topic Re: First DSLR for filming in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 17:18:49 GMT

Hey everyone,

I am looking for a DSLR for filming purposes. I have been recently watching reviews and video footages to see which is the best for me. Obviously a 5d mark II or III would be the best choice but unfrtunately I cannot afford it.

I have also checked the 60D which looks amazing because of the lcd screen which is adjustable but it has lower image quality, the 6D which also has a full frame sensor as the 5D. But the 60D is cheaper.

Which one do you suggest?

Re: First DSLR for filming

Skirball — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 21:14:55 GMT

Are you already invest in Canon glass? If not, I’d look outside of Canon (the Panasonic GH2 has a bit of a cult following), or if you only want it for video a dedicated video device. I don’t shoot video, but from the guys I know that do Canon dSLR doesn’t come with high regards.

But, if you do want a dSLR that shoots video: I think the main debate is usually between the 600D and 650D. The 600D has 3X crop, and the 650D has autofocus while shooting. There are many debates of which is better (assuming the 600D has Magic Lantern). Last I heard the 7D didn’t have ML, but that may have changed. If you’re going to shoot video, you should probably intend on using ML.

The 6D has a lot of moiré. Again, not from personal experience but from the discussions. Not sure if that’s worth the low light sensitivity.

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Fri, 07 Jun 2013 16:28:48 GMT

I'd rather stick with canon.

Re: First DSLR for filming

nevillesmith — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:00:50 GMT

Actually, historically speaking when it comes to DSLR Filmmaking Canon got it right straight away. In addition, the 7d has had magic lantern firmware available since 2009 [Mod note- edited to remove link]. Now granted technology is always changing but I am big fan of the 7d as well as 650d. If you head over to Vimeo and search by the model number of your interest you will be able to find alot of quality work completed via Canon DSLRs. It might be prudent to also not that Canon is the only company that will continue to support the hardware warranty even with the usage of Magic Lantern firmware http://petapixel.com/2013/05/27/will-custom-firmware-void-my-warranty-canon-nikon-and-panasonic-respond. That is not the case wtih some other camera manufacturers.

Mod note - If the Factory Service Center determines that a third party firmware is the cause of the malfunction, the repair would not be considered as an "in warranty" repair, however, the remainder of the hardware warranty would remain intact. We do not support third party firmware.

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:08:10 GMT

I've used the 5D Mark II, 5D Mark III, and T3i for professional productions. I've not used the 60D or 7D. But, to start out, you can't go wrong with the T3i or T5i. The video is more than acceptable, and most viewers can't really tell the difference between the 5D Mark II and the T5i, not to mention the 60D. Now, the 5D Mark III is in another category altogether! The 5D Mark III is by far the best for DSLR video, but it's a little pricey for your first camera.

I would acquire the T5i (don't remember the non-US model number) and some good lenses. You can spend the difference between the T5i and 60D or 7D on some good non-S lenses that you can use as you upgrade bodies in the future. Spend your money on lenses first, then bodies. Your lenses will serve you much longer than your bodies!

Once you know that a DSLR meets your shooting requirements (they're still-frame cameras first, and video cameras second), you can either sell your T5i or use it as a backup/second camera when you buy a 5D Mark III or other Canon DSLR. Keep in mind that there are major limitations with all DSLRs when it comes to video, and make sure you can live with those limitations.

The major benefit for video of the T5i is the fold-out LCD screen. You will be shooting from different angles (high or low), and you can adjust the screen to compose your shot. Otherwise, you'll need an external monitor, rig, or other relatively expensive gear to adequately compose your shots.

A previous poster mentioned the Panasonic GH3, and that is a great camera for video, but the product line is not as broad or deep as Canon's. I think your decision to say with the Canon product line is good. Good luck in your shooting!

Re: First DSLR for filming

rmbrand — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:44:28 GMT

When buying your camera, make sure to check around for lens deals. I was able to pick up the 6D and a 70-300mm lens for only an additional $350, normally $800. I was able to get everything under $2,500. I only purchased the body (because the store didn't have the one with the kit lens). I just picked up a 40mm at the same store using "points" I had received for the camera purchase, so really you can save money if you shop around. BTW, I managed to nab one of the two remaining Zoom H4n's at this very store for only $220, which normally goes for about $50 more. I'm not a big shopper, so I am grateful I managed these deals.

