topic Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:36:25 GMT

Hello community,

I own 2 cameras: 760D and 90D.

I took the 90D as it is the last DSLR on market (good for people with sensitivity to PWM).

My issue:

When I use OS on any lens, it works on both cameras on the Rear LCD Display (settings 1, 2 and OFF, work as they should)

When I use OS on any lens, it works on the Optical Viewfinder on the 760D (the landscape is steady) while on the 90D is shaking. If I switch to setting 2 (on the lens that has such) nothing happens on 90D on the OVF - the image is shaking (760D it is still steady). If I switch OFF, on the OVF on 90D and 760D becomes shaky.

I think to return the camera to warranty, but I don't know how to explain..

How can the 90D, have the OS on the lens ON (1 or 2) and work on the Rear LCD Display and when I switch to OVF, the OS goes off. This not happening on another Canon APSC (760D).

Any clues?

Firmware: 1.1.2

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:11:52 GMT

Welcome to the Canon Community.

I assume “OS” means Optical Stabilization? There is a significant difference in resolution between the cameras.

If you are using a tripod, then any type of image or optical stabilization should be disabled. Your observations are an example of why this is a best practice.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:53:07 GMT

OS yes Optical Stabilisation of Canon or Sigma lenses.

Yes I never use OS on tripod 🙂 Not on my training cameras, old, or even the new. (this issue I have only on 90D of Canon).

I don't know about resolution and how that could possibly affect what I see in the Optical View Finder. This does not happen to me on Canon 760D (nor on other systems that I own (Nikon and Fuji)).

Really imagine having the Optical Stabilisation ON on the lens, you look on the Optical Viewfinder and is shaky as if it was turned OFF. Then I switch to Rear LCD display (the tilting screen with touchscreen touch controls etc) and the image is super steady. Becomes shaky on the LCD once I put OS on OFF position, with the slider on the lens.

If I put the lens on my old 760D, then the image is steady both in Optical View Finder and also (after I switch) in the Read Display.

How can a camera have steady image (OS ON) in LCD rear display, and have OS OFF when switching to Optical Viewfinder?

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 22:15:35 GMT

I don’t know what you are doing or how to reproduce your issue.

Are you using a tripod?

Is the AF active?

What shooting mode?

Does the issue occur when you are shooting in the Green [A+] mode?

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 22:50:36 GMT

Hello,

No tripod. I saw it says that I am an apprentice, I am not 🙂 I do travel photography and recently I saw that the OLED screen of my Fujifilm XT4 was making me see blurry for a few minutes and I read that is because of PWM that OLED have. Some people vomit and have headaches. So I got scared when my colleague at work, said he has the same issue, after using OLED iPhone, OLED ASUS ART laptop, OLED TV etc. Now we went all in with LCD and no PWM. Anyway, I got an offer at official CANON store, 20% off for a new in the box CANON 90D so I took it. Meanwhile I got to become parent so my time to test the camera was limited.

Now that I got out to do some wildlife and I saw that I am not steady as I used to be I got a bit worried. But then I took out my old 760D and put the same lens on, same settings, and voila I was steady as a rock :)) put it back on 90D and again shaky. I tested Canon and Sigma lenses and none seemed to have OS ON while in Optical View Finder, and when I go to rear display then image gets super steady like on a SteadyCam.

It was like that since day one, but I thought I must be missing firmware. When I got the time to put it, 1.1.2 I saw it made no difference. I even bought a firmware update tool for Sigma lenses (Canon Mount) and that did not work either.

Settings:

Yes AF is on, Spot AF with AI Servo, Single Shooting, RAW (if that matters) Evaluative Metering.

When I put any lens on Canon 760D (any that have OS on/off, I say this because I have a CANON lens with OS always ON, no OFF button present on the exterior) and I half press the shutter button, the frame gets super steady (say the moon, because is night here in France) both in the Optical View Finder and also in the Rear tilting LCD screen (after I switch). You are right I must focus on something, so yeah I focus on the Moon and it is steady. I have to move my hand to see it move in the OVF or in the LCD display. So like with any other camera, Optical Stabilisation ON will work on 760D in both view finders (optical and digital display on the rear of the tilting screen).

