topic Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7. in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

susieq48 — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:37:31 GMT

The R7 is my third Canon camera. I am seriously thinking of returning it as it requires re-learning the dials etc that one should be able to quickly manuver while shooting. They are not intuitive. With my older cameras, I was able to sit with the manual and camera and go through it step by step. You could put it down for awhile and pick it up again with ease. Now we are expected to sit at a computer to read through pages. That can't be done in the comfort of my living room. Don't even talk about using a phone with the print so small you can barely see it. I also packed the manual with me when travelling to review features that I don't usually use during my normal shooting but may want to try.

Am I the only one disappointed with the idea that a corporation that charges enormous amounts for it's cameras can't afford to print a manual for those who would want one?

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

normadel — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 01:49:47 GMT

Canon stopped producing printed manuals some time ago, before mirrorless cameras. My EOS 6D did not have a printed manual.

You could print it yourself, partially or completely. Or, if you search Ebay for an R7 manual, you will find ones for sale that have been printed by people who do it as a business. They'd mostly be 8.5x11 and wire-or plastic-bound, maybe looseleaf. I saw at least one that gives you a choice of size. This is where I found my 6D manual, and it was actually printed same-size as Canon's manuals are/used to be!

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Tronhard — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 03:28:08 GMT

Hi Susie and welcome to the forum:

So, to clarify where you are... You chose to buy the R7 without being aware of the configuration of the controls?

Canon do this reconfiguring of controls, almost as an experiment, every now again - the notorious control bar on the EOS R being an example, and it can be frustrating: I have been shooting with Canon SLRs, DSLRs and MILCs for over 4 decades and I too get use to a certain control layout. However, when considering the purchase of a camera I always check out reviews from sources I trust and I download a PDF copy of the manual to go through and see about any new features or changes in configuration that may be significant so I know what I am getting.

A recent example is the EOS R6MkII, which has the ON-OFF switch on the opposite side from all other MILCs and even DSLRs, and that original spot is now taken with a switch between still and video. Yep, I still try to turn it off and get video, but I knew before I purchased it that this was an issue and decided I could learn to live with it, and I can.

Given that the vast majority of people who buy cameras don't read the manuals, (which explains why they come here and ask us), like many other consumer electronics companies, Canon decided a long time ago to desist from both the cost and waste of producing hard copies that likely end up in a landfill. I personally like the PDF's because I can annotate, use the search function for specific phrases, and I can store the manuals on a smartphone or tablet for reference when I am out and about or travelling. Since you have apparently neither a tablet or a laptop, that leaves you with a hardcopy, but they are available, or you can print only those parts of the PDF you need for reference.

Canon are not alone in this. Nikon and Sony include a very rudimentary guide with their cameras, but if you want the whole thing, you download that from their websites.

If you want a Canon R-series body that has controls very similar to the Canon DSLRs, then I would recommend checking out the EOS R6 (Not the MkII version), it's an excellent camera, has a superior build, and focus system to the R7 and has a great sensor. It is full-frame, but if your lenses will work with that, they are great cameras.
Check out the manual ahead from here:
Canon : Product Manual : EOS R6 : Part Names (start.canon)

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

shadowsports — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:43:50 GMT

Greetings susieq48,

I'm really sorry you feel this way, I find digital copies of my manuals to be very convenient and easy to use.

There is no difference between having a printed manual and viewing a PDF on a tablet or computer. I don't use my mobile device either. Like Trevor said, you can annotate and search the PDF for keywords or specific information. I sit in front of my computer all the time with my camera. I have a home office, a big desk and a super comfy chair to sit in. Most of the time I sit on the couch with my laptop in front of the TV with my camera. Now I have the manual and YouTube for reference. You don't even have to read the table of contents. Just type in the word or term you are looking for. So simple and convenient.

Second and more importantly, Canon continually introduces new features each time a new firmware is released. They add new features, hardware compatibility and functions that were not available when the camera was released and a manual might have been printed. A printed manual might be obsolete by the time you get your camera. My R5 C has two manuals. One for photo, one video. The printed manuals that came with the camera (think I got 2) were obsolete in just a few months after I got my camera. I was absolutely grateful for the new features and functions that the new firmware added. The only way to have a current reference for your camera is to use the digital copy available on your products support portal. Canon updates these regularly. You can print it if you wish, but you lose the ability to search it easily. When a new firmware gets released and a feature gets added, now your printed manual is once again out of date. So using a digital format is the most efficient way to ensure your manual or reference is current, applicable and up to date.

