topic Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Wed, 01 May 2013 01:03:21 GMT

Can the laser show used by my local bar band really destroy the sensor in my Canon 5D3? I did a web search and found lots of references to a case about a 5D2 a few years ago, but there's been nothing since. Was that a fluke or do I really risk my cameras shooting a bar band for free? And if so. . .what does a new sensor cost?

For anyone in the forum who shoots bands with laser shows. . .what I've read says you can be safe if you work it out with the guy who programs the show, and stand in some designated safe zone where the laser will not go. Sounds scary to me.

Here's a pic; they're a Judas Priest tribute band in San Diego, Hellbent. Great music, great show. Camera settings were f/2.8, 1/160th, 6400 ISO with a 24-70 or 70-200 (I used both and forget which this was). You can see the lasers were coming dangerously close to me.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

Skirball — Wed, 01 May 2013 15:08:07 GMT

Nice photo.

Safe, legal answer: yes, it could hurt the sensor.

Realistic answer: anywhere they let you stand presumably doesn't have enough laser exposure to hurt your eyes, chances are your camera will be fine.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

Stephen — Wed, 01 May 2013 17:52:49 GMT

Hi everyone!

While lasers are regulated in the US, we recommend using caution as there could be a possibility of them causing damage to your camera's sensor.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Thu, 02 May 2013 09:39:13 GMT

Thanks--any idea what the cost would be, to replace the sensor?

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

ebiggs1 — Thu, 02 May 2013 13:53:03 GMT

"Thanks--any idea what the cost would be, to replace the sensor?"

I don't think you really want to know! FF sensors are very expensive. But to further answer your original question, I worked with industrial lasers for many years. There is not only danger from direct contact by the beam but all lasers emit radiation. In fact laser safety glasses have side shields to protect from this radiation being bounced off walls or some other surface.

Maybe it is not sufficient to damage your 5D Mk III but it can damage your eyes and than you won't need your 5D Mk III.

Lasers are not toys and probably should not be treated as such. I know the laser shows are way cool but caution is in order.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

Skirball — Thu, 02 May 2013 14:55:04 GMT

@FrankR wrote:
Thanks--any idea what the cost would be, to replace the sensor?

As ebiggs says, it's not a solution you want to consider.

As I said, I personally wouldn't worry. But nobody is going to advise you to do it, for the legal implications if something happened to go wrong. See the canned statement from Canon above.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

Skirball — Thu, 02 May 2013 14:57:17 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:

But to further answer your original question, I worked with industrial lasers for many years. There is not only danger from direct contact by the beam but all lasers emit radiation. In fact laser safety glasses have side shields to protect from this radiation being bounced off walls or some other surface.
Maybe it is not sufficient to damage your 5D Mk III but it can damage your eyes and than you won't need your 5D Mk III.
Lasers are not toys and probably should not be treated as such. I know the laser shows are way cool but caution is in order.

Are you talking about scatter? You realize that laser light, inherently, is radiation, right? It's what the "R" stands for in LASER. You realize that visible light is radiation?

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

ebiggs1 — Thu, 02 May 2013 16:08:22 GMT

No, I actually mean "radiation". Industrial lasers can be so powerful that even the defused radition from a reflective surface can be hazardous to the eye. It is not something to mess with as it can happen very quickly and the individual not even realize it until too late. There is no such thing as a perfect laser beam. Now you may want to not believe me, you can go with what you belive to be so. You are certainly free to take the chance. The choice is yours.

A little studying up on lasers may change your mind.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Thu, 02 May 2013 16:55:36 GMT

Thanks, guys--I sure appreciate the input. I will confess I only wanted the price to scare the band--as in, I'll do this if you'll indemnify my loss which could be up to $XXXX.

I think I'll leave the question open a while, hoping for news of anyone who's actually incurred damage in the last year or so. I did a google search, of course, and mostly found a single incident of a Mk II being damaged in about '08. There was also an older story of an expensive pro videocam being ruined. You know how those things get passed on and on; everyone loves a scare story and hey, it IS **bleep** scary so it's worth repeating. But I've been wondering why there's nothing more recent. Has something changed? Where those flukes?