When I put (the same) OS lens on Canon 90D, same settings (Manual, AF Spot, AI Servo, RAW), I look at the digital display (rear LCD tilting screen) and it is steady. The moon is not shaking in the view. (no tripod, handheld always). When I turn off the LCD so now I look at the optical VF, now there I see how my hands are shaking and I cannot hold the frame steady. I try OS step 1 or 2 or even OFF, same amount of shake. I go back to LCD display (I press the START STOP button on Canon 90D) and the moon is steady on the frame, no shake).

Is this better explained?

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Tronhard — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 23:32:19 GMT

I have never experienced your issues and had to do some research to understand the physics behind your issue.
So, the following is a suggestion as to what might be the diffrence.

When you look through the viewfinder of the 90D, it may be that when OIS is active, the 90D is using a certain frequency to vibrate the back element of the lens at a different rate compared to your 760D. According to my rough calculation, the photosites of the 90D are about 0.74 of the area of the 760D or, if you will, the density is about 1/3 greater. Thus, I would suspect one can put this down to the difference in pixel density and thus photosite size which could, in turn, cause an interference pattern issue with the original speed of the OIS - so the designers simply changed to interface to vibrate the OIS at a different frequency. This may then explain why, when you are live view the image is being read off the sensor and that is showing the corrected and stable image because the related frequency patterns are 'in sync'.

Thus the issue is that the OIS frequency generates, for your vision, the effect you are experiencing. I have had the 90D and used it with no issues - both through the viewfinder and LCD, so that suggests that either your camera has a fault, or your specific eyesight is challenged by the configuration of the camera.

This could be fairly easily established if you can find another 90D and try viewing with the same lens through that. It would also be interesting to see if the issues replicates itself with different lenses that have OIS.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 23:34:15 GMT

Hello,

Yes I plan to go to store where I bought it and have them play with it. Is just they seem young and pro iPhones and DJI so dunno if they made pictures with a DSLR.

Also I was wondering what kind of defect could it be (because they have to write something on the document that they attach with the product). The OIS works when on LCD and does not seem to work when on OVF.

Yes I tested multiple lenses (100-400mm, 100mm macro lens and 18-135mm) all same "effect". Optical Viewfinder on 90D is shaking while the LCD is steady like a rock.

I used the same lenses (just now) on 760D -> all work the same with OIS both on Optical Viewfinder and LCD (it has a tilting LCD screen)

Yeah I wonder what name the defect might have.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Tronhard — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 00:15:15 GMT

I'm not sure you got the drift of my response to you. It may not be a 'defect' of that specific camera, it may be a design characteristic of the type or model of camera. There is no other camera in the Canon DSLR or MILC line-up that has the pixel density of the 90D - in the MILC range the R7 matches it. The pixel density is thus quite unique and may have frequency issues with the original OIS frequency relating to the aperture size of the photosites.

As a consequence, if they reconfigured the signal to the OIS to change that frequency, it would then correct the sensor issue, and thus the Live View image, but may have generated an issue for you looking through the VF because of the changed vibration frequency going in and out of sync.

I am suggesting that you check out another 90D to establish whether it is specific to your own unit, or a characteristic of the model. If it is a characteristic of the model, then it is a design issue, which is a very different one from an individual camera fault.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 00:26:27 GMT

“ Yes AF is on, Spot AF with AI Servo, Single Shooting, RAW (if that matters) Evaluative Metering. …. Is this a better explanation. “

No, not really. Thank you, for the details. But, I asked splecific questions and did not get specific answers. Your details are secondary questions.

The big one is this. Do you see the same issues when the shooting mode is automatic?

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

stevet1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 01:22:17 GMT

mideli,

Two things:

1) You said that you never use IS when you have your camera on a tripod, but then you said several times that you were shooting handheld. Try putting your camera on a tripod to see if the result is the same.

2) I would take Trevor's suggestion and try a different 90D. That way, you can determine if the problem is with all 90D's, or just the one you currently have.

