topic Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 13:07:00 GMT

Why does Canon combine IBIS with lens IS only? They say they don't support third party lenses and even don't support there own EF lenses and in some cases IBIS is broken with some lenses. So we should have the option to use the lens IS without IBIS. What bugs me is the sell an adapter to use EF lenses on RF but when you call support they say they don't support it. Go figure! I have the R7 and have read a lot of complaints and plenty complain on YouTube too. So far I cant complain i started using the R7 with 1.5 firmware which seems fixed a lot of ibis issues with ef lenses. But I do have a sigma lens that doesn't work well with IBIS. The lens is very good on my 6D using its own IS. But I cant use it on my R7.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

deebatman316 — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 04:41:39 GMT

Canon does support there own EF lenses still at least ones that are current production. Or that are newer but old lenses no. Lens IS and IBIS are coordinated to work in tandem. Note with older EF lenses + IBIS. The amount of stabilization depends on the lens. Older lenses don’t provide as much stabilization as newer lenses. You simply can’t turn off lens IS and use IBIS or vice versa. All EF lenses I’ve adapted have always performed better. Now the adapter is just an extension tube that put an EF lens at the correct distance from the image sensor. The camera can tell if an EF lens is mounted and switch to EF Mount communication instead of RF Mount communication. A lot EF lenses DO NOT fully support all features of EOS R series cameras such as 12 fps. Very old Arc Form Drive (AFD) AF motor lenses from the beginning of the EF Mount are limited to 3-4 FPS. This is because the AF and aperture control are carried out sequentially instead of at the same time. Most manufacturers combine lens IS + IBIS together. They cannot be used separately.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 05:48:46 GMT

I am aware of what you said regarding the lenses old and new and about what the adapter accomplishes. As far as supporting ef lenses I got that answer from someone who called Canon and that's what Canons support team told them. But regarding the fact that you cant select ibis only and lense IS only instead of both combined...it can be done. They just don't want to offer it. Look...If a lens has no IS... You can use ibis. There you go...ibis works by itself! The camera just needs to ignore or disable the lens IS if you select ibis only. Then with ibis off let the lense IS function by itself. It can be done its just that they don't want to offer it. That's annoying to many that have lenses that don't work well enough with both stabilization methods permanently joined.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

deebatman316 — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:54:46 GMT

That’s not true my friend had a problem with her EF lenses locking up her EOS R6 (Classic). She sent it into Canon and they fixed it under warranty. I also confirmed that they support their own EF lenses on the RF Mount. As long as the lens is within its service life. No IBIS and lens IS cannot be used separately. The lens doesn’t simply tell the camera that IS is on or Off. Lens IS is a feature of the lens not the camera. It’s controlled by the lens it has nothing to do with the camera. That’s why early EOS film bodies such as the EOS 650 (released in 1987) work with IS lenses. That camera came out before IS was available. The first IS lens came out in 1995. But the first EF Mount cameras were released in 1987. All the camera does is send power and data to the lens. Then the lens carries out IS. So you cannot use it separately. Sony E Mount, Sigma, Leica & Panasonic L Mount, Nikon Z work the same way. You cannot turn off one system and use the other. The camera cannot simply ignore it because lens IS and IBIS will fight each other and cause violent shaking. Also IBIS works with non-IS Canon EF lenses because they communicate to the body and tell it has no IS. If you try using fully manual lens with no electronic communication IBIS doesn’t work. Some older SLR lens mounts such as Pentax K and Minolta/ Sony A Mount never went the Optical IS route. They do IBIS only in fact you cannot find IS lenses for those cameras. Since they choose IBIS over lens based IS.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 15:29:22 GMT

But you just said Lens IS works by itself and the camera only applies power to the lens for it. We know IBIS works by itself too. And IBIS works with manual lenses too. It just has a bug and forgets or doesn't read the focal length setting we set in the IS menu in the camera when the camera is first powered on. You have to manually go reset it even after the camera goes to sleep. But IBIS does work with dumb lenses.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

deebatman316 — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 15:45:51 GMT

The problem is if they’re out of sync it will cause the image to shake violently. When you turn off lens IS it holds the elements in a specific position. So the lens has to power IS all the time. But it won’t be stabilizing. The case is the same for lenses with electronic focus rings. Even though the lens is set to MF. The lens’ AF motor needs power for MF to work. Canon has had Focus By Wire lenses since 1987. The first of such lenses was the EF 300mm F/2.8L USM lens. Early EF Mount Ring Type USM, Nano USM and STM utilize this design. All RF lenses are Focus By Wire designs. Also IBIS doesn’t work with fully manual lenses. I’ve tried it already the image violently shakes. So it’s not a bug it’s functioning correctly. I used TS-E and MP-E lenses on the EOS R series and they work just fine. These a specialty lenses with NO AF or IS just electronic aperture control. So they still communicate with the camera. IBIS is fully functional and works. All EF lenses require power and data to work. Or the camera can’t interface with the camera. Such as controlling the aperture blades.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Stephen — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:00:37 GMT

We brought up the camera "forgetting" the manual lens settings to the engineers many years ago. We were informed that it was a conscious decision to have this happen. I can't remember exactly why, but leaving it enabled presented some issues that Canon, Inc. deemed it was necessary to have that setting stored in volatile storage (temporary, not lasting beyond the time the camera is powered on).

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:18:55 GMT

Interesting discussion... Thanks... Although at least with the R7 I can get IBIS to work with my TTartisan all manual lenses. The issue is it jumps around after you power off and back on. You have to resetup the focal length but after you take one picture first. Very weird. But once its stable it continues to work just fine as long as the camera doesnt go to sleep or you power cycle it. Its a known problem now for two years... This issue has been discussed for two years. You can get it to work. Granted only with manual primes that have one focal length. Zooms will never work unless you want to reset the focal length in the IBIS setting after you change the lenses focal length. You would still be guessing tho so that really doesn't work with manual zooms.

