topic Re: no more cameras? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

no more cameras?

BlairW — Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:33:13 GMT

today I was in the Verizon store where one of the guys told me the days of a camera are dead! I guess he doesn’t know about much better optics and a larger sensor in a camera vs a smart phone.

Re: no more cameras?

TTMartin — Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:38:49 GMT

@BlairW wrote:
today I was in the Verizon store where one of the guys told me the days of a camera are dead! I guess he doesn’t know about much better optics and a larger sensor in a camera vs a smart phone.

What he should have said was the days of low end point and shoot cameras are past. There are physics based reasons why a EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is as large as it is. Those haven't been overcome with current smartphone technology. Even superzoom P&S cameras like the SX60 HS still have a place. But, as far as low end point and shoot cameras he is correct.

Re: no more cameras?

diverhank — Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:40:17 GMT

@BlairW wrote:
today I was in the Verizon store where one of the guys told me the days of a camera are dead! I guess he doesn’t know about much better optics and a larger sensor in a camera vs a smart phone.

He's right regarding point and shoots...the iphone 7 camera is pretty impressive, I must admit.

Re: no more cameras?

Waddizzle — Fri, 07 Oct 2016 23:07:10 GMT

@BlairW wrote:
today I was in the Verizon store where one of the guys told me the days of a camera are dead! I guess he doesn’t know about much better optics and a larger sensor in a camera vs a smart phone.

I've always thought they were obsolete. You cannot fix them. They're expensive disposable cameras.

Re: no more cameras?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 08:04:28 GMT

"What he should have said was the days of low end point and shoot cameras are past."

I made that comment a while back and you all phoo-phooed it. But in fact it is true unless Canon and Nikon, etc., make a P&S that works and operates like a iphone. The big pro level cameras will always be with us but unless they redo the P&S they are dead.

You still need a big sensor for a big print so that may help'em. But they need to dump the SD card. Have full wireless operation and full touch screens. Lord how long do these things have to be around before Canon realizes that's what the young people are familiar with. The next generation of P&S needs to be cell phone without the phone part!

Re: no more cameras?

BlairW — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 15:34:14 GMT

I think this guy was talking about SLRs. He said his brother in law has as he called it this “big camera” with different lenses. I think he doesn’t know the first thing about photography and groups all cameras together. I don’t doubt the new iPhone 7 does a remarkable job for a smartphone. I was in the store to upgrade to an iPhone 7, they were out of stock.

Re: no more cameras?

diverhank — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:07:28 GMT

@BlairW wrote:
I think this guy was talking about SLRs. He said his brother in law has as he called it this “big camera” with different lenses. I think he doesn’t know the first thing about photography and groups all cameras together. I don’t doubt the new iPhone 7 does a remarkable job for a smartphone. I was in the store to upgrade to an iPhone 7, they were out of stock.

The professional cameras are not going away ever I don't think...but the more expensive phone cameras like the iphone 7 is way better than your typical P&S. A few weeks ago my wife and I were at the Huntington Beach pier (southern CA) at night. I had the Canon 5D Mark III, 600EX-RT and tripod and my wife, an iPhone 7 plus...the light level was low enough that would totally render the average P&S unuseable but handheld shots from the iPhone 7 just off the camera without any post processing looked remarkedly nice without any visible noise,,,actually just as nice as mine if not better. Of course, if you blow it up 100% it might be a different story. Not sure how the iphone did it but I was impressed. The iphone 7 plus has 2 side by side lenses instead of 1 and I think it uses one in black and white and mixes with the color to improve low light performance.

Re: no more cameras?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 19:40:25 GMT

"Of course, if you blow it up 100% it might be a different story."

And therein lies the only problem. But most of theyounger generation 'photographer' use social media so they aren't concerned with that either.

Re: no more cameras?

RobertTheFat — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 04:22:40 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"What he should have said was the days of low end point and shoot cameras are past."

I made that comment a while back and you all phoo-phooed it. But in fact it is true unless Canon and Nikon, etc., make a P&S that works and operates like a iphone. The big pro level cameras will always be with us but unless they redo the P&S they are dead.
You still need a big sensor for a big print so that may help'em. But they need to dump the SD card. Have full wireless operation and full touch screens. Lord how long do these things have to be around before Canon realizes that's what the young people are familiar with. The next generation of P&S needs to be cell phone without the phone part!

My wife, her brother and sister, and a few of their cousins get together for dinner and drinks every year at this time. The cousin at whose house today's event was held and his wife are serious photographers, comparable to my wife and me. When he decided to photograph a particularly attractive vegetable plate that one of the women had prepared, he whipped out his smartphone to do the job. This is a 75-year-old man whose everyday camera is a full-frame Sony mirrorless. When things have reached such a pass, you have to suspect that Ernie is largely right.

Re: no more cameras?

Mitsubishiman — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 08:01:03 GMT

While I tend to agree with the general consensus, this does not come without a bit of irony…

We all do have P&S cameras, and really good ones, we just choose to be “Finite”

It’s called Jpeg & Auto

Ironically after I started shooting in Raw I found although I was taking as many shots, I am processing far less final pictures then I ever did for viewing, at first I thought it was because I had just become that much better at my skills, then I realized that in the past I was a “Percentage Photographer” taking several Jpeg shots, varying the settings and then saving my favorites in a folder labeled BO (Best Of) inside of the parent folder.

