topic Re: HDR or Multi Shot in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

Ramsden — Tue, 07 Jan 2025 14:32:14 GMT

Hello from a snowy North of England

EOS90d to hand and a new ef 70-300 IS USM just added. The attached photo was with my kit 135mm lens and I intend to take more railway + infrastructure. So I know some guys say switch off HDR probably because of its 'automatic' nature.

So I'm planning more viaduct shots and wondering about using multiple shots and learning to use bracketing. I still intend to mix freezing the train and blurring. Up to now the blurrs havent worked very well - more of a smudge! I learnt to use manual focus and try to work in M as much as possible.

So basically, will multi shots help or hinder in this process.

Thanks

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 13:49:46 GMT

In-camera HDR does the work for you, but is limited to three shots and produces a final JPEG.

If you choose bracketing you can get more range by selecting the settings, but you need post processing software.

The moving train will be a problem with bracketing. You might try bracketing of the viaduct w/o train and then capture with the train. Merge them in post.

From a composition standpoint you might want to frame the shot to eliminate much of the first third of the left side.

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 14:03:11 GMT

Thanks John - that was my concern using bracketing on a moving subject.

Ive had this camera for year now and continue to learn

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

ebiggs1 — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 15:57:37 GMT

What was your goal here? Is it a properly exposed shot ot a silhouette? I can see neither needing HDR or bracketing.

Bassically, both HDR and bracketing are used for exposures that have a greater DR than the camera can record. Of course there are some special effects that can be done too.

DR range exceeded......................

Special effects...............

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 17:09:56 GMT

Hi EB

Good question! I've had cameras since I was a kid, and Canons for over 20 yrs at least. But last year I pushed the boat out and got the EOS90D and spent the last 12 months trying to learn how it works and get the most out of it. I love the camera, and you guys have been so supportive. I can honestly say, that I would still be on A and Jpeg - point and shoot without the help you guys have given. So, (Im 77 yrs old) Ive never used post photo editing, like DPP4 till recently, yet my late Father taught me to use a light meter and develop my own films when I was about 12yrs old. So photography is in my blood from a long time ago.

Back to the viaduct - my son and I pass that viaduct after his swimming club each week, around 9.00pm and we started taking our cameras, thinking, that will make a great photo. Then the problems began...composition, exposure, moving subjects.

But what I would like to do on some of the photos, is highlight the stonework and the profile of the arches, and the train is secondary, but ideally we want a train for effect. We are 'lucky' to have lots of these old Viaducts and railways near where we live.

I hope all this makes sense, and I appreciate your patience.

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 17:30:03 GMT

HI Again

This isn’t a brilliant photo, but hopefully you can see the stonework. It was difficult to get a good place to shoot from.

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

DougsGraphics — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 20:28:30 GMT

Hi Ramsden,

If I understand correctly, you are looking to properly expose the stonework and that blows out the sky. I have not played with HDR mode for moving subjects, so I am not sure how that will work out. Your best option is probably combining multiple images in post. It would then be possible to simply isolate the scene aspects and combine the separate exposures. To accomplish in camera, a graduated ND filter could be used to attempt to normalize the lighting across the scene, assuming you can't find a time of day where the lighting meets your needs.

Doug

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 20:40:13 GMT

Thanks Dougs

Combing graphics sounds a good idea - it’s also something I need to learn to do effectively. It’s all part of my learning process - which I’m enjoying.

Regards

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

DougsGraphics — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 20:43:08 GMT

If you run into issues with that, give me a shout and I will try to help you out.

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 20:47:08 GMT

Thanks

I’ll probably take you up on that offer. I’m planning to take some more pictures with my new lens and we can take it from there.

Ramsden

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Mon, 06 Jan 2025 08:13:00 GMT

HD filter in the post!

We've still got snow - so catch up later this week.

Ramsdeb

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

ebiggs1 — Mon, 06 Jan 2025 15:26:34 GMT

OK the first thing to do is get the exposure correct. Your shot is drastically underexposed. That's why I wondered if it was supposed to be a silhouette. If you want bridge detail expose for the bridge. This is simple with a 90D. Aim the 90D on the bridge while holding the SS button halfway down then recompose. If you do want the upper part of the shot in correct exposure then you may need to bracket and stack.

Re: HDR or Multi Shot

Ramsden — Mon, 06 Jan 2025 20:11:50 GMT

Thanks EB

My new years resolution is to seriously up my game!

This afternoon I managed to get the Canon eos utility on my laptop and transfered all last years photographs across and the deleted around 40% of them...Ive got a great camera and must try harder. No excuses.

Thanks

Ramsden

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

ebiggs1 — Tue, 07 Jan 2025 21:35:58 GMT

"Ive got a great camera and must try harder."

