topic Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 19:03:58 GMT

Hey there,

I recently purchased a Canon 70D, an upgrade from my previous camera, the Rebel T3i. But after doing some shooting, I've found the image quality on the 70D to actually be a downgrade from the T3i. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but I wanted to get a second opinion.

As a test, I took a few shot out front of my house. Both cameras were set in manual mode with the following settings:

ISO: 400

Shutter Speed: 1/250

Apature: f/9

These shots were both taken on the Canon 18-55 EF-S kit lens.

I opened the images up in Photoshop at 100% resolution, and compared the leaves and branches on a tree.

These were my results.

It seems clear to me that the T3i produces a much sharper and clearer image, which is a dissapointment. With the 70D being a higher price class, I was expecting the image quality to be at least as good as the Rebel series, if not better.

I'd love to hear a second opinion on this issue, or hear from anyone who might have had a similar issue.

Thanks,

Eric

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

Itaysab — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:01:24 GMT

Canon 70d focus issues.

Welcome to the club, wait for canon to admit and fix the problem.

I was never disappointed as now.

Please help us,
The 70d people.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

70Downer — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:17:49 GMT

I dont think you could have picked a worse subject as a target in a photo test. the little tree could have moved at the same time as the shutter or the camera picked a different target to aquire focus on.

I think there are problems with MANY 70D's, but that picture proves nothing. Get a high contrest taget and upload the files with all meta data so others can see if there is a difference

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:21:42 GMT

Seems like there are many other posts describing a focus issue with the 70D.

Focus modes were as follows:
70D - 19 Point Automatic Selection
T3i - 9 Point Automatic Selection

For those who wish to see the full images:
70D: http://link.ericrochford.net/70dFullRes
T3i: http://link.ericrochford.net/t3iFullRes

Also, for those who are not satisfied with the tree as the subject, take a look at the light on the house in the background, or possible the frame of the window. You can see the same effect there as on the tree.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

70Downer — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:37:53 GMT

After looking at the two full images you posted. You puposely set the 70D up to fail. You focussed on two different things, you then cropped the aera where you had the t3i focussed and chose that as the "test area"

Find a high ccontrast target, set both cameras up the same and FOCUS on the same area. Your biased test proves nothing but your bias.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:40:40 GMT

Will do some other tests with more equal subjects and repost.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

Molybdo42 — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 23:01:27 GMT

I agree that you need to take a picture of :

- identical subjects

- without moving the camera (use a tripod)

- by choosing the focus point (do not use autoselect)

- in manual mode to set : exposure, widest aperture (lowest f number), and ISO

- objects out of focus in front and behind the subject (to spot wher the plane of focus is)

Best would be that you post several pictures taken with the 70D : multiple pictures (up to 5) taken through the viewfinder, and another one taken in Liveview (IMPORTANT : use LIVE AF mode). The comparison will allow us to rule out the lens' softness (use manual mode to use the same exposure, ISO, and aperture).

You might be able to solve partially the issue with micro focus adjustment.

Use this procedure to do the MFA (use the the setup procedure detailed in "Canon's suggested Micro Focus Adjustment", and use the "Alternative Canon Liveview based focusing method" ) :

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html

If you need to apply something above +-10 on a lens (or two) who work perfectly on the 3Ti, then your camera has an issue. And if after micro focus adjustment you still don't get consistent focus, well then, welcome to the club !

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/EOS-70D-focus-issue-question/m-p/97566#U97566

The only person to have it's camera fixed had his entire focus assembly replaced (mirror, AF sensor) as well as some other things.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 15:08:42 GMT

I agree the tree subject is a poor choice. Use a stationary target, which you can d/l some from the web. Use a tripod.

Every spec on the 70D is better than any spec on the T3i.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:49:53 GMT

Part of the issue is, even though the 70D may have focused on the pine tree to the left, there is not enough depth of field that would cause everything else in the shot to become blurred. So even if my two shots aren't the best example, I still think there's something wrong with the camera. If you look at the full images and compare any area of the image, the T3i looks better no matter what.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

Itaysab — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 19:54:04 GMT

You right.
Don't let them tell you stories, focus problem !

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

Skirball — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 20:03:01 GMT

@cpderic wrote:
Part of the issue is, even though the 70D may have focused on the pine tree to the left, there is not enough depth of field that would cause everything else in the shot to become blurred. So even if my two shots aren't the best example, I still think there's something wrong with the camera. If you look at the full images and compare any area of the image, the T3i looks better no matter what.

The 70D photo isn't in focus. Plain and simple. I don't know what you focused on, but it wasn't the tree. If it is, then your camera has serious focus issues. Test charts are of limited use, but this is why we have them. Indoors, controlled light, flat static subject. Manual camera settings, manual focus (unless you're testing the AF). You need to reduce as many variables as possible to really compare two cameras.

