topic Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Rebel SL1 image quality issues

MotoArts — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 22:09:14 GMT

Hello,
Since receiving my Rebel kit for Christmas when it came out years ago, I have been rather unimpressed with its still image quality. Generally speaking, all shots appear to be out of focus along with random color saturation issues. Admittedly, my knowledge of DSLR is very miniscule, having only shot 35mm (an A-1 purchased new in the 80's, LOL) and medium format many years ago. I enjoy motorsports photography mainly, but use this camera for standard family snapshots where quality isn't front and center to me.
I've dabbled only a little in the quest to clean up the (what I'll call latent) images with settings in the camera body, but have had little to no luck.
I next to never use it for video.

Images are not short or long focused. They can be somewhat cleaned up with a photo editor, but seemingly every one needs done and have never had an image that totally impressed me even afterwards. Same/similar results come from either the 18-55 and 75-300 Canon brand lenses, although the short one is generally better. I believe that I did not edit either of the 2 bottom pics shown that were taken with the long lens. Top one may have been edited, short lens used along with a little bit of fill flash. All 3 pics were shot ISO 100, 1/60sec. shutter priority. I've tried all of the basics carried over from my A-1 days... program, shutter priority, aperture priority, full manual exposure, manual focus, ISO change... no discernible difference. Sharpness, color balance, brightness and contrast are issues.

My guess is that I'm missing something in basic setup of the body. I understand focal speak, but the electronic part has me lost.
Is there a software update available?
I haven't ruled out the "need" for a more professional, more advanced, newer body to get what I'm looking for.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

deebatman316 — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 00:18:30 GMT

Are these pictures taken in JPEG or RAW. If JPEG set the quality to large. I recommend shooting in the RAW format. Along with using Canon's free editing software. Called Canon DPP or Digital Photo Professional. A RAW File is not viewable alone. It must be converted to JPEG or some other format to be viewable. I also recommend resetting the camera back to factory default. Including custom functions they're NOT reset when you do a factory reset.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 01:16:05 GMT

I think photos 2 and 3 need more contrast in the image. In the camera is a Picture Style menu where you can customize image settings such as contrast. The same corrections can be applied with a photo editor out of camera. But if you are trying to make a better out of camera photo, the Picture Style menu is the place to start.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 03:35:15 GMT

Hello, MotoArts, and welcome to the Forum!

"I haven't ruled out the "need" for a more professional, more advanced, newer body to get what I'm looking for."

And that may well be your best option. To be honest, I am not surprised at the IQ of your images given the lenses you are using. The shots aren't terrible, but could be better with more capable glass. The SL1 is a bit long in the tooth, but still capable. The EF 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM is a fairly capable lens, but the EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 is probably, IMHO, one of Canons worse. It is the 1st iteration of that series (I think) and lacks IS, but that isn't all that makes it undesirable (I won't go into all that). I also noticed that in 2 of the 3 images that you shared, the focus point is at the bottom of the AF point array and the EXIF data suggests that you manually placed it there. I would suggest that you use the center point. I would also up the shutter speed which may mean upping the ISO as well to maintain your desired aperture. All of your examples were at 1/60th, that's pretty slow and probably added to the softness of the shots.

Screen shots from DPP 4 to show your active focus points, the red rectangles.

I would strongly suggest looking at some of the newer R series cameras and RF glass. But if you aren't ready to do that, I would at least take a look at the EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM II ($599 U.S.), it should work well with the SL1. You can also work on your focus technique, maybe switch to one point without servo. I would also start using Raw and download Canons free Digital Photo Professional to spiff up your shots. All three examples you've posted could have been made a lot better using it, maybe not focus, but sharpening, saturation, color tones, contrast. All of this can be adjusted in camera styles, as mentioned by 5DIV, but you have more control in post editing, AND, it's quite satisfying and enjoyable messing with it and bringing some life into your photos 🙂

Newton

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

Tronhard — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 23:40:20 GMT

Like you, I started my photography with the Canon A-1 and Nikon F3, bodies. In some ways I still shoot with techniques that served me well. Given you said you are not familiar with some of the digital aspects of photography, I hope you will consider some points that may improve things for you.

By default, focus systems use a matrix of points, and the camera tends to focus on the one that finds something closest to your camera. The problem with that is that it might now work for what you really want to focus on, or even cover your range of subjects if you are using an open aperture, rendering a shallower Depth of Field (DoF).

So, here is how I have set up my systems for the thick end of 20 years, and for me, this has worked well for all formats of photography but wildlife in particular.

I use a single point of focus, which I have set to the centre of the camera. I then disable the shutter button from enabling focus, this leaves the AF button on the back to set focus - this is called Back Button focus and for many photographers (but not all) is a game changer because it allows one to separate the focusing from the shutter actuation. I also set the focus system to Servo. I then set single point metering in the centre and assign that to the * button on the back of the camera.