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:58:23 GMT

Thank you for your replies.

c1video:

Now if I am correct the T5i is the 700D and the T3i is the 600D

Now i've been trhough the prices and I figured that the T5i is the cheapest from all. What makes the difference then between a T5i or a T3i and a 5d mark II? The prcies are so different however you said there's not that much of a difference between the image quality.

I am a bit confused right now because I encountered so many cameras. Th 600D/T3i the 60D the 6D the 5D the 7D the 700D/T5i. And the prices are so different. What I want is a decent image quality with very low noise (i know it also depends on the lens). The full frame sensor seems to be an imortant thing when talking about image quality and the adjustable lcd screen is also a good point. But what about the others? What makes one better than the other?

Re: First DSLR for filming

rmbrand — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:27:30 GMT

Honestly, it really depends on what you intend to do with the camera. If you're going to be shooting in low-light situations, then you're going to want to consider the ISO readings. Although the T5i is a great pre-pro camera, it isn't as good in low light as say a 6D or 5D Mark III. The price variance has to do with things that are loaded into the camera. For instance, the 6D is pretty good in low-light situations, but the 5D Mark III is tons better and handles moiré issues and rolling shutter (that jello effect when you move the camera too fast) slightly better.

What you really need to do is go on Amazon or B&H or any other camera on-line store and start reading all of the reviews for the different types of cameras you're interested in getting. Read both good and bad reviews to give you insight on other people's experiences. They have pretty much done all the homework for you. After that, make a decision of what to buy based on your needs. This was how I came to a decision. It was difficult, but bought the right camera for my current needs.

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 02:45:14 GMT

The full-frame sensor in the 6D and 5D allow better wide-angle coverage, as there is no crop factor. A 50mm lens on a crop-factor camera such as the 60D or 7D or T3i/T5i is equivalent to an 80mm lens on a full-frame camera. That's good if you want to zoom, bad if you want wide angle shots. Also, the full-frame sensor gives you less depth of field for a given lens at a give aperture, so you can separate the focus point from the background.

The 5D Mark II provides good noise characteristics up to ISO 3200, the 5D Mark III looks good up to ISO 6400. Generally, the newer the camera, the better the noise-handling capability, as the manufacturers continue to improve low-noise capability. I think you could comfortably shoot with a T5i at 3200.

My original recommendation, based on your situation and wanting your first DLSR for video, was the T5i. It has better overall performance than the T3i in low light with a given lens and saves you lots of money. So, my recommendation is the T5i with some good lenses. Buy some good lenses with your savings! Good lenses on a mediocre body is better than bad lenses on a good body, and with lenses, you get what you pay for, and Canon lenses retain their value.

The flip-out screen is a great feature for your first DLSR. It gives you a lot of flexibility at a low cost. The 60D has a flipout screen but it is quite old now and I wouldn't recommend it, and the T5i is much better.

Here are some reputable vendor ballpark prices for bodies: 60D, $700; T5i, $850; 7D, $1300; 6D, $1900; 5DIII, $3300.

You can figure out your budget. Leave out the 60D. The flip out screen is valuable for video and it's probably comparable in quality nowadays to the older 7D (same 1.6 crop factor APS-C sensor) but newer Digic processor---probably better in low light. The 6D is the middle ground. New sensor, full-frame, probably better overall image quality than T5i, but $1050 more! Like I said, you may decide that shooting video with a DSLR is not for you after a while. I don't think you want to get stuck with an expensive camera that doesn't meet your shooting needs. But you will definitely appreciate the fold-out LCD.

Hope this helps,

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 02:13:23 GMT

Rolling shutter is about the same for all of the CMOS chip cameras including the Canon videocameras.

However, the moire is noticeably less on the 5DIII than the 6D! It's not as sharp overall, but that can be easily addressed in post processing with a little sharpening.

Do a YouTube search on "Phillip Bloom," whom I respect very much. He did a fairly comprehensive comparison of the 5DIII with the Nikon D800. Also, you can search on "Dave Dougdale" on Youtube for a comparision of the 5DIII and the 60D. For Dougdale's review, disregard his "low-light test" at the end of the video. He used center-point focus on both cameras and found the 5DIII couldn't focus in low light whereas the 6D could. That's because the 5DIII has a totally new autofocus system that is shared with the 1D-X and he should have used focus-assist on the 5DIII. Then...no comparison. The 5DIII is awesome autofocus.

