topic Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Ewellman — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 06:32:38 GMT

I am looking to jump into the DSLR market. I am upgrading from a SX10 IS point and shoot which I use fairly exclusively in manual settings. I am looking to get into many different types of photography including: landscape, time lapse, star trail, action sports (both indoor and outdoor), and a general goto camera.

I do not work as a professional by any means, nor do I get out every weekend to shoot pictures. However, in the coming years, I will be doing a lot of traveling (camping, touring other cities, backpacking, etc) so it will get used a lot more heavily. I am looking to try and keep the whole purchase under 2k.

I have read many posts across the internet on the subject saying one side or the other. I also have read rumors of new cameras coming out in early 2013. I have family members that already have canon lenses that I could borrow, I just dont know which ones they exactly have. Eventually I would be looking to make my own collection though.

Cameras that I have been considering are the 7d,60d, or the t4i.

I like the shooting speed of the 7d and can afford the cost, but will have to settle with the kit lens that comes with it for a while.

I like the 60D because I have heard a lot of good reviews on the image quality and the pictures I have seen of sky photography. (I know this has a lot to do with the lens as well).

Then the t4i because of it realatively inexpensiveness and I could buy an extra lens or 2.

I would like to keep my sx10 but can trade it in for the loyalty program maybe?

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

jfo — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:20:33 GMT

@Ewellman wrote:

I also have read rumors of new cameras coming out in early 2013.

There will always be rumors of new camera coming out, so I think you just have to bite the bullet and buy when its a good time for you.

@Ewellman wrote:

Cameras that I have been considering are the 7d,60d, or the t4i.

I like the shooting speed of the 7d and can afford the cost, but will have to settle with the kit lens that comes with it for a while.

I like the 60D because I have heard a lot of good reviews on the image quality and the pictures I have seen of sky photography. (I know this has a lot to do with the lens as well).

Then the t4i because of it realatively inexpensiveness and I could buy an extra lens or 2.

I would like to keep my sx10 but can trade it in for the loyalty program maybe?

I think you have a pretty good evaluation of your options, and the benefits and tradeoffs of each model in terms of capability and opportunity cost. Good catch also on knowing your family members and any lenses they have are an excellent resource to keep in mind.

My first question is to find out what they have. If they have a wide assortment, I'd recommend that you can opt for a 'better' camera/body sooner. Otherwise, I think its a great idea to start with a T4i. In the whole scheme of things, its a very inexpensive body, and the money you save to put towards building up your own collection of great lenses will be worth it.

As a professional now, I started out with a T2i back when it was the newest T#i. I used this as an opportunity to get used to the Canon user interface for the manual settings that I understood already (coming from a video background). It sounds like you will have a similar situation. Then, I worked on developing my creative eye, and using and understanding the capabilities of different 'cheaper' lenses (the kit 18-55mm and a 55-250mm telephoto, then soon after the 'nifty-fifty' -- you'll understand these references after your first few months with a DSLR).

As I started hitting roadblocks due to lens capabilties/specs, I figured out what I couldn't do that I wanted, what lens could help me with that, and began investing in "good glass". I borrowed a better camera/body a few times in the past two years, but it literally was not until last month when I finally upgraded from my T2i.

Any decent body/camera will do when it comes help you with the to the most important part of photography: seeing good shots. Better lenses give you more ways/options of "seeing". Arguably, a camera could too, but I think more accurately, it should be said that it just helps more consistantly capture what you see and are inspired by.

To use an analogy: its like learning how to drive. You want something reliable and capable to start -- you learn the basic features of the equipment and also the rules of the road. Then, you can get a "nicer" car and appreciate what makes it nice. (Lenses don't fit very well into this analogy... )

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Ewellman — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:16:30 GMT

Would you recomend either of these to start with? I do a sport called kayak polo, so I usually have to stand on land and shoot out onto a lake (about 30-40 meters out)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Lens

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM Telephoto Zoom Lens

or this being a little cheaper and then can get maybe 1-2 more on top?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Lens

any recomendations?

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

David — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:50:25 GMT

If you don't mind buying used, the 50D is an excellent camera and can be purchased for around $500 and free up some money for better lenses.

I would recommend the 70-200mm f/4 IS over the non-IS f/4 and f/2.8, it is the newest and sharpest of the three. The 100-400mm would be a better choice for the kayak polo.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Michaeldigital — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:44:47 GMT

I've owned the 70-200ƒ4 and if I were starting out today, I would suggest checking out the 70-300L. It's as sharp as the 70-200 and gives you that extra 100mm. The IS is superb. I can get sharp images hand held at 1/50 of a second at 300mm. I have 3 other L lenses and this is as sharp as any of the others including prime lenses.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Great_Beyond — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:59:15 GMT

"There will always be rumors of new camera coming out, so I think you just have to bite the bullet and buy when its a good time for you."