I don't know what the issue is, and it's possible that you have a lemon. But there's absolutely no way the 70D is that soft compared to any other of its crop sensors.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Mon, 14 Jul 2014 20:40:24 GMT

@Skirball wrote:

The 70D photo isn't in focus. Plain and simple. I don't know what you focused on, but it wasn't the tree. If it is, then your camera has serious focus issues. Test charts are of limited use, but this is why we have them. Indoors, controlled light, flat static subject. Manual camera settings, manual focus (unless you're testing the AF). You need to reduce as many variables as possible to really compare two cameras.
I don't know what the issue is, and it's possible that you have a lemon. But there's absolutely no way the 70D is that soft compared to any other of its crop sensors.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cuda719 — Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:55:02 GMT

In a way, I am testing the AF. While I respect the fact that I could do much more controlled testing, I also would like a camera that is capable of preforming consistant autofocus while run-and-gunning. And if I've never had any autofocus issues with the T3i, I simply don't understand why I'm having them with the 70D. Because your letting the camera select the the focus point not you. You need to learn how the camera operates, has something all salesman leave out when purchasing a new upgraded camera. You need to but the cameras on a tripod use a image that has a lot of contrast. Have both cameras in manual select the focus point. Compose your shot then take two picures one with each camera. Then compare. As far as the run and gun statement. We first learn how to crawl before we learn how to run.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

TCampbell — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 05:00:32 GMT

The 70D has 19 AF points ... all cross-type. The T3i has 9 AF points... only one cross-type.

As with all Canon DSLR cameras... you can let the camera use any AF point it wants to lock focus.... OR you can pick the focus point you want the camera to use. If you let the camera pick the AF point, then you need to be aware that the camera will ALWAYS pick the AF point which is able to lock focus at the CLOSEST focusing distance to the camera.

If a camera is in "One Shot" mode it will insist on locking focus before it shoots. If it is in "AI Servo" mode then it WILL take the shot when you fully press the shutter button whether or not it had time to lock focus.

We know that the 70D image is soft... but we don't know why.

Unfortunately the EXIF data is incomplete in these images... I cannot check the AF point selection or the focus mode, etc.

It's entirely possible this is the camera's fault. But it's also entirely possible this is the photographer's fault. There's not enough info here.

In any case, whenever you want to test camera focus performance, you REALLY need to use controlled test conditions. The camera is just a tool. I can buy a top-end violin... but as I don't know how to play a violin, it will still just sound like I'm torturing cats.

If you don't own a commercial test chart, download a free chart... like this one: http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/focus-chart

You'll print that, follow instructions, and force the camera to use just one selected AF point (your choice), but you'll lock that point on the center of the test chart with the chart on an angle. You'll then inspect to determine if the optimum focus is spot on where you want it... or if it's closer... or if it's farther (that's why the chart is leaning back on an angle.)

You need to do many tests (not just one... one is not a representative sample size.) I deliberately de-focus the lens before each shot... doign many shots where I deliberately run focus all the way, as well as another series where I run focus all the way out. This is becuase it's possible for a lens to nail focus in one direction... and yet miss focus in the other direction.

If the camera is missing focus consistently and always in the same direction... you're in luck. The 70D has AF Microadjustment. Meaning you can tell the camera that it consistently misses focus in some direction ... for example suppose it always focuses a bit too far away... you can tell it to always focus a bit closer then it's calculated focus position to compensate. See: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/af_microadjustment_article.shtml

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

cpderic — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 05:21:47 GMT

I have done some other tests, and found that my images seem to improve if I set my af microadjustment to +10. However, I still don't feel comfortable knowing that it is a brand new camera and needs this much of an adjustment. Is it normal for a camera to need such large AF microadjustments right out of the box?

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

TCampbell — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 05:23:24 GMT

Every lens/body combination will be different.

See: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

70Downer — Wed, 16 Jul 2014 12:32:16 GMT

@TCAMPBELL

I downloaded his pictures then brought them into DPP. Both are AF one shot, auto (all points) selection . But if you look at his full size pictures for the T3i he locked the center point half way up on to the skinny tree. For the 70D he pointed it at the green tree 20+ feet to the left. Of which the camera locked on to the small clump of weeds on the ground, the closest high contrast target.

Then he took 100% crops of the skinny tree (the one he locked the t3i on) to prove his 70D has an AF problem.

I am not saying he does or doesnt have a AF problem. But this test will not help one way or another 🙂

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

hsbn — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 00:01:24 GMT

Here Campbell

Right Click to view larger size. Camera not only focus on a different object, but each use different focus mode also.

Re: 70D Image Quality Worse than T3i?

TCampbell — Thu, 17 Jul 2014 04:29:55 GMT

Ahh, yes I missed the post where the full size images were linked. I downloaded those and opened them in Canon Digital Photo Professional.

I see the T3i was in AI Servo mode and the 70D was in One Shot mode.

As yoiu've both pointed out, the cameras were locking on different subjects.

The 70D still looks like it front focused a bit but if there was a focus-and-recompose then that could explain that.

We can't really draw any conclusions from these shots because the focus targets were not on the same subject.