First yes you do have a fantastic camera. It is the best cropper series Canon made and perhaps the best one anybody made. Everybody started at the beginning. Baby steps not long jump!

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

Ramsden — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 08:40:03 GMT

Thanks EB. You've made me think and go back to square one. My previous camera was (still is) a Canon Powershot SX620 HS which just sits in my pocket - till point and shoot. So I'm transitioning, and really enjoying the process.

So after your recent feedback I started to think about composition, which then led me to think about the steps I go through when the camera comes out of the case. I have a tripod and monopod + the plug in remote if I need it.

So do you have a procedure that you run through when you look at a scene?

So when I go back to my viaduct (when the snow and ice melt) camera on tripod - what questions would you be asking?

Thanks for your help

Ramsden

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

ebiggs1 — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 16:01:07 GMT

Of course without actually being there I can't give exacting settings but one thing that has always guided me is, let the main most important thing be the main most important thing. Focus and expose on that. Do the tricks to get what else you feel is important in the image if warranted.

Another thing to keep in mind is don't overthink the camera or the scene. A lot of the time the camera is smarter than you might think. And, if you have a P mode scene let it be a P mode scene. 80% of your shots will be P mode capable.

Use a tripod when it is necessary and don't when it is not. Again most of the time a tripod is not necessary.

You did mention bracketing but along with bracketing there is multiple shots. The very same scene but with slightly to drastically different settings. Settings that you may think some settings are silly but sometimes, just sometimes, they produce something real. A sample of trying different settings opposed to bracketing gave me this shot of our last comet visitor.

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

Ramsden — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 16:37:05 GMT

Hi EB

Thats a great shot and I've noted your points. This takes me back to composition and what's important in the shot. I'm going to take my time and probably take less photographs. Also I've just taken delivery of a hard back copy of Understanding Exposure - I had it on my Kindle - but its better with the book in front of your eyes.

We're bracing ourselves for -12° tonight and tomorrow - and I'm going knowhere with camera in hand. Hopefully be in touch in a few days.

Ramsden

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

DougsGraphics — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 18:06:10 GMT

Ramsden,

I have the advantage (i.e., I'm getting old) of coming through the photography learning process over decades, starting with a very fundamental film camera where I learned the zone system. Film and developing were expensive so you had to learn to get it right the first time. (Shoot a wedding on film -- you better be confident in your ability to expose correctly!) I then spent almost 2 decades shooting all manner of subjects with the manual focus film Canon T-90s, which had a fantastic feature -- a 1° spot meter and the capability to measure up to 8 (if I recall correctly) different points in a scene and adjust your exposure accordingly -- a fantastic way to visually and seemlesly implement the zone system. Nowadays with digital, you have the ability in a static scene to get instant feedback and adjust, but the zone system still applies and I still intuitively apply it. The zone system simply put is an 11-stop scale from pure black to pure white, and 7 stops from darkest detail to brightest detail, which as a general rule is the dynamic range of most cameras. When you are faced with a high contrast scene, you want to center your exposure in the middle of that 7-stop range. The trick is then to break down the scene to the different zones and adjust your exposure from the way your camera interprets the scene (so you have to understand how your camera does that) to where it needs to be to render all the right details in a scene. That takes experience, but I would suggest that learning that will in the long run help you the most. It will help you to look at a scene and know if you can get everything in one exposure or if you will have to stack images at different exposures, add filters, etc. General composition rules come after you first work out the exposure. As a nature and wildlife photographer, I face complicated exposure situations every day that require manual exposure manipulation on the fly. Here are some examples.

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

Ramsden — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 19:52:03 GMT

Hi Dougs

Thanks for your post. The photographs look great. What is the burst on that sun set picture - it looks dramatic on my phone.

The Zones concept is really interesting. I was telling EB that Ive just today got a hard copy Understanding Exposure and on P16 he has the roof top parking photo. He talks about focussing on 1/3 rd into the scene to set his camera up. I was wondering how this applied to the viaduct unless because at the moment our favourite place is to the right of centre - but face on. Given that Ive never done any layering before I can see how it works. So Ive got the filter and plan to take a few pictures on tripod focussing on the stonework,.with the filter dark side up on the sky. Then either remove filter, or turn it 180° to capture trains going across ( probably frozen and blurred). Then I have merge them with software.

Is this correct? So I now have to apply the zones to the composition before I start - what is my focus point or story. We're in the middle of a cold spell, minus 20° tonight so Im going knowhere with my camera. Ive got the filter and can see how it works. With the 2 scales do you play around with them in tandem to get the best combo?

Bryan P has some interesting views on White Balance - so my heads swimming now!

Thanks

Ramsden

Hopefully I'll have something to work with early next week, if the snow melts.

Re: EOS 90D HDR or Multi Shot for train photography

Ramsden — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 20:38:06 GMT

Dr Google!