That's true with ANY technology - Ipods, game consoles, computers, television sets - it will all eventually get replaced by a newer, sexier thing. Usually just as soon as you open it and lose the reciept. (:

As for the Lens or Camera question, honestly I think we've reached the point where cameras will not get much nicer until the next quantum leap in technology. The megapixel arms race is nothing but snake oil - really, beyond 12 or so megapixels you're not going to see much improvement unless you're blowing your prints up to billboard size - and too many megapixels can actually degrade the quality.

I would go with the lens first. Get yourself a couple of nice prime lenses (like a 35mm, and a 50mm) and perhaps a zoom lens (like a 70-300mm) and you're golden. With 2 grand, you could get a pretty sweet setup with just those lenses and a moderate camera body.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

coryparris — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:03:37 GMT

There are many ways that you can go. The one that I would not recommend would be to be stuck with the kit lens. Buy a cheaper camera than you can afford and then add some accessories that make you enjoy the camera more. If you don't like the design of the brand new cameras in your price range, look at used. A 40D is a great camera at a bargain price if you don't care about video. Another amazing deal out there is the 5D classic. 🙂

Specific things to buy in my opinion would be a faster prime lens (50 1.8, 28 1.8 or 85 1.8 or a macro) that you think may fit your shooting style. Then get a flash. Something that you can swivel and point at a wall and learn to use bounce flash.

Best of luck! 🙂

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Marsu42 — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 18:32:02 GMT

fo wrote:
There will always be rumors of new camera coming out, so I think you just have to bite the bullet and buy when its a good time for you.

... and if you're on a budget, at least wait a couple of month until backorders are filled and the "early adopters premium" is cut from the price - the $2099 of the 6d seem to be set so it can drop under the psychologically important $2k barrier in no time to be more competitive to the Nikon d600.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

jstntym — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:05:57 GMT

Most importantly these days is my Canon lenses. They will most likely outlive my Canon body and will be used on the next Canon body upgrade. I have my favorites but they all serve a use, I selected them for those purposes. I'll most likely be in a holding pattern with the 5D MkIII for awhile, it's a fine camera but a little more than your budget for now. I'm not going to suggest a camera but do some research on what features are important and if you want a crop or fullframe. I'm personally going to suggest more of your emphasis on the lens that would serve you well for your type of photography. As you progress in camera bodies the lenses can follow you. Additionally as you dial in your specific needs you can fine tune your lenses of choice. My camera bodies come and go with more frequency than the lenses. Someday in the near future I'll be upgrading to a 1-series body. I had the 1D X on a pre-order but as it kept being pushed further out for release I picked up the 5D MkIII which has a very similar AF system, almost identical, and will serve me well for many years to come. I'll be looking at the next generation 1-series in the future. If you like crop cameras and they suit your shooting preferences the 7D is a superb camera and will fit into your budget. Do consider a good lens with great IQ. The most important factor is the one behind the camera, great gear without the skills really won't suffice..

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

shoot_ric — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:32:55 GMT

You can rent all three bodies for a week. Expect to pay between $55-$75 each. Try them all then decide what works best for you. Good luck.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

jfo — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 20:55:33 GMT

Sounds like the consensus is 'save money on the body, and get good lenses'... but I think another important takeaway is what jstntym said:

@jstntym wrote:
The most important factor is the one behind the camera, great gear without the skills really won't suffice..

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

cdn-bigfoot — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 23:11:45 GMT

Make sure you understand the theory of "lens cropping" before buying any new DSLR body.

Se my post on this subject in this thread: http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/7d-or-5d-that-is-my-question/m-p/2179#U2179

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Ewellman — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 04:13:17 GMT

Would these be good lenses to start with (Choose 2)?

Canon Telephoto EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Autofocus Lens

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM Lens

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus Lens

Canon Wide Angle EF 35mm f/2.0 Autofocus Lens

Would be trying to keep lens cost to between 1000-1500, then the rest of the money could be put towards a body. I would like to try and avoid paying more than 1k for any 1 lens just because of the limitations it would bring to the overall set up. I do have plans to buy more lenses in the future, just not the near future.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

jfo — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 04:25:11 GMT

@Ewellman wrote:
I would like to try and avoid paying more than 1k for any 1 lens just because of the limitations it would bring to the overall set up.

I'm not sure if this is a good strategy; you could end up short-changing yourself by getting two okay lenses rather than one great lens.

Typical lenses pros buy once as their "go to" or 'walkaround' lens are the 24-105mm f/4 L IS or the 24-70mm f/2.8 L.

@Ewellman wrote:

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus Lens

Its not a bad lens, from what I hear. It comes as a kit lens with the 7D, FYI, so it actually sells for very cheap 'used' (possibly in very new condition from photographers who upgrade bodies with the 7D kit and never need to even use this lens). Since it comes with the 7D, its also the lens that advanced hobbyists, etc sell as they move up in skill and equipment. Budgeting around $200-250 instead of MSRP might give you a lot more flexibility.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

JELPhotography — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:18:35 GMT

if you're going to do it.. DO IT

i have the 70-200/2.8Lii and the 16-35/2.8Lii --- this xmas i'll probably get a 24-70ii because i need that focal range for the work i want to do - i'm missing opportunities from time to time..