When I travel I usually have a laptop but if I didn't, YouTube is right there.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Waddizzle — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:22:53 GMT

Welcome to the forums!

Not including a full User Guide with products has become the norm with many types of consumer electronics. Manufacturers may only include a “Quick Start” card or a brief Instruction Manaual in the box. This saves the manufacturer significant costs. In theory, these savings are passed down to the consumer.

You can download the R7 Advanced User Guide, as well as free apps, from the R7 Product Support Page at the link just below.

https://www.usa.canon.com/support/p/eos-r7

The actual Advanced User Guide is 963 pages long. This would add considerable size and weight to the camera box. It just might even double the size of the box.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

jrhoffman75 — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 15:38:36 GMT

@susieq48 wrote:
The R7 is my third Canon camera. I am seriously thinking of returning it as it requires re-learning the dials etc that one should be able to quickly manuver while shooting. They are not intuitive. With my older cameras, I was able to sit with the manual and camera and go through it step by step. You could put it down for awhile and pick it up again with ease. Now we are expected to sit at a computer to read through pages. That can't be done in the comfort of my living room. Don't even talk about using a phone with the print so small you can barely see it. I also packed the manual with me when travelling to review features that I don't usually use during my normal shooting but may want to try.
Am I the only one disappointed with the idea that a corporation that charges enormous amounts for it's cameras can't afford to print a manual for those who would want one?

The manual is over 900 pages. If it was a bound paper document it would most likely be larger than the camera.

As noted by others, most folks don't read the manual anyway. It would be a major waste of resources.

You can download the PDF manual and have it printed at Staples, or as others have noted, there are companies that have already done that and sell them.

Older cameras were much simpler and didn't require a large manual to describe the use.

Return it if you wish, but I suspect any other camera you purchased would be in a similar state.

I have a very "simple" EOS M200 digital camera and the PDF manual for that is still over 500 pages.

EOS Magazine, a UK based site, makes handy pocket books.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Stephen — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 16:04:38 GMT

Hi, Susieq!

We stopped including the printed copies because the vast majority of them ended up in the trash, and most of our users preferred to be able to reference specific sections of the manual electronically on their iPads or other mobile devices since they are easier to take with them than a thick printed manual.

If you want a printed copy, you can contact the Canon Print Factory. They will let you know the cost of the printed manual prior to purchase. They're available Monday through Friday from 8am to 7pm ET at 631-330-4255. You will need to let them know you want the EOS R7 Advanced User Guide CT2-D181-B.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

justadude — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:32:29 GMT

Canon was still printing manuals after the 6D came out in 2012 (I had a manual with my 6D as well as my 60D which came out at the same time). My Canon RP is from 2019 and came with a printed manual. My recent R6m2 did NOT come with a manual, but a friend with the earlier R6 did have a thin manual. I'm thinking this is fairly recent.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

justadude — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:36:57 GMT

I blame a lot of this on the worldwide paper shortage that started during COVID once the mills shut down. I wish that was a joke. I worked for a business mail company at the time. We printed medical bills, insurance statements, and similar important documentation. We had a very hard time for two years getting paper supplies for stock, and what we did find was 2-3 times the price due to the shortage. A lot of companies went to online documentation for things like this due to the huge increase in cost AND the difficulty in even getting paper.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Tronhard — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:43:43 GMT

Well, it might be in part, but this has been a trend for quite a while. I think it was driven by the cost of production, the flak that manufacturers got for wasting materials (especially when they were often not read), and the fact that manuals changed quite quickly as firmware changes rendered them obsolete. I think these things happen for more than one reason.

If our OP's ID is an indication of age, if born in 48, a hardcopy is much more within their comfort zone, and not apparently having access to an acceptable mobile device (phone not ok and no tablet or laptop apparently), then they are stuck with getting their manual in a printed format separately.
However, I am still surprised that due diligence as to configuration was apparently not done before making the purchase.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Waddizzle — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 20:55:27 GMT

“ I blame a lot of this on the worldwide paper shortage that started during COVID once the mills shut down. “

The trend toward distributing electronic copies of manual is as old as the Internet. It began with manufacturers including a manual in the packaging and offering an electronic copy online for user to download. As products became more complicated, manufacturers included a “Quick Start” guide in the packaging.

