topic Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

pvk — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:09:10 GMT

Hi everyone,

You can use Exposure Compensation in Av, Tv, or P Mode to slightly adjust the exposure that the camera is selecting. In Av mode, you fix Av and ISO, the camera selects the shutter speed with the correction from the overcompensation.

In M mode with Auto ISO, I really don't understand why the Exposure Compensation is not present. In M mode, I would like to fix apperture, shutter speed, and use Auto ISO to do the last fine tuning, but here I can't select Exposure Compensation.

I guess this comes from the days where you had to fix the ISO in the low 100 to 400, but now you have so much more room to play with this, having Exposure Compensation with Auto ISO would really help me. I now usually manually set the ISO to overexpose and check the histogram, but camera could help me with slight changes in lighting if I could use Auto ISO.

PvK

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

cicopo — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:23:03 GMT

To the best of my knowledge EC doesn't work on any Canon body when in M. I would assume the idea that the photographer is in charge of all settings is why they've gone that route. We choose what we think will do the job & fine tune with a shot or 2 either side of that first setting. Shooting in RAW gives us even more control re the exposure after the fact but it can't change the effect of the shutter speed or aperture on the image.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

pvk — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:27:41 GMT

That is what I thought Cicopo.

My argument is to change that, in Auto ISO mode, I have even more control when I could have EC.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

cicopo — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:29:41 GMT

But aren't they conflicting terms? Auto & manual are opposites. Full manual should be just that so we choose every setting & not just most. Just my opinion of course but it is based on what I was taught. Shooting in full manual removes any & all variables that we may not think to reset.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

Skirball — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:12:26 GMT

@cicopo wrote:
But aren't they conflicting terms? Auto & manual are opposites. Full manual should be just that so we choose every setting & not just most. Just my opinion of course but it is based on what I was taught. Shooting in full manual removes any & all variables that we may not think to reset.

Sure, that's fine, but you're arguing semantics. What do you call shooting in M with Auto-ISO? Because you can do that, you just have no control over what the camera uses as a baseline to choose the ISO.

I've never used Auto ISO before getting a 6D, but I've found it handy. If I'm in a situation where I want a specific DOF, and I need a minimum shutter speed, the Auto ISO can be really helpful if there are varied lighting conditions. I just want to set the EC down 2/3 a stop. I don't care if I can't tell people I'm shooting in full manual; I don't care what it's called... it'd be a useful feature that seems so easy to implement.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

hsbn — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:04:08 GMT

They should disable AUTO ISO in M mode. Problem solved. M mode should be manual.

If you want to maintain certain DOF, shutter speed and using auto ISO, then use Av mode. Auto ISO let you set minimum shutter speed to maintain.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

pvk — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:04:15 GMT

@hsbn wrote:
They should disable AUTO ISO in M mode. Problem solved.

Not sure which problem that solves, as you can already fix the ISO to any setting. Auto ISO gives you the ability to fix both apperture and shutter speed and have Auto ISO deal with fast changing light conditions.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

hsbn — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:05:56 GMT

You can use Av mode since Auto ISO let you maintain certain shutter speed.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

cicopo — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:14:43 GMT

I rarely shoot in M but when I do I don't want the camera to have any say in the settings I've dialed in. All I want from it is the capture to card. I have been using Auto ISO but recently had it over ride my chosen ISO setting for some flash photography. I hadn't expected it to do that & I think I'm going to reset the camera to no longer allow the ISO shift even though it's been handy shooting R/C events.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

Skirball — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:36:13 GMT

@hsbn wrote:
They should disable AUTO ISO in M mode. Problem solved. M mode should be manual.
If you want to maintain certain DOF, shutter speed and using auto ISO, then use Av mode. Auto ISO let you set minimum shutter speed to maintain.

I love how the talk of Manual mode brings out the elitist in people. Elitists with their dSLRs with light meters, instant image viewing, RAW post-process corrections, and everything else. But Manual is Manual. Your suggestion is assinine.; it offers no usefulness, it only would limit the abilities of the camera further. Why do you care if people use this mode? Fine, it's not Full Manual, but who cares what it's called? It's a useful setting. I find it comical that you're arguing using Av mode, which is similar but more limiting than what we're discussing, yet you think Auto ISO should be disabled.