Steve Thomas

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 08:42:17 GMT

No I don't see the same thing.

Now I switched to automatic and the image is steady both in the Optical Viewfinder and on the back of the LCD on the 90D.

What is the setting that the MANUAL has that "disables" the OS of the lens?

When I go to automatic (green A+ on the wheel) I hear the OS kicking (on the 100-400) and when I go to M I hear the OS going off.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 13:21:08 GMT

“ Now I switched to automatic and the image is steady both in the Optical Viewfinder and on the back of the LCD on the 90D.“

If the image is steady in the OVF and on the rear LCD, then that tells me the camera is working properly. Testi\g in automatic mode takes all the camera setting changes that you may have made off the table. It is a quick and dirty way to reset the camera back to factory defaults without actually erasing your settings. Also, the fact that it works in automatic removes operator error from the table, too.

I am going to recommend that you do a full reset of the camera. This can be a little time consuming. While there is a menu setting that resets the camera back to factory defaults, it does not completely reset the entire camera. That function resets everything that does not have a custom sub-menu. These menu items have their own reset option.

Set the top shooting dial to P. There should an option in the Wrecnh menu to “Clear All Camera Settings”. Select it and choose “OK”. Let’s stop here and see if the issue has gone away.

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

stevet1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 14:15:42 GMT

Then there is this:

The 760D weighs 565g. The 90D weighs 701g. If the optical viewfinder on the 90D works fine in Automatic Mode, could the operator be spending so much time concentrating on the settings in other Modes, that the heavier weight of the camera is causing his hands to shake?

Steve Thomas

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:41:13 GMT

Hello,

I did put it on P mode and went to Wrench 5th page and did the Clear all camera settings -> no change (now I have bluetooth on always. I think this is the only setting I did do initially).

I then googled and found out that I must press Menu button while turning ON the camera and then go to Clear all camera settings -> no change.

I also read the jokes of the other user, real Reddit quality. However it got me thinking and I asked my wife while I was holding the camera on A+ to switch to P (is just one tap counter-clockwise) and after one second the OS shuts down.

When going back to A+ (clockwise, one tap) the image becomes rock steady

I use a 100-400mm at 400mm, with a building in front of me that has a vertical and horizontal decor line that helps me to observe shake on lateral and horizontal planes. Again A+ is steady (unless I actually move my hand) and P is shaky. M, P, Av, B, Tv modes on 90D turn off OS on lenses (I can actually hear it turning off). When I go to A+, C1, C2, circles, SCN -> is turns on and stays on until I cycle to M, P, AV, TV, B

I saw you gave same answer to other people on the fact that there are other settings (that I am pretty sure I did not touch, as the camera is "new" and I shoot old school as if is film camera). Do you have a procedure on how to really reset the camera?

Re: CANON 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 17:49:24 GMT

Hello, the issue did not go away (I tried multiple ways to clear the settings, via P mode, B/M and from OFF position I was holding Menu and then turning on the camera while holding Menu - then clear). None work. All manual modes (B,M,P,Av,Tv) turn off the OS while the other modes leave it open.

Re: EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Tronhard — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:45:50 GMT

I realized that you have tried a reset but have you tried a full factory reset of the camera yet, as per the option in the wrench menu, page 5:

followed by Clear Custom Functions:

Given your lack of success so far, this is worth a try, I would suggest...

Re: EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 08:45:49 GMT

Hello, thank you, yes I did that already. Those easy to find on Google steps I did. I don’t know if there is another step something like putting an sd card etc.

Re: EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

Waddizzle — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 09:02:37 GMT

I must admit that I am stumped. Your is highly unusual. I would compare it to watching your color TV from the sofa, but it is a black and white TV when you sitting in the recliner.

Re: EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

mideli — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 09:09:24 GMT

That is why I was happy to see that automatic works but now I am sad that I still have to do the trip to Paris…

Maybe it is another type of reset that I must do.

Re: EOS 90D - OS not working in OVF while working on the rear Display

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 10:34:13 GMT

I suggest you register your camera (if you haven't already) and give Canon support a call.

MyCanon

1-800-OK-CANON