Re: R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 16:31:59 GMT

Oh wow...at least an answer...thank you! Still weird that when first powered on...its working! But after one shot its lost. But after your comment I bet they designed it to do this... Still they should force IBIS off instead of enabled and the sensor jumping like crazy. That cant be a good state to stay in for IBIS...

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Waddizzle — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 02:00:01 GMT

Did you have a specific lens in mind that is giving you problems?

IBIS equipped camera bodies can work with lenses that have IS as well as those that do not. Manufacturers integrate IBIS with the IS in lenses to extend the range of Image Stabilization. For example, the lens IS might give 3-4 stops of Stabilization, while integrating with IBIS can give you 7-8 stops of stabilization. ‘

I believe every major camera manufacturer integrates IBIS with lens IS in that way, to extend the range of the lens.

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

deebatman316 — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 02:04:32 GMT

Yes that is true almost all if not all mirrorless camera manufacturers do. Some DSLR/ (DSLT (Sony only)) camera manufacturers opted for IBIS ONLY such as Pentax K/ PK Mount and Minolta/ Sony A Mount. Optical IS lenses were never released for those mounts because they already had IBIS.

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 02:39:04 GMT

You are a mind reader! I am having a problem with one lens. Other than the all manual lens issue that I can get to work with multiple steps when I turn the camera back on, my Sigma 150-600 contemporary seems to struggle with my R7. Its weird though. Most photographers on Youtube have a problem with focus issues using this lens and for some reason my sample doesn't miss focus. But IS isn't that great. IBIS is making the image jump around a bit. And it was rock solid using my old 7D without IBIS. And its fine on my 6D. I have other older Sigma lenses. The APSC 50-150 F2.8 APO IS EX which is an old lens works well with IBIS and lens IS. I figured old lens like that would have a problem...it works very well. But the big contemporary has issues. i find sometimes its better than others though. I may have to toggle IS settings to get it to stabilize. Similar to what we have to do with the all manual lenses.

My old EF lenses are good. EF 24-105L F4 II works great. The EF 16-35L F2.8 II works well too. Sigma 18-35 F1.8 is good. SIGMA 14mm F1.8 and 50mm F1.4 all good. IBIS works great with the metabones speed booster too! So nothing wrong with my R7. I love the camera... The Sigma 14mm F1.8 is a 10mm F1.2 with the speed booster. Outdoors at night with a couple small lights looks like daytime with low ISO's. Its quite a nice setup.

Also have two RF lenses. 18-150 and the 100-400mm. I bought the 100-400 because of the sigma stabilization issues. Its a great lens and so light and easy to carry around. Perfect on a bright sunny day...

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Waddizzle — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 03:44:10 GMT

I’m no mind reader. It seemed obvious that you were experiencing some issue. I was surprised that no one had asked you about it, yet. Is the firmware in the Sigma 150-600mm up-to-date?

Sigma super telephoto lenses have had a history of OS what was a little unstable. The camera AF and the lens OS would get into a tug-of-war. Sigma did eventually release a firmware update that seemed to cure the issues with DSLRs several years ago. They have had to release further updates to fix similar issues in MILC bodies, which have MUCH faster AF systems.

Whenever I use my 150-600 C I always leave the OS in the lens disabled. It is possible that the IBIS only makes the Siigma OS issues that more acute. I leave OS turned off and use a monopod.

Take everything you see and read on the internet with a grain of salt. There is a YouTube content creator that has made a number of videos that allegedly document issues with Canon cameras and the Sigma 150-600mm C. He has made several videos with different Canon cameras, going back as far as the 40D. He freely admits to being an amateur in a couple of his more recent videos and seems to acknowledge that his conclusions could be incorrect. They are incorrect. All of the problems that I saw were caused by operator error, particularly focusin on subjects too close to the camera or WAy too far away.

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 04:00:34 GMT

So you are not experiencing the close range shooting at 600 mm focus issues where the lens pulses in and out of focus? There are a few guys that have problems. One guy in Australia. He even has videos showing what it does. I have seen none of that... But my contemporary has been focusing perfectly on my 6D and 7D through the viewfinder even without adjustments with the sigma dock. So it appears to be a perfectly optically aligned lens sample. As far as OS mine has also been very good on my 6D and 7D. I shoot hand held a lot. But your comment and my issues with the R7 made me think... I haven't used it on my 6D in a while...I will take a look see how still it really is. If in fact it does move a bit maybe what you are saying is what's happening. They are fighting each other.

Sigma firmware is up to date.

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:59:39 GMT

So I have done more testing with the all manual lenses. When i turn on the camera IBIS is enabled for one picture and then starts jumping around like crazy. But if i turn it on and go to video mode. IBIS stays enabled video clip after video clip. Its only taking one picture that makes IBIS go crazy. And if I go back to video only mode after taking one picture, IBIS is a mess. So not sure I buy there argument that it needs to be reset on power up. Used in video mode it stay enabled. Power on or off it continues to work as long as you don't take a still picture.

Re: EOS R7: Lens IS without IBIS enabled

Ronomy — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 20:32:31 GMT

Finally put the Sigma 150-600 C back on my 6D and its doing the same jumping around. In fact on the R7 its better. IBIS is trying to stabilize what the sigma is doing. I don't remember seeing this in the past on my 6D...

So it looks like i will be grabbing at least my monopod from now on with this lens.

Well this is why i grabbed the RF 100-400. Mostly for the IS and shooting video. The 18-150 is very smooth and i figured another RF lens would be best for Image stabilization reasons. And it is!

Did some searching and many people having this problem with the Sigma 150-600 C.