Your suggestion to use Av is a compromise at most. I almost always have a DoF in mind when I compose a shot, so I always choose my aperture. If shutter speed isn't a concern and there are variable light conditions then I'll use Av; but for static situations I'd usually go Manual. But there are times when I need to control my speed too - usually if I'm shooting hand held in low light conditions I want to make sure I don't go below 1/60 or so. Or, if I'm shooting moving subjects I'll want to be higher, maybe a minimum of 1/150 - 1/250, depending on subject speed. My go to would be manual, but if I'm shooting moving subjects in a variable light situation why would I not use Auto-ISO? For the pride of saying I shot full manual? If I have a setting that allow me to walk away with significantly more keepers you better believe I'm going to use it.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

hsbn — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:39:25 GMT

Nah, I don't believe in the stuff that you are better if you shoot manual. I couldn't care less what mode you use as long as you get good result. I just offer you an alternative in a mean time.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

pvk — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:58:58 GMT

hsbn, thanks for offering your alternative in the mean time. I tried it, but it does not work the way I need it. When you choose Av mode combined with Auto ISO, the camera tries to find a compromise between shutter speed and ISO, favoring low ISO with an exposure time that it thinks you can still hand held.

But when I want to shoot a flying bird, I want a wide apperture for best DOF, and a high shutter speed to freeze the movement. Because of the sky contrast, I need a +1 or more exposure compensation.

I now do that in manual mode, including manual ISO, take a picture and look at the histogram, then decide what my ISO setting should be for the actual picture. When the light conditions change slightly, I have to do that again.

It works, but I think it would be more convenient if I can set the EC. It seems a simple firmware change.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

hsbn — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 18:14:38 GMT

I just re-read about Auto ISO in manual mode on Canon website and found this information. I will play with it later to see. But it could be the answer you are looking for

"In Manual exposure mode, a pre-set shutter speed and lens aperture can be continually maintained, even if the light changes. This allows the photographer to have full control over stopping motion and depth-of-field, while still allow the camera to react to any changes in light (this could be ideal in remote-controlled or intervalometer shooting). A very handy, yet underutilized, feature is the ability to apply AE Lock when working with Auto ISO in Manual mode. The viewfinder will show the difference between the locked value and the current metered value. "

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

schmegg — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:45:09 GMT

@hsbn wrote:
I just re-read about Auto ISO in manual mode on Canon website and found this information. I will play with it later to see. But it could be the answer you are looking for

"In Manual exposure mode, a pre-set shutter speed and lens aperture can be continually maintained, even if the light changes. This allows the photographer to have full control over stopping motion and depth-of-field, while still allow the camera to react to any changes in light (this could be ideal in remote-controlled or intervalometer shooting). A very handy, yet underutilized, feature is the ability to apply AE Lock when working with Auto ISO in Manual mode. The viewfinder will show the difference between the locked value and the current metered value. "

Sadly - this is not what some of us need - it's simply AE lock in Manual mode (which effectively just locks the ISO setting).

I've been critical elsewhere about Canons lacking in this area. I hate being critical of Canon gear because I think it is, on the whole, very very good gear and has served me well over many years.

But I do not understand why Canon still haven't got a full Auto-ISO implementation like all their competition.

What it is impossible to do in Manual mode with Auto-ISO is to offest the exposure from the metered value. This can be handy in some situations, particularly when you wish full control of both aperture and shutter in rapidly changing lighting conditions. It's possible to use Auto-ISO to cope with the variations in lighting, but it is not possible to then apply an offset (effectively via ISO) for situations where it is necessary to compensate the metered exposure due to a difficult subject.

Not everyone needs this, but for those who would use it, the fact that it is available on all other decent DSLR alternatives, and has been for some time, but not on Canon gear is quite frustrating.

I'd like to add my voice to the call for this feature - as I have elsewhere.

The only issue I can see for them is coming up with a decent control schema - which button/wheel combination will work whislt still allowing the customisation options that are available. I'm fairly sure I personally could come up with a solution for my bodies - but I'm not sure about others. However, I think the good UI people at Canon should be capable of this.