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 02:15:55 GMT

I agree! However, don't bother with the reviews...you'll just get confused even more. Call B&H and talk to a representative. Discuss your honest needs, not you wishes. They'll give you fair and honest advice regarding bodies and lenses and kits.

Re: First DSLR for filming

rmbrand — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:34:05 GMT

I had thought of calling them but went with a local vendor because I could get the most value for my dollar and had done most of the homework on my own. The reason I recommended reviews is that honestly I didn't know what I was looking for. I have spent the last four months watching every tutorial on photography I could via training sites to get the nomenclature down, but still struggled with what features to focus on for video. I spent almost as much time researching everything about cameras and learned that no one camera is exactly perfect. So I got the camera that was as close to what I needed as possible. I love my 6D.

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:44:38 GMT

Thank you very much guys, you are helping me a lot!!

I've been through some comparisons between the 700d and the 600d:

http://www.cameracomparisonreview.com/2013/04/canon-t5i-vs-canon-t3i.html#.Ubg9WPnRh8E

Turns out the 700d/t5i is better afterall as you said. So the 600D is now dropped out.

I live in the EU so the prices are a bit different here:

The 700D is only $813 but the 60D is $890! So having this in mind I'll definitely leave out the 60D HOWEVER all the comparisons and other forum users say that the 60d is way better than the 700D:

"With a 60d you'll get a better viewfinder, much better battery, top LCD, bigger buffer, better grip because its deeper, more UI options and customization, ISO increments in 1/3 stops, back dial..."

Now I don't actually get these things as I am a newbie... Do these things really make difference for a $80 plus?

The 6D costs more than my budget and the adjustable LCD is also missing so I think I'll leave that out for now.

So now I am struggling between the 700D and the 60D. However you said I should leave the 60D out other reviews say it's much better.

Again I am looking for a DSLR to shoot videos with. I would like a clean and sharp overall image quality (I know it really depends on my purposes but there must be an average image quality of these cameras).

My next question would obviously be: what lenses do you recommend me for both these cameras? I've read that the kit lenses are not that good so I would probably go with something else.

Again thank you guys for your efforts. You are helping me a lot!

Re: First DSLR for filming

rvman56 — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:19:01 GMT

I just ordered the T5i with 5 lens kit from Amazon

This DavisMAX Bundle Includes:
1- Canon EOS Rebel T5i 18 MP CMOS Digital SLR Camera w/EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Lens Brand New USA w/ All Supplied Manufacturer Accessories
1- Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Telephoto Zoom Lens Brand New USA w/Manufacturer's Supplied Accessories
1- Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II SLR Lens Brand New USA w/Supplied Manufacturer Accessories
2- LP-E8 Lithium Ion Replacement Rechargeable Battery (Not Original Canon)(Don't Miss out on a Memory!)
1- External Rapid Quick, Travel Charger w/ Car Charger Attachment (Always Have an Extra Battery on Deck!)
1- 8GB SDHC Class 10 Secure Digital High Speed Memory Card
1- 16GB SDHC Class 10 Secure Digital High Speed Memory Card
1- 58mm 0.45x Wide Angle Lens w/ Pouch and Caps (Capture That View!)
1- 58mm 2x Telephoto Lens W/ Pouch and Caps (More Zoom is better!)
1- 58mm 3 Piece Filter Kit Includes: UV, Circular Polarizer and Flourescent Filter and Hard Case
1- 58mm +1 +2 +4 +10 Close-Up Macro Filter Set with Pouch (More Macro with ANY Lens!)
1- 6 Foot High Performance Mini HDMI Cable
1- Padded Carrying Case (Protect Your Investment!)
1- Deluxe SLR Backpack (Padded Compartments Carry All Your Gear Safely!)
1- Full Size 59" Tripod W/Carry Bag (Keep it Steady!)
1- External Digital Slave SLR Flash (Brighten any Memory with a Flash!)
1- USB SDHC Card Reader
1- Memory Card Wallet (Keep your memories safe!)
1- Pack of LCD Screen Protectors (Protect your LCD!)
1- Lens/LCD Maintenance Cleaning Kit
1- Mini Table Top Tripod

Sure hope this a good choice, check it out for $1217.00
Hope this helps....RvMan56

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:39:34 GMT

http://www.amazon.com/75-300mm-Telephoto-Replacement-External-Kit-DavisMAX/dp/B00CF10HIC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1371036511&sr=8-5&keywords=canon+t5i

Do you think this is for real? It's a very good offer! And it's brand new..

