topic Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:21:41 GMT

Hi everybody,

Now that Canon has officially released firmware 1.2.1 for EOS 5D Mark III, it would be GREAT to share experiences about the new performance.

Especially regarding the clean HDMI 4:2:2 8bit output, since it's the most important and innovative feature.

PLEASE share your tests and reviews with external recording vs. in-camera recording and also post full details, so we can all evaluate the results.

Thanks a lot in adavance.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Wed, 01 May 2013 03:10:29 GMT

After some tests, on the external Uncompressed HDMI 4:2:2 8 bit recording vs. in-camera recording we found:

Tested at 24p - Results of external recording:

- Some noticeable green cast

- Slight gamma shift

- No audio recording

- No increase in resolution

Does somebody else found similar results?

Comments:

- It's a real pity that we can't record audio from the HDMI output, since it means we must sync everything in post! (and Atomos Ninja 2 does not display any audio level of course)

- We all expected an increase in resolution. How can it be possible that the uncompressed HDMI output delivers same/equivalent resolution to the compressed in-camera recording?

- Still not sure about 50/60p recording capabilities. The menu tells 24p or 50/60i. Not big deal for many, but very important for LOT of people shooting regional PAL/NTSC video.

Please post your feedback, findings and recommendations.

Regards

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

mikequill — Wed, 01 May 2013 04:22:14 GMT

Hi,

I am using my 5D Mark III with the Black Magic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 and I can't figure out how to get the camera to automatically trigger the deck to record.

Is anyone else having this problem.

Thanks,
Mike

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

InFrame — Wed, 01 May 2013 13:50:23 GMT

Hello Canon,

I have been using Canon gear for a long time. As a video operator originally with the Canon XL2 and many many other cameras including film cameras F-1new and digital 400D, 20D, 5D and now the 5DIII. I had high hopes with this camera...

With the fast pace and changes in cameras and others now dominating the market I have lost that zeal with being a part of Canon... I feel ripped off... I'm beyond dissapointed with the simple and deliberate of missing features I.e Audio out with HDMI to be part of the firmware update. What's next.. Unfortunately you have forced many of us customers to abandon ship because its a sinking ship for many of us that can't compete with others offering better quality and value for money in comparison to other camera brands... Thanks for the SUPPORT really.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

DPted — Wed, 01 May 2013 20:36:43 GMT

I tested 5D3 firmware ver. 1.2.1 with my Sound Devices Pix 240 external recorder. Yes, there is clean video via HDMI while maintaining the use of the camera LCD. Thanks a very nice improvement for monitoring. As far a getting a high quality, more gradeable 4:2:2 video through HDMI, I have not yet made a critical comparison. I can confirm there is a 6 frames (.25 second delay at 24p) to the PIx 240... resulting in the need to delay audio by 254 milliseconds on the Pix 240 analog audio inputs.

What I have tested is disappointing. NO embedded AUDIO on HDMI. Very clever trick Canon. It seems obvious to me that you (Canon) are protecting the C-100 market. I know you can say "You wanted clean HDMI, we GAVE YOU clean HDMI. Now you want embedded AUDIO too?! What do you expect for free?" I find the exclusion of embedded audio an insult to the users of this camera / loyal customers who rely heavily on the video features. Go ahead a plead ignorance but it's ridiculous not to activate audio along with the clean video.

Canon, if you are trying to drive the DSLR market to more expensive solutions, you are likely going to be successful. It's just that many of us will be considering Sony and Black Magic vs. C-100 and C-300.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

Proverb-Child — Thu, 02 May 2013 05:34:41 GMT

With these observations about the much awaited catch up with Nikon d800, I will not be upgrading to new firmware but to another brand unless we get an official explanation from Canon or find these observations to be erroneous.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

tbruegg — Thu, 02 May 2013 10:00:45 GMT

@mikequill wrote:
Hi,

I am using my 5D Mark III with the Black Magic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 and I can't figure out how to get the camera to automatically trigger the deck to record.

Is anyone else having this problem.

Thanks,
Mike

yes, i think the Hyperdeck supports this feature only on sdi inputs, mine is not reacting either.

and no audio in HDMI is very disapointing.... time to move on....

Thomas

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

ConniptionFilms — Thu, 02 May 2013 14:43:15 GMT

I usually keep quiet about these things, never posting, but always reading in order to ensure that I am taking in a wide range of perspectives. Nor am I loyal to any single brand, but as just about every single post out there has stated since the 30th (and even before with the leaked version): this update is so baffling, pathetic, and insulting for everyone outside of nature photography that I don't know how Canon hasn't issued an official response/apology and actually look us in the face. How could this update have even taken six months to develop??? If Canon intends to remain relevant for what has been a very loyal customer base for video outside of its C series, and for those of us who use these cameras for stills and video, it will simply have to do better. There are cheaper cameras out there today with more options, better resolution and they are coming out faster than Canon can develop a simple crappy firmware update. You can put lipstick on a pig (i.e.call it a 4:2:2 clean uncompressed HDMI out) but its still a pig (i.e. 4:2:0 8bit unimpressive image and NO AUDIO). In short, thanks for nothing. What makes this truly insulting, though, is that we know this camera is capable of so much more. It's like a perfect methaphor for so much that is wrong in this country socio-politically: Promise great things, delivery little to none of them, but just enough to be able to say that you did something and pat yourself on the back. I gotta say, it's kinda shameful.

