topic Re: Holding steady? in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:29:22 GMT

Just got back from shooting 137 photos at a loca mountain stream in the Cherokee National Forest. I played around with my T7, mostly on AV, 18-55mm lens. I had a couple of Kodak moments that proved to be a couple of blurred close-up photos. I do have a monopod which could have been used. These photos were of two snails, easy to follow but getting close to the groundproved to be a bit shaky at my age. Your comments are most welcome. Will browse through them and post a few.

Re: Holding steady?

wq9nsc — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:54:05 GMT

Might you have also run into depth of field problems given being close to the subject? Even with wider angle glass, you could have easily gotten into a very shallow depth of field with resultant critical focus concerns up close.

Otherwise, kneel and also use your elbows for support; with this type of photography and wide angle glass the monopod may be best suited as a cane for getting yourself back to vertical after the photo 🙂

You probably got into the same exposure situation that is common when shooting macro, trying to find a combination of aperture that allows sufficient depth of field while choosing a shutter speed that avoids motion blur from camera shake without sending ISO too high. I have hiked extensively in that beautiful part of the country and a huge part of the beauty is the deep shade of the forest which isn't always the best for easy photography. What were your exposure parameters?

With sports, I am often down or sometimes on the ground for shots but it definitely isn't my preferred shooting position. I took my daughter fishing to a nearby river earlier in the week and was nearly on the ground to shoot this shell. I had the camera with me and boredom had set in 🙂 Lack of sunlight wasn't an issue, 5DS R with 24-70 f2.8 @ 64mm, f7.1, 1/800, ISO 100

Rodger

Re: Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 23:41:54 GMT

I was all over the road, experimenting with settings. Most were on AV with a few on Bulb, TV, Manual and Auto. I was pretty much satisfied with the photos except for the blur due to shaking. Lens was set between 18 and 55 mm. Tried to track down a photo for an example but they are downloaded in a place i can't access directly with the image icon on the tool bar here. Edit- For some reason, it downloaded the photos to my landscape folder. Comments are welcome.

Re: Holding steady?

wq9nsc — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 23:47:57 GMT

Take a look at the shutter speed for the images with camera shake blur to see what shutter speed was selected.

Minimum "safe" shutter speed based upon the reciprocal of lens focal length (with mm multiplied by 1.6 given the APS C sensor in the Rebel) is JUST a rule of thumb. It is based upon an average photographer under typical conditions but crouching in an uncomfortable position to take a close up at ground level is going to force most people to a higher shutter speed in order to avoid camera shake issues.

If you have the steadiness of a long range sniper then you will be able to have reasonable success going with a somewhat slower shutter speed but most of us don't.

The overwhelming majority of time I am shooting fast action sports with shutter speed fast enough to freeze motion and even with long telephoto glass camera shake isn't a serious concern. So on those occasions where I need to keep the camera very steady I have to consciously focus upon camera behavior that I usually don't have to practice. And on occasion I will hold my breath and choose the perfect slow and smooth shutter release just like I used to use when target shooting.

Rodger

Re: Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 00:06:26 GMT

Rodger, here are the settings- 1/40, f/10, 55mm, ISO 100. Will look at blurred photo settings as you suggest.

Re: Holding steady?

wq9nsc — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 00:55:22 GMT

You need a faster shutter speed to avoid camera shake, especially when you are in an awkward position. You can probably open the aperture a bit wider and you could definitely let ISO go higher allowing for a more reasonable shutter speed.

I suspect that f 6.3, 1/250 or 1/320, ISO 400 would have been a good setup, maybe f/8 if you were shallow on depth of field at f 6.3.

The ease of setup is one of the reasons I like manual exposure with auto ISO. I set the shutter speed to at least fast enough to avoid blur from either subject motion or camera shake (whichever requires the fastest speed based upon subject motion and lens focal length), set aperture to what I need for depth of field, and if the ISO is within reason it is good to go.

You can fine tune aperture and shutter speed as you feel is best to get the combination you need. It is a great way to get the feel for the exposure triangle and to me it is one fo the best "semi-automatic" setups for a modern DSLR. I always shoot in RAW so that I can best correct for exposure issues and make any other needed corrections.

Rodger

Re: Holding steady?