The only problem is it cannot be shipped to my address 😞

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:45:41 GMT

I'm sure it's for real, but probably not the best deal for you, given that you want to use the camera for video purposes. The 18-55 lens in an EOS-S lens which means that it works only on 60D, EOS-M, Rebel, and 7D cameras that use the APS-C sensor size. You cannot use that lens on any other full-frame body. That's not too bad, though, because when you sell the camera, most buyers of that body will want a lens, too.

The telephoto zoom 75-300 is a nice lens for the price, but, like the 18-55, has a variable aperture, which means that it will be hampered in low-light situations. You can't use flash and typically don't use external lights when shooting unless you are doing a major production, which is quite expensive. So, you will wish you had lenses with better light-capturing ability, such as f2.8 or better. The 18-55 and 75-300 are OK for nicely illuminated day shots but are not acceptable in low light. Also, you may wish to create the creamy out-of-focus background for tight shots ("bokeh"), and both of these lenses will have some issues because they don't open very wide, especially at the longer focal lengths. For video or film, telephoto lenses and especially zoom lenses are not used that much, so the 75-300/f4-5.6 won't be that useful. It's great for photography though.

The tripod is important, but the one in that package is pretty weak, but probably OK for your purposes. The add-on wide angle lens will also reduce your low-light performance (probably) and probably also cause distortion. The flash is not useful for your video. The other stuff is not at all necessary for your video. It's OK for still photography, but limited usefulness for video.

For your video purposes, I would get the T5i body with the 18-55 kit lens for the best price with a warranty that Canon recognizes for your location. I would also get the Canon 50mm f1.4 USM lens for around $350. That's a great lens for the price and you won't need to upgrade it later. It will allow you to shoot in very low-light situations without increasing your ISO too much, which introduces digital noise. When you upgrade your T5i body in the future, you can sell the body with the kit lens and keep the 50mm f1.4 as your first quality lens.

Find a cheap tripod for $50 or so, the Canon backpack (Deluxe Backpack 200 EG) for $40, two 64 GB Sandisk Class 10 SDXC Ultra Class 10 UHS-I cards at $55-$65, a second Canon battery at around $50 (don't get off-brand batteries, no matter how expensive), and you're in business.

Hope this helps.

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 16:44:51 GMT

Thank you! Sure it helps.

What about the advantages of the 60D I quoted from another forum?

Re: First DSLR for filming

c1video — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:49:42 GMT

"With a 60d you'll get a better viewfinder

---- you will use the flip-out LCD

much better battery,

--- true, that's why you get a second

top LCD

--- you will set the parameters from the flip-out and leave them alone for the scene. Much different than still photography.

bigger buffer

--- useful for burst-mode photography, not at all useful for video.

better grip because its deeper

--- trivial, you get used to whatever you have, and you will use a tripod much of the time.

more UI options and customization

--- compare the "movie" capabilities between the two cameras, not features for still photos.

ISO increments in 1/3 stops

--- half-stops are good enough.

back dial..."

--- OK for stills, not a big deal for video

Go to the Canon website. Download the manual for both the T5i and the 60D. Compare the "movie" chapters between the two cameras. I don't have either camera (I use 5D Mark III and Panasonic prof. video cameras), but you need to compare the movie capabilities (1080p/i, 720p, frame rate (24, 50, 60), max. shooting time per clip, audio adjustment, headphone jack, microphone jack). When I acquired the 5D Mark III, I also compared the 1D-X for movie features. Although the 1D-X is a considerably better still camera, the 5D Mark III actually is better for video, sharing almost of the firmware features of the 1D-X. That's why you need to compare the video features between your two potential cameras.

Note that the 60D was released in August, 2010, whereas the T5i was released in March, 2013. This is a massive amount of time in the digital camera world, with massive improvements in performance. I'll take a T5i over a 60D any day.

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:36:57 GMT

Thank you!

I found a video made with the 700D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdm1img6G6Y

Look at the parts: 0:26 0:32

At the darks parts it is very very noise or I don't even know what that is. Looks ugly!

Re: First DSLR for filming

s_marcell — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:54:52 GMT

but not with this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVOYAQPmBrc