topic Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:05 GMT

I am a graphic designer with a lot of experience in the studio but I now find myself needing to do my own product shots in my home studio space of 12' x 12.' I am looking hard at the Canon 7D moving up from 40D and I need to know the best lens or lenses to shoot items such as rifles, glassware, china, and small housewares, etc. I will also need to purchase either soft boxes or umbrellas and am looking for advise on this issue as well. Photos will be used for e-commerce and possibly for catalogs. All comments appreciated!

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

HDCamTeam — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 04:34:47 GMT

@Amscot56 wrote:
I am a graphic designer with a lot of experience in the studio but I now find myself needing to do my own product shots in my home studio space of 12' x 12.' I am looking hard at the Canon 7D moving up from 40D and I need to know the best lens or lenses to shoot items such as rifles, glassware, china, and small housewares, etc. I will also need to purchase either soft boxes or umbrellas and am looking for advise on this issue as well. Photos will be used for e-commerce and possibly for catalogs. All comments appreciated!

Hi,

This is not an easy question that can be answered with a short reply, but here there are some items you might find helpful:

LENSES:

Considering the 1.6x crop factor of your EOS 7D, I think a Canon 50mm 1.4 USM should be fine for many of your shots, assuming you have enough space in your room and the item is not too large, otherwise you should go wider to EF 35mm f/2.0 IS USM or the more expensive EF 35mm f/1.4L USM

Of course, if you want a wider range of focal lengths to work with and lot more versatility, then you might want a Caon EF 24-70 2.8L II USM (our favorite) which has excellent sharpness and IQ, but it's more expensive. It's not so "fast" compared to the above, but in studio conditions you'll probably won't use faster apertures than f/2.8 or f/4

The advantage of these lenses compared to EF-S ones, is that if you switch to a full frame camera in future, you will be able to use them as well without any issues. Good investments in our opinion.

LIGHT STANDS & ACCESSORIES:

These are some cheap but very nice built quality stands & accessories that won't hurt your budget:

- Impact - Air-Cushioned Heavy Duty Light Stand - Black,9.5' (2.9m)

- Impact - Telescopic Collapsible Reflector Holder

- Impact - Umbrella Bracket with Adjustable Shoe

- Impact - Umbrella - White Translucent (43")

- Impact - Convertible Umbrella - White Satin with Removable Black Backing - 45"

Of course there are lot of other options, but these ones have worked pretty good for us, considering their price.

You can also attach softbox, etc.

Hope this helps!

Regards

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:18:26 GMT

Thanks for your comments. I didn't realize that the Canon 7D was a crop body. I might want to spring for the 6D body and pair with a lens I will use if I decide to move up from my current 40D. What would you think about the 40D as a studio camera? I currently only have the standard zoom kit lens. Some comments suggest a 100mm but it seems to long a focal length for studio work.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

hsbn — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:46:52 GMT

I have used the 30D for years for studio work. It works great. The 40D is even better. In studio, you are in a controlled-lighting situation so crop or full frame doesn't really matter much. IMHO, I think the TS-E lens is the best for product photography since you can precisely control the Depth of Field. With TS-E lens you can make photo that you cannot make with other lens unless you do DOF stacking. The drawback is TS-E doesn't have auto focus but shooting in studio on tripod for products, you should use Manual focus with live view anyway.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:59:18 GMT

I would stick with Crop unless you have other reasons to go Full Frame. Crop gets a bad rap. High ISO is where it truly fails, most other areas are more subjective, depending on your needs. If you’re doing product photography you’re going to be using studio lighting, so you can shoot low ISO and you’ll be fine. I would invest in lenses way before a new camera. If you start blowing up product shots to 20” x 30” then maybe look at upgrading, but for anything less you’re 40D will be just fine with decent glass and lighting skills. It won’t hold you back for e-commerce at all.

First things I’d get, no question about it, is the 100mm Macro (non-L). It will knock your socks off. It was the first time I remember being blown away by the ability of a lens. It’s so good you’ll get frustrated over the dust and hairs and whatnot that show up on your picks that you either have to re-do or fix in post.

It’s a tight lens on a crop, so it may not be wide enough for something like a rifle, but you can always move it back, or just get a decent wide-angle. I know the 50mm 1.4 was mentioned, but I have to disagree. It’s fine if you’re using it for portraiture, but I can never get mine to come close to the sharpness of my macro lens. Really the 100mm should be fine for just about anything if you’re doing plain background product shots. The only reason you need a different focal length is to give a different FOV relative to a background. Still, it can’t hurt to have a 50 and maybe a 35 in the arsenal.