For lots of info on BBF, see this link and watch some videos:
(5) back button focus - YouTube

This is how it works. I find my subject, to which I point the centre of the camera and tap the rear AF button - if I tap it then focus will lock but not change, but if I continue to press it, the focus will follow the object I selected. I then find something that has a mid-tone in the light range and tap the * button to lock exposure, I then compose my image and press the shutter button, to get the image. It takes a while to get used to, but once it becomes familiar it is very fast and extremely precise.

IF you decide to stick with your current camera:
I also agree with Newton - the EF75-300 range of optics IMHO, is pretty dismal - all of them. So, for general purposes I would recommend the following:

For a lower investment:

If you want to use just one lens most of the time, or even to replace the 18-55, then the 18-135 STM or USM lens is a great choice. It will offer much more range without having to change lenses, but can be used well to complement the EF 70-300 that Newton and I both respect. For more reach, the EF 70-300 IS USM MkII - a brilliant optic, with good build, and stabilization. I did an analysis of the selection of the various versions of this (sans the very expensive DO version), which you can reference here: 70-300 Canon Lenses In-Depth Analysis - Canon Community

If you keep the 18-55 lens, the EF-S 55-250 IS STM lens is an excellent optic that is cheap and has image stabilization - something you definitely want in a telephoto lens.

If you change your camera:
Since we don't know your budget, it is challenging to be too definitive in suggesting a replacement overall, however, I would recommend considering the following for your purposes.

The RF 8 is a full-frame camera that has the same sensor as the much higher-end R6MKII camera, and features like subject tracking, eye tracking and a lot of other features. You need to do your own homework and research what features work for you - we can suggest what we think, but you're making the investment.

A single optic to go with that would be the RF 24-240 IS USM. I have a fair bit of expensive L series glass, but loving using this super zoom lens for its flexibility - really for many situations, it's all I need.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

MotoArts — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 21:38:45 GMT

I have many hundreds of shots that are very similar in quality to these 2. Even with editing, they are unacceptable to me most times. I have not, however, used any of the Picture Style menu choices that you mentioned. These may be what is holding me back, along with changing from JPG to RAW format.

These are the things that are all new to me, things that aren't a part of good 'ol film photography 😊

Thank you!

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

MotoArts — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 22:12:28 GMT

Thank you for the welcome!

Over the years of dabbling with this camera, most all of the out-of-camera shots that have irked me have come from the longer lens. Not all, but probably 90+%. Being the digital noob, I just kind of assumed that this setup would yield out of the box shots to knock your socks off. Been up and down the standard "film" settings, AV, TV, M, P... and all yield the same flat, odd contrast and color. Focus, to me, isn't much the issue. Tried that manually, too. For these submitted shots, I chose the 1/60 TV to retain the camera choosing a high f/stop, considering the subject of the day. Have tried the other way as well, same result... so I kinda ruled out focus an/or DoF as the thorn in my side.

A note regarding the red squares also. If I changed it somewhere along the line, I don't see how to change it back in the settings.

I do notice consistently soft overall pics with the 75-300 vs the little guy.

I'd really like to explore and exhaust the capabilities of this body and/or lenses. My worries of the 75-300 lens being an issue may be true, along with basic training on digital equipment. If I can't truly get what I need, then I'll move on. Knowing that my cellphone takes WAY higher quality shots out of the gate that require literally zero editing irks the daylights out of me!

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

deebatman316 — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 22:24:51 GMT

Yes it is true. All of Canon's EF 75-300mm lineup is if low quality. They were all soft and had okay AF. Most lack IS or Ring Type USM AF Motors. If you're looking to replace that lens. Look in to the EF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 IS II USM lens.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

MotoArts — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 22:27:48 GMT

It was set to JPG, as I do not know what the RAW format is and what it does.

I see in the settings that it gives a choice for RAW only, or RAW/JPG. Advantages or disadvantages to either?

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

deebatman316 — Tue, 25 Jul 2023 22:33:12 GMT

RAW takes the image straight from the image sensor without any kind of processing. Your camera has to do work to convert the image from RAW to JPEG. If the camera is set to JPEG. Which means you are more limited to edit your photos. With a RAW File you can do as much editing as you can and not ruin the picture. This is because it's the raw image from the image sensor without any kind of processing.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

Waddizzle — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 00:42:30 GMT

In a previous replay you mentioned that you come from the film world, and that you are not familiar with digital photography. Digital photography was designed to emulate the film photography experience.

Your camera can save digital images that it captures in one of two formats RAW or JPG. The JPG file is a standard format that was created before the rise of digital cameras. The RAW file format is unique to each camera manufacturer.

A RAW file is the digital equivalent of film negative. A JPG file is the digital equivalent of a film print, similar to what would a Kodak Instamatic might eject, which would develop in a minute or two.