So, it may not be time yet to rejoice in sometthing like the Black Magic cameras themselves, but its the direction of the company that I find truly promising -- offerring something the consumer actually wants at a price point that is more than fair.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

rainbowsofwhite — Fri, 03 May 2013 01:25:59 GMT

"I feel very disappointed" 😞

I never leave comments on discussion boards, but I signed up just to do so.

I'm a filmmaking student and spent my hard earned money on a Canon 5D Mark III only 4 months ago. ($3500 is a lot of money for a student!!)

Now I feel like my money should have been saved and spent on something like the Blackmagic.

Should I sell my 5D now?

Please Canon, if you could greatly improve the overall image quality with HDMI 4:2:2 8 bit output then I will stay a loyal customer.

.......otherwise...I don't know what I'm going to do....eBay?

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

CharlesF — Fri, 03 May 2013 09:57:41 GMT

No Audio through HDMI ? No Quality improvement whatsoever? Touted as an upcoming feature for over a year??

Literally this has been a slapped together update that has not had an ounce of thought or quality put toward it for the DSLR filmmaker / journalists / 5Dmk3 owners who were hoping to achieve better quality video out of there DSLRS.

Seriously Canon, You have so much potential and yet you insist on crippling your products like this does you no favours.

There are a huge number of filmmakers + videographers+journalists and media that helped fuel sales of the 5dmk2 that you provided decent firmware for over time and allowed the camera to a much more powerful tool.

So here we are 4 years since you added manual control to the 5Dmk2... and we get this, a half working - pointless HDMI live feed out that not only offers no noticeable difference in image quality - but as some are reporting actually degrades it ( and with no audio as of 03/05/13 ).

Understandably you want to try and protect your Cinema EOS line - but you must understand - offering half working firmware like this on what could have been a potentially groundbreaking camera is not only damaging your brand by offering sub-par low quality features - but is actively driving away Canon customers.

If you want any chance of redemption by the masses without making this firmware update look like a joke:

1) Fix the HDMI output so audio works + correct any image issues.

2) Offer a better recording codec that will imrpove the quality (resolution/color/dr) of video recordings internally or at least improve the HDMI output to offer a higher bitrate / cleaner output than the internal files.

Lastly, some advice on your 1DC:

Make your EOS 1DC shoot to prores (422/ 422LT) internally + improve the resolution of the1080p / 1080p50 video (soft in its current form) + add 1080p120 if possible and charge $7999 for it and watch how much money you make.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Fri, 03 May 2013 21:29:14 GMT

@CharlesF wrote:
No Audio through HDMI ? No Quality improvement whatsoever? Touted as an upcoming feature for over a year??

Literally this has been a slapped together update that has not had an ounce of thought or quality put toward it for the DSLR filmmaker / journalists / 5Dmk3 owners who were hoping to achieve better quality video out of there DSLRS.

Seriously Canon, You have so much potential and yet you insist on crippling your products like this does you no favours.
There are a huge number of filmmakers + videographers+journalists and media that helped fuel sales of the 5dmk2 that you provided decent firmware for over time and allowed the camera to a much more powerful tool.

So here we are 4 years since you added manual control to the 5Dmk2... and we get this, a half working - pointless HDMI live feed out that not only offers no noticeable difference in image quality - but as some are reporting actually degrades it ( and with no audio as of 03/05/13 ).

Understandably you want to try and protect your Cinema EOS line - but you must understand - offering half working firmware like this on what could have been a potentially groundbreaking camera is not only damaging your brand by offering sub-par low quality features - but is actively driving away Canon customers.

If you want any chance of redemption by the masses without making this firmware update look like a joke:

1) Fix the HDMI output so audio works + correct any image issues.

2) Offer a better recording codec that will improve the quality (resolution/color/dr) of video recordings internally or at least improve the HDMI output to offer a higher bitrate / cleaner output than the internal files.

Sadly, we agree with you.

Sadly because we are also disappointed of this update. The 5D Mark 3 has HUGE potential inside.

IT IS ALREADY an amazing camera, but it CAN deliver so much more...

We really hope that Canon improves it. Despite it's logical they want to "protect" the EOS C line, they are targets for different segments.

Improving the 5D3 (a $3,200 body-only camera) can push sales a lot and benefit not only the community, but of course the manufacturer for sure, as the 5D Mark 2 has already proven. Especially now that there is much more competition (which some are offering many more features at lower price).

This update generated HUGE expectation on Canon community, but does not seem to be at the expected level.