I’m also going to have to disagree with the 24-70 II. Yes, it’s an amazing lens, but at $2500 I think it’s a silly suggestion for someone looking at getting into product photography. I know, it’s the internet, everyone needs a 5d3. 600RT and the 24-70 II. Get a couple of decent primes and you’ll be just fine for product photography. There’s going to be enough hidden costs in the rabbit hole known as off-camera flash. Enjoy, it’s a lot of fun.

Edit: I meant to mention Tilt Shift, but looks like HSBN got it. If you're going to drop a lot of cash on a lens for product photography, that's where to do it. But first just spend some time learning lighting and enjoying the 100mm Macro.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

ebiggs1 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:05:16 GMT

Your 40D and the 7D are the same 1.6x crop. So if you are happy with the 40D the 7D will show the same thing. By all means the 7D is the way to go.

However, in a 12 x 12 foot area, a crop camera may not be best. I am not a fan of the 6D, so I would suggest the 5D Mk III or if money is an issue the 5D Mk II (used).

If you are photographing objects for ads, you need a lot of light. A lot of light! You also need back drops, table and stands.

Of course the nominal 24-70mm f2.8 II and 70-200mm f2.8 II are going to just about cover anything you need.

Another choice would by thw 24-105mm f4 IS.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

ebiggs1 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:08:46 GMT

Oh, and of coures Photo Shop. Not Light Romm but full Photo Shop or even CS6.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:25:42 GMT

I am leaning toward staying with the 40D and investing in lenses. One question to "Skirball": Why did you not recommend an "L" lens in the 100mm macro besides the price? Also will I be better off with a few primes than going with zoom lenses in the L series?

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:28:48 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Oh, and of coures Photo Shop. Not Light Romm but full Photo Shop or even CS6.

Your advice continues to amaze and confuse me. Can you elaborate on why Light Room isn't sufficient for product photography? And you realize that CS6 is Photoshop, right?

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:31:52 GMT

Photoshop is not an issue since I subscribe to Creative Cloud and have LR and PS CS6 installed.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:38:39 GMT

@Amscot56 wrote:
I am leaning toward staying with the 40D and investing in lenses. One question to "Skirball": Why did you not recommend an "L" lens in the 100mm macro besides the price? Also will I be better off with a few primes than going with zoom lenses in the L series?

Only because of price. I seem to be one of the few people around here that doesn't insist that you need top of the line everything without any reasoning on why. If you're budget is infinite, then sure, but if you have a set amount of money I'd recommend getting 2 lenses instead of spending double on the L, in this case:

The 100L adds image stabilization, which is nice if you're chasing around bugs for macros, but it won't help on product photography. I get the feeling that you're buying this for company use, not a photographer that will be using it for personal use on weekends? If you're not using the IS, then the increased IQ of the L isn't worth the cost difference. The non-L is seriously good. I'd argue it's one of the best non-L lenses that Canon makes, and it's one of the best deals they sell. All I'm saying, don't underestimate it because it doesn't have a red ring.

I really don't think you need zooms for product photography. You simply move your camera/subject to get the perspective you want. For a lot of product photography it won't even matter. Primes are cheaper, sharper, and won't hold you back with static subjects.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:40:39 GMT

@Amscot56 wrote:
Photoshop is not an issue since I subscribe to Creative Cloud and have LR and PS CS6 installed.

Nice. Photoshop is good for fixing blemishes, and removing feet nubs or supports or something if you have too, but most the stuff you can easily do in LR. The better I get with product photography the less I use PS.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:54:29 GMT

What do you make of the suggestion to go with a tilt and shift lens? Also, so on the cropped 40D the 100mm lens ends up being a 160mm fixed lens right?

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

hsbn — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:14:03 GMT

45mm TS-E lens are perfect for 40D for product shot (in my case). But TS-E lens has a learning curve, so if you can rent it to test out, I think you should before putting down the $.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:14:06 GMT

@Amscot56 wrote:
What do you make of the suggestion to go with a tilt and shift lens? Also, so on the cropped 40D the 100mm lens ends up being a 160mm fixed lens right?