FloridaDrafter — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 04:48:49 GMT

@Tintype_18 wrote:
I was all over the road, experimenting with settings. Most were on AV with a few on Bulb, TV, Manual and Auto. I was pretty much satisfied with the photos except for the blur due to shaking. Lens was set between 18 and 55 mm. Tried to track down a photo for an example but they are downloaded in a place i can't access directly with the image icon on the tool bar here. Edit- For some reason, it downloaded the photos to my landscape folder. Comments are welcome.

Tintype, as Rodger stated, you need to get your shutter speed up some how. I have benign tremors and have struggled with them for over 15 years. I mostly use Tv for that reason when using a long lens and shooting tiny birds, but I would have used Av for this shot, as I always do for closeups and macro. I have to push my ISO to the limits to get good DOF when in Av just to get my shutter speed fast enough to compensate for my tremors, plus I depend on IS. Also, I try my best to trust the camera to get the shot right when I press the shutter, i.e., don't do a "half press" then pause to see if the image is in focus, just snap it and hopefully, you will see your focus point glow red or hear the chirp (I have the focus chirp enabled), I also take a lot of shots of the same subject. I ususally will get a few good images. The T7 should be fast enough to get focus quickly. I have a T7i and the lens you used, so I'm relatively confident it is fast enough for you to do that. If you pause [EDIT] the slightest movement, a breath or even the act of pressing the shutter, will take you out of that focal plane [EDIT], even with a monopod, which I also sometimes use for macro. The T7 does not tolerate high ISO, say like 1000-1200ish, so it's a strugle with that camera to balance shutter/ISO/aperture, I know because I have used that combo. At those ISO's, with shots taken with the T7i, I usually have to use noise reduction in post. If DPP doesn't clean it up enough, I use Topaz Denoise.

I do take medication for my tremors, but it doesn't always work or it makes me a little woozy, oh wo is me, LOL! Those are just some of the tricks I use as a person with tremors. My primary camera is the 5D mark IV, but we have cameras stationed all through the house at various windows because you never know what you are going to see, like when I'm cooking, I have a 7D mark II and EF 70-300mm L by the kitchen window ready to go ;). The 5D4 handles ISO well, so I seldom have a problem with fast shutter speed and high ISO in low light.

Re: Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:32:05 GMT

FD, many thanks for sharing your techniques. I like to take multiple shots so I can pick out the best ones. I started with the 75-300 lens but found it didn't work on the close up shots; changed to the 18-55 for the rest of the day. I ran out of time yesterday. There is more to see on up the creek (don't need a paddle lol) that would make some great photos. Got it on the to-do iost for the nexr few days. Would like to take t he wife to handle t he camera and fish a bit. Landscape photos, flowers and plants, and fish...what could be better.

My wife has lots of flowers at the front of the house. Would like to practice in still and breezy conditions to experiment with fast settings.

I like to experiment with different settings. My jpg photos on Explorer will pull up data as date, time and all camera settings. Yesterday, I reviewed them and mentally noted what I had done.

Re: Holding steady?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:44:54 GMT

"... here are the settings- 1/40, f/10, 55mm, ISO 100."

For where you appear to be these settings are probably not the best. I usually use ISO 200 for "general" outdoor stuff. Most cameras seem to like it better than ISO 100 if that is the lowest ISO. Cameras don't like the lowest ISO or the highest. I typically avoid them if I can. So first, just use ISO 200 on the next outing.

For shots like the leaf the difference between Av and Tv is minor. Use the one that you think needs the preference. I use Av or P almost all the time. Tv very much less and full manual even less. Keep in mind you do not have a macro lens. There will be a limit to how well it will do at very close focus ranges.

However, all that said your shot can be improved a bit in post edit. It is a bit small, you don't have to make them that small to post them here. But some can be recovered in post.

This is a simple "levels" adjustment (one click) in Photoshop. Your WB (white balance) is way off, to me, so that is corrected too. A little amount of unsharp mask and your shot is pretty nice. Don't you think?

Re: Holding steady?