Then I actually begin to believe those that referred to those that took several as “Banging Away” that I should concentrate on all of the variables, every setting and that I should concentrate on the subject and only take one picture and post process, because after all of the knowledge I have obtained I should be cognizant enough to only need to take one exposure.

Then I realized that I no longer enjoyed taking pictures, I spent over ten minutes on settings and composure, a half hour on post processing, and then being my own worst critic looking at the final product and realizing it could have still been better, and I am still looking at the one shot I took.

Remember I do not make a living from photograhy, I enjoy photography...

So I switched my methods back, I will take a lot of heat for this one, guaranteed, I determined that I have a 5dsR, 64GB high end SD card (and several 32s) I am not likely to run out of storage space because I am not shooting video.

Full resolution Raw + Jpeg , with a sim view I see and capture both, so in effect I have a P & S and the instant gratification pictures if I want them, I flip through them and if I see the ones that I am self-impressed with then I post process for me ,and I still have the - because in life sometimes a picture is “Just a Picture” a record of a moment, and I went back to several shots and it became fun again

I remember a story about Frank Lloyd Wright taking a walk with his uncle through the snow, his uncle said look at your tracks compared to mine, you are over here, over there, and I walked in a straight line and arrived at the destination with the least amount of steps, Frank said I vow to never be like my uncle and miss all of the things along the journey that he did….

Because a camera is not my profession and although I came from film, I determined that those that say “Banging Away” although I understand the logic, I also understand the nomenclature comes from a film point of view and I will leave it there.

That is a lot of words to get to my point; P & S is instant gratification for a photograph that will likely be for the purpose of quick subject, lower resolution digital or small print viewing, until the MP has reached stellar levels in a camera style the size of a phone that will be the limitations, before that actually happens video will reach the res that everyone will pull a still from the video, because it is faster instant gratification because it captured more.

I view my work on 40” plus screens, print 16” X 24” and we are a long way from any P & S that will produce anything close to acceptable for large scale viewing.

When we do, my EOS 5dsR will be sitting next to my Art Deco Brownie on the shelf next to my 24TB server as a reminder that I probably should upgrade to a larger server.

Re: no more cameras?

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 12:26:20 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@ebiggs1 wrote:
"What he should have said was the days of low end point and shoot cameras are past."

I made that comment a while back and you all phoo-phooed it. But in fact it is true unless Canon and Nikon, etc., make a P&S that works and operates like a iphone. The big pro level cameras will always be with us but unless they redo the P&S they are dead.
You still need a big sensor for a big print so that may help'em. But they need to dump the SD card. Have full wireless operation and full touch screens. Lord how long do these things have to be around before Canon realizes that's what the young people are familiar with. The next generation of P&S needs to be cell phone without the phone part!
My wife, her brother and sister, and a few of their cousins get together for dinner and drinks every year at this time. The cousin at whose house today's event was held and his wife are serious photographers, comparable to my wife and me. When he decided to photograph a particularly attractive vegetable plate that one of the women had prepared, he whipped out his smartphone to do the job. This is a 75-year-old man whose everyday camera is a full-frame Sony mirrorless. When things have reached such a pass, you have to suspect that Ernie is largely right.

I thought Ernie's argument was from the opposite direction. He had argued that P&S cameras need to act more like smart phones, which I assume means they need to able to make phone calls, play games, internet, messaging, etc. I didn't understand him to argue about anything comparing picture taking performance, at all.

Re: no more cameras?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 13:39:16 GMT

"He had argued that P&S cameras need to act more like smart phones, which I assume means they need to able to make phone calls, play games, internet, messaging, etc"

I do know better than to do this but "assuming" is and has been a problem here. If the P&S can survive, I doubt it, but if they can they do need to be more like a cell phone. Even down to the ability to play games and attaching a 'message'. They have to be what the younger generation of 'photographers' know and are familiar with. What they all grow up with. Canon and Nikon don't seem to be aware of this and have suffered a catastrophic demise in sales.

"... I assume means they need to able to make phone calls..."

No they won't make phone calls! There is that assumming thing again. They need to operate like an iphone not be an iphone.

Re: no more cameras?

Waddizzle — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 14:55:42 GMT

"No they won't make phone calls! There is that assumming thing again. They need to operate like an iphone not be an iphone."

I'll repeat this one last time. Not many people would buy that product. It could mean another monthly charge on your smartphone bill. Your phone can already do all of that stuff, and make phone calls.

No, what you're describing is more akin to something like a tablet. You're describing something like an iPad with Wi-Fi, but no phone service hardware, which adds to the cost of the device. Who wants a tablet with a 3 inch screen?

No, the future of point and shoot cameras is going to have to be something that existing devices cannot do. I think they have potential to be extensions of smart phones and tablets, but not compete with them.

Re: no more cameras?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 15:12:26 GMT

I new this was a mistake to continue this with you. " It could mean another monthly charge on your smartphone bill."

They are not iphones. Get that thought out of you mind. They need to work like a cell phone. How simple is that to understand? The proof is on my side. Just check out the plummeting sale figs for P&S and the lack luster dismal Mx series of Canon's efforts.

Good lord some cameras are just recently getting some touch screen features. Get rid of the nutty SD cards. Make the file transfer seamless and effortless. That is how an iphone "works".

Glad I have a job to do today..............................

Re: no more cameras?

FFN — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:49:17 GMT

Back in 1970s, they said paper would be gone and computers would replace it as a means of communication. Did not happen.