Answering in reverse order:

Yes, it's 160, but so what? That number only means something if you're used to shooting Full Frame and have a vision in your head of what 100mm is suppose to look like. For macro photography (or any small objects you may be shooting) the extra distance is a good thing. The 100mm lens can focus up to 6" in front of the lens - it can get tough to fit decent lighting in there. The only down side is if you have very cramped space to shoot in. I mostly shoot in my spare bedroom and can always make it work, but some times I'm dancing around tables, light stands, tripods, modifiers, and the like.

Tilt shifts are pretty cool, but they’re not cheap, and they have some drawbacks. They’re also not a panacea as many mistakenly believe they are until they actually use them. I’ll discuss my thoughts on them below, but for the quick answer: wait. You need a good macro lens regardless, and the 100mm is a fraction of the cost of a tilt shift. Get one, get the lighting, learn how to use it, and upgrade if and when you find your lens just aren’t doing what you want them to do.

Tilt shift has its place in product photography, but it’s not a necessity, IMHO. In full disclosure, I haven’t used them for product photography, only Architectural. Even there, I can come close to what they can do with normal lenses and some post processing. For product photography the feature most use them for is the extra control over depth of field. It becomes a real boon on small objects (the razor thin DoF). As mentioned above, you can do focus stacking, but it’s time consuming. The Tilt Shift lets you ‘tilt’ the focal plane to something more advantageous to your composition. It’s a complex subject I won’t discuss here, but it’s a useful technique with some limitations. Again, I’d recommend you wait until stumble against that wall before worrying about it. If you get yourself a macro lens and some off camera lighting you’re going to open up a whole new world of photography to learn and explore. Don’t try to bite off too much at once. Trust me, macro lens, a decent wide angle prime, and some lighting – you can do some amazing product photography.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

hsbn — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:41:20 GMT

Agree with Skirball, in product photography lightning is much more important than lens/camera anyway.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 20:20:55 GMT

This is really good stuff. I am grateful for all of your responses. "A decent wide angle prime lens" could you give me a suggestion here. Also I've been looking a lighting tents, some come with lighting combos left right and top. What is a good brand? I would need to add in some real surfaces for some or most products like weathered boards. Last question: about how far away would a 100mm (160mm) put me from subject focal point? Also I would need a good deal of flexiblility in focal length which I assume could be adjusted by stopping the lens down or opening it up.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

hsbn — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:09:34 GMT

You can build your own light tent. It's not that hard.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Skirball — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:11:08 GMT

Well, the 50mm is a classic size. I have both the 50/1.8 and 50/1.4, and I can’t say I love either. The 1.4 is OK, but I find myself trying to love it. But that’s for portrait use. For your use the only reason you’ll need something besides the 100mm is if something is so big that you can’t fit it in given your room size, or if you need to change the relation of two objects relative to each other (getting in close with a 50 will make the other object look small compared to with the 100). Canon makes an old 50mm macro, and a 60mm macro that might be worth looking at. Another option, and I haven’t tried it, is the new Canon 40mm STM. Suppose to be a great lens, very sharp, and it’s only $200. For that little of a price I’d almost say it’s a no brainer. Don’t spend a lot of money on a second lens you’re not sure you’ll even need yet.

As far as distance and focal point, you’re confusing me a bit here. I think you’re mixing up terms. The focal length just determines the field of view. The 100mm can focus as close as 6”, which is really close. But it can focus on an object at any distance. Which is why I said the initial suggestions for a zoom makes no sense. Put your subject on the table, and move the camera to wherever you need to get it perfectly in frame. Piece of cake. Stopping the lens down or opening it up will only change your depth of field (assuming you add/subtract more light to maintain exposure). For product photography you’ll want to keep this high to keep as much in focus as possible. Just remember that if you go too high the images get soft from diffraction. I like f12 – f16 on mine.

One more thing, if you’re itching to drop some money on something get a good tripod and head. Seriously. I did the typical upgrade procedure from super cheap, moderately cheap, to a decent Manfrotto and ball head instead of just listening to advice and buying something decent to start. Product photography takes a lot of nudging this way or that and a cheap head will drive you crazy. Get something where you can set your composition and lock it down without it moving. Don’t skimp here.

Re: Need professional advise for product photography lens for Canon 7D

Amscot56 — Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:30:56 GMT

On "focal length" what I meant to ask is can the camera be relatively close to subject such as peeping through a tent opening? or would it be across the room? I got an old Bogen tripod from my dad. It seems good and is barely used. I also really like the idea of the 40mm lens which would be (64mm). You will have to bare with me on this comparison because I got my training in the film world so it makes more sense to me to convert to what I know.