topic Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

uliongon — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:25:03 GMT

I own a Canon 20D that I got because I wanted to get into photography. My lenses are a basic kit lens and a 50mm f/1.8. I don't have a lot of $$ to spend on nice gear so I am wondering how long this camera will last before I (a complete beginner) will start to notice its age. Thanks for any help https://routerlogin.uno/ !

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 14:30:17 GMT

It usually takes absolute beginners about 10,000 photos wtih digital camera before they truly have it figured out.

Be aware that you are facing two learning curves. How to use a digital camera. Learning the basics of photography. I like to compare it to learning to play a musical instrument. You have to learn how to pla the instrument, but you will never play a song until you learn about music theory.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

shadowsports — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 14:46:02 GMT

Greetings ,

The 20D is 20 years old. A testament to Canon's build quality and resilience By today's standards it's practically a museum.piece. it has all of the features that can teach one basic photography. Composition, the principals of exposure and RAW file manipulation. If you have never used a more modern camera, you aren't going to miss what you've never known. What you will notice however are others who can shoot under more challenging shooting conditions, like low light, or fast action who will get results, better (or more easily) than you can. This will not be true in every situation, but modern cameras can do more. It's just a fact.

Don't be discouraged by this. Get out there and take photos. This is the best way to learn. Also do some reading. The internet is a wealth of information, highlighting techniques and principals that will help you learn and grow. Photography takes practice. It's a skill. Not something you you can buy. You can start saving for your next camera.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:34:32 GMT

The biggest impact on your photography will come from learning how to edit your images. I would not worry about how long it is before you outgrow your 20D but how proficient you can become with Photoshop and raw files. Raw files are mandatory.

Oh, sure newer cameras have better sensors and are faster but really only offer features that are already present on your 20D. They just automate or make them easier to use so the photographer has to do less and less. Some of the worlds greatest photos were taken with little more than a box with a pin hole in it.

You know at one time we even had to focus lenses ourselves but somehow managed to get the shots.

"It usually takes absolute beginners about 10,000 photos wtih digital camera before they truly have it figured out."

Where in the world did you ever come up with that figure? I would say that person is a very slow learner. After a few hundred one should have the basics down pat. Photoshop on the other hand can take some time to get fully learned.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 16:18:40 GMT

“ Where in the world did you ever come up with that figure? I would say that person is a very slow learner. After a few hundred one should have the basics down pat. Photoshop on the other hand can take some time to get fully learned. “

Read it again. Most people can learn the basics after a few hundred shots. They can become a dull knife after several hundred shots. It takes thousands of shots before you really get it figured out. You can press the shutter for one second and capture a dozen photos, where as with a film camera that most likely would have been only one photo.

Using a digital camera is not like shooting with film, where you are forced to think about what you are doing more. They have to wait several days or a couple of weeks to see their results. You don;t have to put as much thought into it to begin using a digital camera, which makes the learning curve from beginner to expert longer.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Tronhard — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 19:45:58 GMT

I think the origin of this quote about 10,000 image are traceable to Henri Cartier-Bresson, who famously said:
“Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” It is one of his more quoted comments amongst a long list of observations he is famous for making:
Top 50 Henri Cartier-Bresson Quotes on Photography - ARTCENTRON

Like all generalizations, I personally would not take the quote too literally...

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 19:51:01 GMT

I’ve never heard that before. I think you might have quoted it in the past. But I have been saying that for years.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Tronhard — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 00:39:49 GMT

That is an absolutely impossible question to provide a definitive answer to. It is generally accepted that a competent photographer can take decent images with relatively primitive equipment - consider images taken in the past that are universally celebrated, yet are taken with cameras that would today be considered completely obsolete by many.

The corollary of that is I have seen people with the most modern, top tier gear take totally rubbish photographs because they don't learn the basic of metering, exposure and composition - or they take technically good but totally uninspiring images.

As a general observation, once you have understood light, reflectance, metering exposure and composition to some degree, you will start to become more specialized in the types of images you want to shoot. At some stage your ability to capture images will be inhibited by your gear, and you will know that - that is when you consider a gear upgrade. That is arguably going to be limited more by the optics you have than the camera. Most people who start off - and a lot of experienced photographers too - fixate on the camera body, when the lenses arguably have more impact on the image and often represent a far great investment because of their cost and their longevity.