(if the price dips this xmas like the 70-200 did last year - it dipped to $2k and i got it, see www.CanonPriceWatch.com to see it), i'll get it

later on.. "maybe" i'll get into primes - slowly

if you're "not" going to do it.. "meh" --- just get "whatever" lenses

but if you're serious about photography - identify the serious lenses and get them

and figure on getting two bodies

i now shoot with a 1dx and a 7d (17-55 and 10-22 for the 7d -- the 70-200 goes on my 7d also)

yeah, the cost is steep

but, if you want to do this - just do it ---- make a plan, adjust your lifestyle ("create" an artificial state of economic scarcity) - sacrifice and get the equipment you'll need to do the work/art you want to do

just do it

or not

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

JELPhotography — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 05:23:42 GMT

as to your other question (lens or cams first)..

lens

i started out with a t2i --- then i started getting the lenses

along the way i came into a 7d (sold the t2i to get it)

then a 5d2

but i kept the 5d2 in tip-top condition and the shutter counts to a minimum because i knew i wanted the 1dx

and yeah.. when the 1dx came out, i sold the 5d2, waited for the first firmware update, and got it

only recently have i come into the need for the 24-70 ---- so now its on my list

and yes - i am happy with all of my decisions so far

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

Ewellman — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 06:44:07 GMT

Not sure what happened with that last post so ill try to remember what I had typed.

The reason I don't want to spend more than 1k on a lens is to try and get 2 lenses to keep my options open for both the distance that I shoot sports and a regular use lens. I was hoping to spend around 1500 for the pair of lenses and then upgrade or get more as I get the funds and figure out the lenses that I want/need. I just don't want to lock myself into just one lens then have to wait several months till I can get another. Now if money wasn't a concern or I already had a camera body, then I would gladly choose 1 very nice lens and maybe get another, but as I do not have a body, or any lenses of my own, im at the all too familiar conundrum of which lenses to get for the little money that I have to spend.

So if I spend 1200 on 1 lens, then another 5-600 on a body, there goes my budget just like that and I will be stuck with the 1 lens. I would much rather have 2 to have some variety in case I can not borrow from my family members.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

JELPhotography — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:38:11 GMT

when i bought my first camera, i bought it as a kit

costco had a sale for a t2i with an 18-55 kit lens and the 55-200

the kit also came with a bag (still use it!) and some other things (cf card..)

that might be a good start for you

the cost came to juuuust under $1k out the door

that got me started

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

jfo — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:40:00 GMT

@Ewellman wrote:
Not sure what happened with that last post so ill try to remember what I had typed.

The reason I don't want to spend more than 1k on a lens is to try and get 2 lenses to keep my options open for both the distance that I shoot sports and a regular use lens. I was hoping to spend around 1500 for the pair of lenses and then upgrade or get more as I get the funds and figure out the lenses that I want/need. I just don't want to lock myself into just one lens then have to wait several months till I can get another. Now if money wasn't a concern or I already had a camera body, then I would gladly choose 1 very nice lens and maybe get another, but as I do not have a body, or any lenses of my own, im at the all too familiar conundrum of which lenses to get for the little money that I have to spend.

So if I spend 1200 on 1 lens, then another 5-600 on a body, there goes my budget just like that and I will be stuck with the 1 lens. I would much rather have 2 to have some variety in case I can not borrow from my family members.

I still think this would be straddling the fence, and you'll end up a bit hindered in both the distance sports shots and regular use.

@JELPhotography wrote:
when i bought my first camera, i bought it as a kit

costco had a sale for a t2i with an 18-55 kit lens and the 55-200

the kit also came with a bag (still use it!) and some other things (cf card..)

that might be a good start for you

the cost came to juuuust under $1k out the door

that got me started

I had a similar start. Amazon's deal/discount was that the 55-250mm was thrown in for free, so that covered me with at least the ability to shoot further away.

Ewellman: if you had to, a second-hand kit lens from the T#i series (18-55mm focal length) can be bought for $100 or less, and that would be a very decent "regular" lense as you're learning photography and how to use your DSLR. Even the 55-250mm is cheap and chould get you started with distance sports photos if its outdoors and somewhat bright.

As I think more about starting out with photography, I want to reiterate to not caught up in all this gear and the nicer lenses too early. When you first get your DSLR, you'll have plenty to get used to already, and starting out with a simpler lens like the basic kit lens will actually give you a much better appreciation and thoughtfulness about what you need with your next lens.

Re: Lens or Camera first? Lens suggestions?

JELPhotography — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:32:13 GMT

As I think more about starting out with photography, I want to reiterate to not caught up in all this gear and the nicer lenses too early. When you first get your DSLR, you'll have plenty to get used to already, and starting out with a simpler lens like the basic kit lens will actually give you a much better appreciation and thoughtfulness about what you need with your next lens.

that's good advice