topic Re: Moon pics in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Moon pics

Batfire2000 — Fri, 12 May 2017 11:52:41 GMT

I have a t6i, 75-300 'll zoom, and tripod. My moon pics show no detail of the moon, just a very sharp, crisp white ball. Very new to all this, any suggestions. Thanks, 😎

Re: Moon pics

StanNH — Fri, 12 May 2017 12:22:24 GMT

If you're not setting exposure manually, try spot metering rather than evaluative. Also, note that while you can get attractive shots of a full moon, the greatest detail will be visible during a partial phase when shadows along the terminator highlight crater detail.

Re: Moon pics

kvbarkley — Fri, 12 May 2017 14:41:14 GMT

Remember, the moon is an object lit by bright sunlight. Use the looney11 rule and use a manual exposure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looney_11_rule

Re: Moon pics

Batfire2000 — Fri, 12 May 2017 19:04:24 GMT

Thanks !!

Re: Moon pics

TCampbell — Fri, 12 May 2017 19:45:02 GMT

If any automatic exposure is used (especially with evaluative metering) the camera notices the blackness of the nigtht sky, assumes the sky is underexposed, and it tends to over-expose the moon. This blows out any details on the surface.

The exposure guideline suggests that at f/11 (and only at f/11 for this guideline to work) that the shutter speed is simply the inverse of the ISO setting. E.g. at ISO 100 then the shutter speed should be 1/100th sec; at ISO 200 then the shutter speed should be 1/200th, etc.

Here's an example

You can see a larger version on my Flickr page: https://flic.kr/p/TDsy5A

You don't have to use f/11... you can use f/8 or f/5.6, or any f-stop... as long as you know how to trade "stops" of aperture for stops of ISO or shutter speed. e.g. if you used f/8 (which is one stop brighter then f/11) then you'd need to either reduce the ISO by a stop, or reduce the shutter speed by a stop to balance the exposure.

To control this, you'll need to use manual exposure - don't even meter. Just dial in the exposure and shoot.

Moon exposures like the one above are typically presented after the photographer has post-processed them. The image above has had a white balance adjustment as well as some exposure & contrast adjustment, and I also typically apply a bit of sharpening to help the craters pop.

Re: Moon pics

ebiggs1 — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:02:49 GMT

What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!

Re: Moon pics

Waddizzle — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:23:27 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!

You read my mind. So, what WB settings should be used?

Re: Moon pics

TCampbell — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:24:10 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!

That's exactly right. But there is one caveat.

For a typical daylight (mid-day sun on a clear day) we can use the "Sunny 16" rule: if using f/16, just set the shutter speed to the inverse of your ISO (or ASA back in the film days) - the rule was great to know when you did photography back when cameras didn't have built-in light meters.

But the moon is actually a rather poor reflector of light. It's true tonality is roughly the shade of the sidewall of an old black tire... or an old asphalt road (not freshly paved road when it looks darker). A properly exposed image of the moon would actually look a bit dim because of this rather poor reflectivity.

The "Looney 11" suggests brightening it up by shooting 1 stop brigher than the "Sunny 16" rule (hence "Looney 11" rule).

The moon is technically in "sunlight" and the Sun is pumping out a VERY consistent amount of light. The light meter reading you could get 1000 years ago is the same meter reading you'd get today and it will be the same in another 1000 years. So there's no need to "meter" the moon as long as you know the rule. Just dial in the exposure and take the shot.

Re: Moon pics

TCampbell — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:26:45 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!
You read my mind. So, what WB settings should be used?

I shoot everything in RAW. But if using JPEG, just set it to Daylight (Sun).

My astrophotography camera (Canon EOS 60Da) is about 4-5x more sensitive to "reds" than a typical camera, so all the images come out looking very warm and I always have to adjust the white balance in post processing.

Re: Moon pics

RobertTheFat — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:27:29 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!

Well, er, you could just as easily say that about the Earth. Yes, it's always daylight somewhere on the Moon, but not necessarily where you're looking. Remember: the "dark side of the Moon" is just a figure of speech.

Re: Moon pics

Waddizzle — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:35:16 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!
You read my mind. So, what WB settings should be used?
I shoot everything in RAW. But if using JPEG, just set it to Daylight (Sun).

My astrophotography camera (Canon EOS 60Da) is about 4-5x more sensitive to "reds" than a typical camera, so all the images come out looking very warm and I always have to adjust the white balance in post processing.

That's just it, though. When I dial in "Daylight", the Moon turns orange, way too warm.