I would encourage you to consider the material in this article:
Considerations for buying camera equipment

I demonstrated this exact point with a post in the section Share Your Photos. The 20D was released in 2004 and the EOS 400D was released two years later but the 20D was at it's release time a higher-spec'd camera, so from the trickle down effect, they are roughly comparable.
Images with an Obsolete Camera - Page 2 - Canon Community

I can even add the older EOS D60 from 2002.
D60, EF 24-105@53mm, f/4.5, 1/30sec, ISO-200 D60, EF 17-40@38mm, f/4.5, 1/2sec, ISO-200D60, EF 24-105@105mm, f/6.3, 1/1600sec, ISO-200 D60, EF 28-135@28mm, f/10, 1/80sec, ISO-200

That's why the first line in my signature says what it does...

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

stevet1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 01:38:18 GMT

uliongon,

I'd say, use the camera you have and learn as much as you can about taking photographs, all the while, saving what money you can.

I probably shouldn't say this, but I had to save for a year before I could buy the camera I have.

Steve Thomas

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Tronhard — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 03:12:31 GMT

I can relate to that. When I first started getting serious about photography, I had only a book on the subject and ones from the library. They were much as they are today - about the physics of the activity, and a lot of examples with explanations as to the settings chosen and the composition, with multiple variations and examples. I consumed those for a year before I could afford the gear I wanted, and I had to get it duty and tax free as I left the country to go walkabout in Australia. That helped reduce my learning curve because I understood the principles and understood somewhat about what I wanted to achieve, I just needed to get used to the controls and practice, practice, practice - which, considering I was using film that cost for every shot, was carefully done.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 14:54:05 GMT

"Like all generalizations, I personally would not take the quote too literally..."

Nonsense is more fitting than literally. There are a lot of people that own digital camera that will never take 10,000 photos and are satisfied with what they have. If it takes a person 10,000 shots before they get good images perhaps they need to find another hobby.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Tronhard — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 17:49:57 GMT

If I did, it was more tongue in cheek! 😋

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

Tronhard — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 19:11:16 GMT

Well Ernie, it's a much quoted saying, but I suspect Cartier-Bresson and certainly I, was saying it with tongue in cheek or with some irony. I think the main point was that skillfully creating images using a dedicated camera, especially in the era of Cartier-Bresson, required the learning of all the skills I mentioned, plus a lot of practice.

Considering one of his most famous images, and likely the icon for his catch-phrase 'the decisive moment', his image "Outside la Gare" is an exemplar of the skills - the right shutter speed, aperture, focus, and above all, the anticipation of the right moment to freeze the subject's foot just before it splashed down. Considering he was using an early Leica camera - so manual configuration, no motor drive or even fast film advance level - his was the essential one-chance, one-shot world that you and I, who grew up with film, can relate to.

Practise is more about the pure manipulation of the camera itself. As one of my favourite photographers, the now sadly late Elliott Erwitt said "All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the ability to notice". He photographed a huge range from presidents to poodles, but his images were consistently engaging and often humorous.

The lately-recognized Vivian Maier was an outstanding photographer, with an amazing ability to get close to her subjects, get the verticals correct, the exposure, focus and the composition correct and achieve an outstanding keeper rate, considering she was most of the time using a square format Rolleiflex twin lens reflex camera fully manually controlled - recognized as one of the most challenging formats. According to a couple of academics who have studied her work extensively, out of a roll of 12 images, she would often score above ten outstanding ones. To them, and me, that is hugely impressive. See: Vivian Maier Presentation at Berkeley, April 2, 2014 (youtube.com) This is discussed by them at timestamp 32:20.

Definitely, it's far more than the gear.

Re: How long will my Canon 20d last me before I outgrow it?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:50:48 GMT

"... I, was saying it with tongue in cheek or with some irony."

Oh, yes, I know you were. I was also attempting to point out the nonsense about it being 10,000.

If you really want to know the average person and their attachment to or ability and interest, you need to teach beginning digital camera classes. The forums are full of keyboard cowboys that all they do is read with no actual experience so a quote like that seems plausible.