worse results I have".

Let's check this pictures below (they are compressed a bit as the dog had 9MB and cat had 5.2MB and this forum allows max 5MB pictures).

Cat is taken at 170mm, 1/2000s, f/5,0, ISO 500 and it was approx 2.5m away from me. And it is super sharp.

The dog is taken at 300mm, 1/1600s, f/8,0, ISO 500 and it was approx 120m away from me.

Let's try to zoom the cat and the dog. The dog is missing all details, it's like in a fog or I don't know how to call it. I don't think the lens is ok. And I understand that in lab they can't reproduce the same because of distant subjects.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:21:06 GMT

The AF points displays and focus information show that your AF point was selected, but not locked when the picture was taken. Note the color of the AF points.

It also reports that you're using AI Servo Mode, and that ZERO AF points have achieved focus. Try using One Shot mode, to test for sharpness. For some undetermined reason, you're not tracking subjects very well..

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 15:42:36 GMT

The shot of the dog shows everything in equal focus. Your shutter speed [1/1600] was high enough to cancel out subject motion blur, and camera motion blur. You might try an AFMA, Auto Focus Micro Adjustment, on the lens.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

RobertTheFat — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:01:35 GMT

@flash7645 wrote:
Hello again,
So my camera was in a service. Summary of steps taken is that "AF adjustment performed" and some other adjustments.
Yesterday I took my camera out and results are unfortunately the same. However, I found that issue is not on different focal lengths. Issue is that "the more distant the subject of which I take the picture is, the worse results I have". ...

Unless you're dealing with absolutely clear air with zero humidity (almost a physical impossibility), the effect you report is a simple fact of photographic life. A long enough lens can magnify the subject as much as you like, but it can't remove the dust, water vapor, etc. in the air between you and the subject, and that debris is going to fog the picture. You can try a UV filter; but that's unlikely to help very much, because modern DSLRs filter out most UV anyway.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

flash7645 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:29:08 GMT

Hi guys,

Thanks for replies.

I use back button focus (metering and AF start).

And the same was used for cat and also the dog. The difference is just in distance of subjects taken. It is not only for moving subjects.

AFMA is also not an issue, I tested this.And if I would have an AFMA issue, it would appear also for cat picture.

Tomorrow I'm going to try with Tamron 70-300 lens to see the difference.

@Bob - it was a clear air. This is unfortunately not my case.

Re: 7D mkII with 70-300L sharpness

Waddizzle — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 22:26:57 GMT

@flash7645 wrote:
Hi guys,
Thanks for replies.
I use back button focus (metering and AF start).
And the same was used for cat and also the dog. The difference is just in distance of subjects taken. It is not only for moving subjects.
AFMA is also not an issue, I tested this.And if I would have an AFMA issue, it would appear also for cat picture.
Tomorrow I'm going to try with Tamron 70-300 lens to see the difference.

@Bob - it was a clear air. This is unfortunately not my case.

I figured that you were using BBF.

There's more to it than distance. You released the button and focus stopped tracking. You should try shooting a stationary subject at a distance using ONE SHOT mode.

There's more to it than distance. The shot of the dog appears to be across a significant distance of water. The temperature of the water will create a temperature gradient in the air just above it, which can have a subtle, negative impact on focus. Having what appears to be "clear air" doesn't make any difference. Humidity, temperature, and air speed matter the most, which is why the volume of air that you're shooting through has a greater impact as distance increases.

AFMA could very well be the solution. It is not uncommon for a telephoto lens to need one adjustment at the wide end, and a different adjustment at the long end. Look at the adjustment in your camera. It has two settings for a zoom, Wide and Tele, but only one setting for prime.