Again, we really hope Canon improves this great camera even further, they would certainly sell even lot more.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

dead5d — Sat, 04 May 2013 04:25:59 GMT

Hi, Canon.
Your consummer is not that uncontious as you may think.
As a long time canon user I'am realy disappointed with your marketing and your attitude towards the client.
Here are some links to the firmware tests http://vimeo.com/65205491 http://vimeo.com/65276093
But most important thing are the comments that people do on this video tests.
Now I'am in the process making an upgrade of the video gear, and definitely it is not going to be canon.
Blackmagic 4k or Nikon can be much better option for me. And all of my colleagues are going the same way.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

moebius — Sat, 04 May 2013 07:09:00 GMT

A longtime lurker who has been similarly moved to post here. I purchased a field recorder weeks in advance of the firmware update in anticipation of all the proclaimed benefits of having a clean HDMI output. Having run a few basic tests, I can corroborate what everyone else is saying about the quality of external recordings -- there's absolutely no discernible difference in sharpness when compared against the in-camera recordings.

Very disappointing indeed.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

helalwi — Sat, 04 May 2013 19:43:52 GMT

I'd like to have the Info and the Q-buttons merged. It makes no sense to have 2 buttons.

Best regards, Alex

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Mon, 06 May 2013 03:51:46 GMT

@helalwi wrote:
Hi

I'd like to have the Info and the Q-buttons merged. It makes no sense to have 2 buttons.

Best regards, Alex

Hi Alex and welcome!

Thanks for your input, but unfortunately it's out of topic since we're talking about the firmware 1.2.1, not the camera buttons design and distribution.

What we really need is an improvement on the RESOLUTION and overall quality of the recorded video. We expected it on the new firmware with the external uncompressed HDMI 4:2:2 8bit, but since it's not any noticeable resolution improvement on it, it would be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED if Canon could improve it on the in-camera video recording.

So far, the reason of buying an external video recorded could be to get ProRes or Avid already coded files. BUT considering the almost non existant difference in Image Quality between external vs. in-camera recording it is not really a big deal for most users.

Also considering the fact that the external recording does not capture Audio, has a green cast and gama/luma shift (AND Audio delay/latency when using external audio recorder, as reported by some users -not tested by us yet)

The "Mirrored" feature is a very welcome feature indeed, but it would be EXTREMELY appreciated by Canon users community if they improve the in-camera video resolution and codec performance. It is possible to do.

Additionally Canon could add Audio recording on the HDMI output and fix the gama/luma shift as well as the green cast (AND possible audio latency on external audio recorders via headphones output).

As side note, we already know the 5D Mark III is capable of video features like Peaking, but we still wonder if it's not really capable of 1080p60 for Full HD slow motion...

THAT would really be a HUGE improvement and would be worldwide appreciated indeed. Such improvement would really increase sales on this camera.. Another manufacturer is already offering DSLR with 1080p60 recording capability, can't really Canon do it on the EOS 5D Mark III?

We really hope Canon Managers and people in charge read these threads and consider further firmware improvements for this amazing camera which can deliver so much more...

Regards.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

dead5d — Tue, 07 May 2013 04:44:14 GMT

Well, hdmi could have handle better the highlight recovery or highlight roll off. But it makes the opposite, it crashes the highlights...
There is no any extra room for post processing the footage.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Thu, 09 May 2013 00:47:30 GMT

We've seen the results from what ML can deliver (so far just less than a second of video) and it is SO HUGE AND AMAZING! Both in terms of resolution and dynamic range. It's really like RAW footage.

If Canon improved the firmware at least a bit to get more resolution and dynamic range on video, using the DNG technique (or similar one), the 5D Mark III could even compete with the BMCC!!

And of course sales would easily jump astronomically.

For all of us who use Canon 5D Mark III for stills AND video, this would be HUGE indeed. We'd certainly buy another 5D3 body for filmmaking if that happened, simply because of a higher use of the enormous potential this camera has inside and the better results achieved and delivered to final users.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

peterphipp — Mon, 27 May 2013 17:48:58 GMT

I am just about to buy a mark3 but the update does not make it worth spending money before Canon bring out a change in the internal codec. Why can you not offer either ProRes or even MPG 2 (like the XF305). Jpg compression artifacts limit this cameras possibilities. ML raw seems a few months away but actually I dont need RAW. I just want a good clean image at 1080P, with no blocky blue skies.

Re: 5D3 Firmware 1.2.1 - TESTS & COMMENTS

HDCamTeam — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:07:00 GMT

@peterphipp wrote:
I am just about to buy a mark3 but the update does not make it worth spending money before Canon bring out a change in the internal codec. Why can you not offer either ProRes or even MPG 2 (like the XF305). Jpg compression artifacts limit this cameras possibilities. ML raw seems a few months away but actually I dont need RAW. I just want a good clean image at 1080P, with no blocky blue skies.

100% agree with you.

Canon can definitely improve in-camera recording using an enhanced codec. There's lot of processing power and speed available for faster data rates too.

Lot of people don't need RAW video, but definitely MOST people need: Higher Resolution, Hiigher Dynamic Range and Less Codec Artifacts.

That is completely possible with current hardware... It's only a matter of firmware improvement

Let's hope Canon Product Managers go one step ahead and let the Canon Firmware team improves the video quality at least on high-end DSLRs including the 5D Mark III.

Regards