BTW, I've always thought the Moon was a near ideal reflector of sunlight, meaning that it reflects visible frequencies uniformly.

Re: Moon pics

TCampbell — Sat, 13 May 2017 01:23:11 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@TCampbell wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
What most folks fail to realize is, it is always daylight on the Moon. It isn't night time up there!
You read my mind. So, what WB settings should be used?
I shoot everything in RAW. But if using JPEG, just set it to Daylight (Sun).

My astrophotography camera (Canon EOS 60Da) is about 4-5x more sensitive to "reds" than a typical camera, so all the images come out looking very warm and I always have to adjust the white balance in post processing.

That's just it, though. When I dial in "Daylight", the Moon turns orange, way too warm.

BTW, I've always thought the Moon was a near ideal reflector of sunlight, meaning that it reflects visible frequencies uniformly.

My images of the moon always look too warm because that's the result of my using a camera that is significantly more sensitive to reds (desgined that way because emission nebulae tend to have a lot of hydrogen alpha wavelength light -- which is red). So I always have to adjust the white balance manually (using custom).

However, since I do shoot RAW, I opened the .CR2 in DPP (DPP will generally apply the same correction that you would have had if you set the adjustment in-camera). I found that nearly all settings resulted in an orange moon except for Tungsten (which was very blue) and Florescent (which was grey with a slight cold blue/purple cast) EXCEPT for "Auto". Auto generally has a bad reputation because usually it guesses wrong, but for the Moon ... it actually came out with a fairly neutral. As I move my mouse around the image while reading off the pixel values, they're extremely close to being a decent neutral gray.

So I'd have to suggest using 'Auto' if you shoot JPEG in camera... assuming you prefer to shoot JPEG (I do everything in RAW).

Re: Moon pics

Waddizzle — Sat, 13 May 2017 15:17:39 GMT

The "Looney 11 Rule" applies to a full Moon. You will need to adjust the exposure settings for less than a full Moon.

1/100, f/6.3, ISO 100.

Re: Moon pics

TCampbell — Sat, 13 May 2017 16:52:05 GMT

Nice image!

The percentage of the illumination of the disk shouldn't matter to the exposure. E.g. a crescent moon vs. a full moon would use the same exposure -- it's just that the image of the moon is hitting fewer pixels on your sensor (of the pixels that are being illuminated the brightness would be about the same.)

Atmosphere will change things... if the moon is low in the sky vs. high in the sky. This is the same reason why the sun appears dimmer when at sunset - you're looking through more atmosphere.

Also, keep in mind that most people tend to overexpose the moon. It's true surface brightness isn't as bright as what you see in most photos.

Here's a gibbous moon that I shot a few years ago following the Looney 11 rule. The final adjustment seen here is boosted by about 2/3rds of a stop (and technically it's a bit bright but it looks better and it's what most people probably expect.)

Here's a version from the same image, except with no adjustment to the exposure:

The dimmer of the two is probably more accurate based on the relatively poor surface albedo of the moon, but the image where I pushed up the exposure probably looks more appealing. Remember... it's true surface brightness is rougly that of a worn asphalt road or the gray sidewall of an old tire.

If you own a photographic "gray card" then that's probably 18% gray (18% of the light that hits it will be reflected back). You'll find most sources list the moon's albedo (it's reflectance) at .12 (12%). The albedo is an average across the surface but you'll find darker or brighter areas. More recently I'm seeing measurements that are putting the moon's albedo at .136 (13.6%). But both of those values (12% or 13.6%) are darker than a tpyical photographic gray-card (usually 18%).

If the exposure you're getting out of the camera is matching the dimmer of the two exposures I posted above, then you're probably getting a fairly accurate exposure.

Re: Moon pics

ebiggs1 — Sat, 13 May 2017 18:51:20 GMT

I try to shoot the Moon when it is higher in the sky. The atmosphere doesn't effect it as much. I know people think the Moon is larger when it is low or just above the horizon but it isn't.

I shoot RAW but I shoot 99.5% of everything in RAW format. There is little reason not to anymore. I never look at or even consider WB on any subject.

Re: Moon pics

Waddizzle — Thu, 18 May 2017 08:22:06 GMT

EOS 7D Mark II, "Daylight" WB, 1/100, f/11, ISO 100, 600mm. "Straight Outta Da Camera"

There was lens compensation applied by LR, along with whatever default sharpening and noise reduction it uses for RAW to JPEG exports. It has been cropped roughly 50%, or so.