As a higher percentage of consumers became computer owners, manufacturers eventually stopped including a a manual in the packaging. Consumers had grown accustomed to using quick start guides, anyway.

The trend of only providing electronic copies of the manual is not limited to cameras. Nearly every type of consumer electronics and products follow the same practice. From window air conditioners to lawn mowers, the full owner’s manual is available online, not in the packaging.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

skbryan — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 18:39:36 GMT

yeah, I just spent about 5K on a new camera and no manual or even a quick start guide. Sucks.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

TomRamsey — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 20:02:43 GMT

I've had several cameras with printed manuals that are still unopened in their boxes. Ever since I found out you can download a pdf copy and search it, that became the way for me. I have pdf manuals for all of my cameras on the computer, phone, and ipad. I recently bought my first Canon, an R6 mk2, and found it pretty easy to pick up on for the most part, not that much different from my Pentax DSLRs. Different, but both are logical, but definitely some thing I've had to look up, where the search comes in very handy. I can't imagine how big a 1074 page printed manual would be. But, yea, I think at least a printed quick start manual would be a nice addition for those that prefer it.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

stevet1 — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 20:24:14 GMT

I got a print manual with my T8i.

I think I used it once.

Steve Thomas

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:03:28 GMT

I think the printed manual/no printed manual concept approached the filter/no filter concept.

No amount of discussion to why it is or isn't provided won't convince anyone to change their view.

Folks talk about the problem of reading a PDF manual on their phone, but when Canon provided the printed manual, they weren't much larger than a phone, and they couldn't be zoomed. Plus, I found that the index frequently left a lot to be desired relative to finding something. Much easier to search a PDF.

Modern cameras are now basically computers that record images, and lengthy documents are required to explain everything. When I purchased my 1D X Mark III I purchased a printed copy of the PDF in 6x8 format - it was larger than my camera, 3 volumes (6x8x3 inches).

I have purchased a number of products from Nina Bailey. She produces very usable documents.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

shadowsports — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:17:34 GMT

Once upon a time... Printed Manuals.

Great for those who rely on Encyclopedia Britannica as a source of truth. Thanks to searchable .PDFs which like camera manuals can be kept up to date and current, they aren't in business any longer.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Tronhard — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 23:05:54 GMT

As my colleagues and I have said previously, there are good reasons why printed manuals are not provided any longer:

They are quickly superseded by new versions as firmware is applied to the devices to which they refer. That means there is a lot of out of date, or misinformation in old documents. A link to a web page containing a current copy is far better from an accuracy point of view.
With a soft copy, one can search for specific words of phrases if seeking a specific reference.
Hardcopy manuals are expensive to produce, and since research has shown that most people don't read the manual, and just bin it, it is not only a waste of money, but a source of waste. You don't get charged for what is not supplied.

To quote Charles Darwin: “It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” or the ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus who famously said “The only constant is change”.

The world has changed, as my respected colleague Rick says. Within that changing world, we live our lives in comfort zones: areas of behaviour within which we function with minimal stress. When we are young that comfort zone has very flexible boundaries and our job is to push those comfort zones outward, resulting in skinned knees and bangs, but also experience and a new sense of mastery. We go to school and that provides us with constant change in a structured fashion. When we stop challenging ourselves, our comfort zone hardens around us a like a shell and becomes more painful to break through in order to react to external issues that force change upon us. It also shrinks without exercise, and that diminishes our control of the world we live in, and we fear that. That is the challenge of aging and I, probably like you, have to deal with that. I embrace it as much as possible, and it's not always easy - but there is no alternative except to live in a smaller and more isolating space.

Devices are updated frequently because they contain more circuits that can be reconfigured for new features or to fix bugs. That is the nature of change - you can't stop it. I have been using cameras since 1980, along with other different devices that have passed through my hands. I can assure you that this digitization of documentation is common to all other brands, plus computers, washing machines - pretty well any modern appliance has an on-line manual. For those devices they often provide a quick refence, but if you need to go into a deep dive for some reason you scan a QR code, or follow (or type) a link to get the on-line version.

Common practice is to get a tablet and use that - not only will it allow you to conveniently access the reference materials via the web, but you can download all sorts of books to enjoy, without the cost of buying the hard copy. If you can us a smartphone or a modern PC, you can use a tablet. I assume you can since you are on this site. Those soft copy versions of documentation are free to access for reference and you can even keep download PDF versions of them onto a tablet without having to fill up bookcases, and they can travel with you.