Apart from that, a simple offest to the metered value which affects the ISO setting should really be very easy to implement I'd have thought.

There are quite a few shooters I know who would really appreciate this in a firmware update - 7D, 5D3 and 1Dx at least.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

7D5D — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:52:15 GMT

@schmegg wrote:
...There are quite a few shooters I know who would really appreciate this in a firmware update - 7D, 5D3 and 1Dx at least.

Yes, I'm one, in fact just yesterday this feature would have been handy. It definitely should be on all xD bodies and I'd like to see it at least on all xxD and xD bodies.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

pvk — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 11:51:30 GMT

Great! This feature is now coming on the 1DX with a firmware update: http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/Announcements/Feature-Enhancement-Firmware-announced-for-the-EOS-1D-X-Digital/td-p/45411

So does this mean it will also come on the 5D III?

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

Skirball — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:58:54 GMT

@pvk wrote:
Great! This feature is now coming on the 1DX with a firmware update: http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/Announcements/Feature-Enhancement-Firmware-announced-for-the-EOS-1D-X-Digital/td-p/45411

So does this mean it will also come on the 5D III?

Not necessarily. One of the marketing gimmicks of the 1dX is that it is specially designed to allow for "periodic" firmware upgrades. So it's possible that it would take additional work to be able to roll out the change to other models. Or perhaps they just like to intentionally cripple features to encourage upgrading.

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

kerrybrook — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 00:21:38 GMT

I also hope that Canon listens and makes a firmware update for the 5d3.

I would use this a great deal. Particularly with all this snow, shooting birds that fly from a snowy background to a green one (hedge) I'm constantly making changes from no compensation to plus 2 stops.

I have used Canon cameras and lenses for 35 years and have spent a small fortune on equipment. So Canon, for your loyal and long-time supporters, do the right thing!

Cheers

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

amfoto1 — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 17:45:56 GMT

"One of the marketing gimmicks of the 1dX is that it is specially designed to allow for "periodic" firmware upgrades."

Actually, it's sort of a "gimmick" with all DSLRs. Most models see periodic firmware updates, though the changes may be relatively minor. .

But both the 7D and the 5D Mark III also have seen more extensive and significant version 2.0.x firmware updates, like the 1DX. I expect we'll see more of this in the future.

Regarding Auto ISO....

Actually the only time I'd have use for it is with the camera in M (Manual mode). A previous poster suggested it should be disabled in M mode, which is just plain crazy. Tha'ts when A-ISO would be most useful, IMO... Actually is the only time I can see myself using it.

Because of that, it really needs to have Exposure Compensation on all cameras that offer it. Auto ISO is just another form of auto exposure and E.C. is pretty much the norm and an essential tool on the other forms of AE.

I'd be particularly reluctant to use Auto ISO in combination with Tv, Av or P modes. To me that's just asking for trouble, piling automation on top of automation. Tv, Av, and P each already have their own useful purposes. Adding A-ISO to the mix, I'd find it hard to predict what the results will be.

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM

Re: 5DIII Auto ISO in Manual + exposure compensation

BostonShooter — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:42:00 GMT

Does anyone know if there's been an update to the status of this feature request in the last year? I know the 1Dx got a firmware upgrade, but what are the prospects for the 5DIII?

For those of you out there who always wonder, why would anyone want this strange feature, here's a scenario ...

I shoot a lot of baseball games. You're constantly moving the camera from the batter to the pitcher to a fielder. It's pretty much a guarantee that you will need a different ISO on the batter v. a fielder, but you still want to keep shutter speed and aperture constant. On a bang-bang play, it's impossible to change the ISO fast enough, so auto-ISO is a must. But there are definitely those days when it's [insert less-than-optimal lighting condition here: hazy, misty, cloudy, nighttime-under-lights, whatever], and you want to compensate for the camera's definition of best ISO.

This feature is what I've been dreaming of for a long time, and it's not because I don't know how to use program mode, or am not a "real" manual shooter. It's truly a missing feature that should have been there when they thought up auto-ISO in the first place. If auto-ISO is a legitimate feature, EC for auto-ISO is a necessary complement.