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

HDCamTeam — Thu, 02 May 2013 18:04:17 GMT

@FrankR wrote:
Can the laser show used by my local bar band really destroy the sensor in my Canon 5D3? I did a web search and found lots of references to a case about a 5D2 a few years ago, but there's been nothing since. Was that a fluke or do I really risk my cameras shooting a bar band for free? And if so. . .what does a new sensor cost?

For anyone in the forum who shoots bands with laser shows. . .what I've read says you can be safe if you work it out with the guy who programs the show, and stand in some designated safe zone where the laser will not go. Sounds scary to me.

Here's a pic; they're a Judas Priest tribute band in San Diego, Hellbent. Great music, great show. Camera settings were f/2.8, 1/160th, 6400 ISO with a 24-70 or 70-200 (I used both and forget which this was). You can see the lasers were coming dangerously close to me.

Hi,

Laser beams may not only damage your camera sensor, but also and much more important: your eyes.

There are safety regulations, but unfortunately not always respected...

We have poste a thorough report about Laser beams, Sensors & Safety:

Report: CMOS & CCD Cameras Damaged by Laser

Hope this really helps!

Regards

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

ebiggs1 — Thu, 02 May 2013 18:38:06 GMT

I am going to repeat this just because I know the potential for irreversible eye damage.

"It is not something to mess with as it can happen very quickly and the individual not even realize it until too late."

When you are getting defused laser light, it is not readily apparent.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

hsbn — Thu, 02 May 2013 18:46:02 GMT

The thing is nobody stupid enough to try it after 08. Maybe someday the guys from DigitalRev will test it but I don't want to test on mine for sure.

I don't know the cost, but the 5DMII sensor (party only) is selling around $1000. I think the 5DM3 will cost more and labor + Canon mark up, it will cost around the price of Refurbished 5DM3 roughly $2500. Just my guess, but I think it will be around that price.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Thu, 02 May 2013 19:09:41 GMT

Wow--those videos are pretty **bleep** convincing. Thanks for the link, and for the info. I think I've shot my last laser show. . .and I'm glad I just got lucky and didn't destroy my camera's sensors.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Thu, 02 May 2013 19:14:40 GMT

Thanks for the price info, hsbn. That'll be useful when the band insists it's perfectly safe. As for nobody being stupid enough to try it since '08. . .well, here's one guy who was! Although I'd like to think it was more ignorance and even naivity; I never gave a thought that a public show like that could be dangerous to the audience or to cameras. Live and learn.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

Skirball — Thu, 02 May 2013 20:26:25 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
No, I actually mean "radiation". Industrial lasers can be so powerful that even the defused radition from a reflective surface can be hazardous to the eye. It is not something to mess with as it can happen very quickly and the individual not even realize it until too late. There is no such thing as a perfect laser beam. Now you may want to not believe me, you can go with what you belive to be so. You are certainly free to take the chance. The choice is yours.
A little studying up on lasers may change your mind.

I guess I still don’t understand what you mean by “radiation”; it sounds like you’re talking about scattering or just a reflected laser. Do you have any literature you can point me to? I would love to do a little ‘studying up’. I admit that I’m no expert with lasers, but I have done a bit of work with YAG, argon, xenon, and little HeNe lasers. I don’t know of any other kind of radiation from a laser other than its own reflection, which of course is just more electromagnetic radiation. Are you suggesting that lasers can create ionizing radiation of some sort? Are you manufacturing some sort of Death Ray, eBiggs?

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

tallrob — Fri, 03 May 2013 08:38:27 GMT

Are you sure they're using actual lasers? If so, that's pretty irresponsible. But I bet they're not. Most of these indoor "laser" shows are actually high tech light shows using filters, refractors and gobos to xenon lights into patterns. Lasers are only necessary for outdoor shows where the beams need to travel long distances.

If they're using real lasers you should ask them to check if that's actually permitted. They could get into trouble.

Re: Can the laser show my local bar band uses damage my Canon 5d3 sensor? Any new data?

FrankR — Fri, 03 May 2013 15:20:56 GMT

Well, the band calls it a laser show. I checked the website of one of the bigger music supply houses; they sell things called "laser effect" devices but yeah, they contain 10mW lasers (or some other power). So I'm guessing that's what they're using. Unfortunately.