As regards the new layout of the R7. I am surprised that you were not aware of the difference in configuration as part of your due diligence to consider the pro's and con's of the camera before you purchased. For me, that is just a normal way to avoid unwanted surprises, and to look at the new features and how relevant they may be to benefit me. It is not uncommon for cameras to change their layout as new features are added - otherwise there would be no room on the body for the extra controls. This is not unique to the R7, or Canon - many makers are doing precisely the same thing because they all face the same challenges to support the demands of the market for new features. Canon cameras have been amazingly consistent in their layout for many years, but that had to change, just as the design changed from the 1960's to 1970's etc. Change happen, and painful as they might seem as we get older, we have to live with it or embrace it and reap the benefits.

If you decide to keep the R7, despite your reservations about the body layout then, as the Moderator Stephen wrote earlier:
"If you want a printed copy, you can contact the Canon Print Factory. They will let you know the cost of the printed manual prior to purchase. They're available Monday through Friday from 8am to 7pm ET at 631-330-4255. You will need to let them know you want the EOS R7 Advanced User Guide" : CT2-D181-B. You could get a much more extensive and often more user-friendly 3rd-party book as recommended by John.

Alternatively, if you find the layout too disorienting, consider a classic layout DSLR body, like the 90D, or in the R series: the R10 which is a great camera and does not have that different control wheel configuration. If you would consider going Full Frame, then the R6 has a similar layout to the DSLRs you may be more used to. There are choices out there, but you will need to do your research.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

garymak — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:45:09 GMT

Ditto to everyone's right-on comments. I'll add six more reasons to them, the first four of which are: Spanish. French. Portuguese. German.

I don't read any of those languages, yet they are bundled with the English, creating an enormous manual that, in fact, is only 1/5 necessary for me (or, I would bet, the Spanish, French, Portuguese and Germans as well.) Years ago they used to separate them so you could just toss 3 of them in the landfill easily. For some reason, manufacturers (and we're talking about Canon in this thread) decided that it was somehow more economical to make one giant manual and forced consumers to rip out the parts they couldn't read into the landfill leaving a half-@🍑 half-shredded manual to carry around that will slowly deteriorate...

But now I just keep the digital manual - just the English one - on my phone which I always have with me when I need to do some quick checking, and on an iPad when I want to read things a bit more easily. I can also keep it updated with new editions with a quick delete & download...

The 5th reason is that these manuals are rarely generated originally in English, but rather, Japanese, since the manufacturers are all Japanese. While they have gotten better with word translations over the years (-I still have my original FTb manual from when I lived in Japan. The English is a hoot! I had to use the Japanese manual back then for a clearer explanation -) they are still based on and translated from a Japanese way of thinking and explaining things, which is not as precise (or logical) as English. In other words, half the time what I really want to know when I try consulting the printed manual isn't explained as clearly or as detailed as I need and I end up going on YouTube or other websites for the information. Which brings me to the 6th reason, a kind of extension of the 5th...

Cameras are extraordinarily complex pieces of electronic machinery today, often requiring courses (not pages, but courses) on not only how to use all the functions, but what those functions do and how they impact other functions. To cover everything in a "manual," you'd literally be publishing a college textbook-size "manual" with every camera (and if you haven't checked the prices of college textbooks recently, lets just say they are usually in the mid-3 figures.) Case in point: I'm working on improving my video skills with the R5. I'm taking a 6 part course on what all the functions are and how to use all them.

So, to hopefully summarize succinctly, the capabilities and functions of today's MILCs/DSLRs far exceed the capacity to effectively and efficiently reduce all that information down to any really useful summary that will fit within the confines of a small printed paper manual - and that will probably need updating (due to firmware/software updates) by the time you've opened the box anyway...

Yay, PDF!

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

Tronhard — Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:59:56 GMT

Mine remain in their original plastic wrapping, I always use the soft copy versions.

Re: I am extremely upset that a printed manual was not included with my EOS R7.

stevet1 — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 01:50:10 GMT

Over and above the fact that trying to find the answer to a specific question was an exercise in frustration, the printed manuals as supplied by Canon, are printed with print so small that you need a magnifying glass to read them.

Phooey.

Steve Thomas