This difference between JPG and RAW files is crucial to understanding post process of a digital image. You can do a LOT with a film negative (RAW) in a darkroom to create a hard copy print (JPG).

You were very limited in what you do with a hard copy print to improve the image quality. Working with digital images is not all that different. You have many available options when working with a RAW to create a digital JPG. Your options are very limited when working with a JPG to create a cleaner or shaper looking JPG.

I suggest that you set your camera to save as RAW+JPG until you become more familiar with working with RAW files and converting them to JPG files using an app like Canon’s Digital Photo Professional 4.

If you want to take a deep dive into learning digital photography, then I suggest that you set the top dial to P mode. Once set, find the menu item that resets the camera back to factory defaults. You want to begin with all the camera settings in a known state.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

Waddizzle — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:00:44 GMT

At first glance there are two sore thumbs that stand out in your sample photos. If your shutter speed is 1/100 or slower, then that could explain your soft images. The other issue is what others have pointed out, the EF 75-300mm is not Canon’s best effort. But with careful planning you can still capture good images with the lens.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

MotoArts — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 03:06:03 GMT

Thanks Waddizzle, I do believe my next step will be to do just that, a reset with change to RAW/JPG.

I'll keep the lens issue in mind as I proceed, too. Hopefully I can get in some situations where I can swap both lenses and compare back to back in RAW. I really do like the general handling of this whole setup and would love to see it work out.

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

amfoto1 — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:58:24 GMT

While there is room for improvement in the camera itself, the biggest issues are the lenses you got in kit with it.

For better image quality... replace that EF 75-300 III. Both EF-S 55-250mm IS STM and EF 70-300mm IS USM II have been recommended and would be good choices (actually any of the Canon 70-300mm with IS and USM would help, if you shop used). I also recommend you get the matched lens hood for whatever lens you choose. That will help with flare (as seen in one of your images).

You mention sports photography, which can require fast focusing with responsive cameras and lenses. Faster frame rates help, too, but I would say are less necessary than higher performance autofocus. There are three primary types of AF drive in Canon lenses. The EF 75-300mm you have uses the slowest (and noisiest) which is called "micro motor". You can tell this type by the lack of either "STM" or "USM" markings on the lens. Those are the other two types of autofocus drive. STM is "stepper motor" and is faster, quieter and smoother than micro motor. USM is "ultrasonic motor" and is the fastest, but not the quietest type. The only lens that I know of that's been offered with all three is the EF-S 18-135mm. The first version used a micro motor. It was revised optically and got upgraded to STM. I don't know how much this improved focus performance. But still later it was upgraded again to USM (appears to use the same optics) and Canon claimed that made it 2X to 4X faster focusing than the STM version.

Actually the EF-S 18-135mm IS USM was the first lens to get a new version called "Nano" USM. This is both fast like USM and quiet like STM... best of both worlds! Most higher performance lenses that followed use Nano USM (including the EF 70-300mm IS USM "II").

Of course, another part of the AF performance equation is the camera.... The SL1 (also called an EOS 100D) is pretty basic in that respect. It's 9-point AF system dates back to the early days of digital. It shares this with Canon's even more entry-level models. In this system, only the center point is a higher performance "dual axis" type. To get the best out of the camera shooting active sports, restrict it to use only that center AF point. (Also set the AF to "AI Servo" and maybe consider using "back button focusing".)

Of course, for stationary subjects all this is less of a concern. You are probably less likely to use the EF-S 18-55mm for action photography, so may not need to upgrade that lens. Its image quality is probably more consistent than the telephoto zoom's. (There have been a bunch of different versions of 18-55mm... most seem pretty good optically.)

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2), EOS M5, some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR

Re: Rebel SL1 image quality issues

rs-eos — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 23:37:53 GMT

I personally use RAW+JPEG (but a note on that below). Gives best of both worlds where you have the original image data (RAW) with maximum flexibility to edit. Along with a JPEG image in case you need to share your photos immediately after an event.

RAW+JPEG can lead to slowdowns, especially for cameras with only a single card slot. Since the camera needs to save two files and a single card can only write so fast. So if you're planning on using continuous shooting often, your best bet is just to choose one format (RAW would definitely have my highest recommendation). Though if your SD card is slow and you really need to maximize continuous shooting, you may need to switch to JPEG (smaller files so the card can keep up better when having to save all those images).

One final note on RAW... it requires software to view (e.g. Canon's own DPP or Adobe Lightroom to name a couple).

For my setup, I use Adobe Lightroom to manage all my photos and to perform any basic edits to the RAW images. The edits though are not saved to the file, so you always have the original RAW image. You can then output from Lightroom, DPP, etc to say JPEG for sharing to others, putting up on a web site, etc. For more complicated edits, I rely upon Photoshop. Same workflow though; RAW file stays unchanged and when done with the editing, I now export to JPEG for publishing.