FloridaDrafter — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:22:50 GMT

@Tintype_18 wrote:
FD, many thanks for sharing your techniques. I like to take multiple shots so I can pick out the best ones. I started with the 75-300 lens but found it didn't work on the close up shots; changed to the 18-55 for the rest of the day. I ran out of time yesterday. There is more to see on up the creek (don't need a paddle lol) that would make some great photos. Got it on the to-do iost for the nexr few days. Would like to take t he wife to handle t he camera and fish a bit. Landscape photos, flowers and plants, and fish...what could be better.
My wife has lots of flowers at the front of the house. Would like to practice in still and breezy conditions to experiment with fast settings.
I like to experiment with different settings. My jpg photos on Explorer will pull up data as date, time and all camera settings. Yesterday, I reviewed them and mentally noted what I had done.

You are very welcome. I just hope that my experience as a "shaky shooter" can help, even if it's a small bit. We all do different things to achieve our visions and faithfully reproduce what we saw, at least, that's my goal.

I sometimes shoot in the Appalachians, about 100 miles north of where you shot the leaf. Lighting can be tough, so I understand.

I don't suggest that you use these settings, but it's what I had to do to reproduce the scene and compensate for my shakes. It took very little in post.

Tv 1/400, f/5, ISO a whopping 4000. It was very dark under the forest canopy with dappled sun and I wanted to reproduce that feeling. Camp Creek State Park, just north of you about 100 miles.

Re: Holding steady?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 21:29:06 GMT

Even a fairly good and sharp photo can benefit from some post editing in PS with unsharp mask. Near 100% crops.

Re: Holding steady?

FloridaDrafter — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 21:30:46 GMT

@FloridaDrafter wrote:

"I don't suggest that you use these settings, but it's what I had to do to reproduce the scene and compensate for my shakes. It took very little in post.

Tv 1/400, f/5, ISO a whopping 4000. It was very dark under the forest canopy with dappled sun and I wanted to reproduce that feeling. Camp Creek State Park, just north of you about 100 miles."

I know, a different lens would have been a better choice, but that was all I had with me. I made do with what I had 😉 I had a 50mm and 24mm in the car, but my target was birds in the canopy and I didn't feel like carrying a pack up the mountain, LOL.

Newton

Re: Holding steady?

FloridaDrafter — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 21:53:55 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Even a fairly good and sharp photo can benefit from some post editing in PS with unsharp mask. Near 100% crops.

Great tip, Ernie! I use the unsharp mask in DPP and sometimes a standalone tool by Topaz.

I'm pretty sure Tintype uses PS Elements, so he should be able to do the same.

Newton

Re: Holding steady?

wq9nsc — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:07:26 GMT

Thanks Ernie!

This would have also been a very good application for a macro lens but to get there I had to descend about 100 feet of very slick riverbank using a rope so I kept gear to a minimum.

Rodger

Re: Holding steady?

FloridaDrafter — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:14:47 GMT

@wq9nsc wrote:
Thanks Ernie!

This would have also been a very good application for a macro lens but to get there I had to descend about 100 feet of very slick riverbank using a rope so I kept gear to a minimum.

Rodger

My situation wasn't that bad (for the shot I posted), LOL, but sometimes you just have to make do with what you have at the time 🙂

Newton

Re: Holding steady?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:53:32 GMT

"... sometimes you just have to make do with what you have at the time"

That's why you always post edit and under less than idea conditions it is mandatory if you want the best possible. Plus you always, always shoot Raw.

Re: Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:53:09 GMT

I'm in the process of learning PSE and have a very basic grasp of DDP4. I can see the difference in the shell photos. Thanks for the photos. EB, I shoot in jpg and RAW just for the fun of it as I have lots of film. My thought is jpg is for photos that I probably won't edit but RAW for photos that I might submit for magazine publication and articles. All the photos I took recently were both formats.

Got another area farther up in the wildreness area. Some great scenery there, well worth keeping for the future. Watching the weather next week.

Re: Holding steady?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:12:42 GMT

Shooting jpg at all is a waste of “film”.😀

Re: Holding steady?

kvbarkley — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 18:31:15 GMT

I prefer to get it right in the camera, and further tweaking is not necessary

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm

ebiggs, I should have mentioned it before, but when you added a large moon to my image of the tree, lights and small moon at the Fields of Light, I felt that you ruined my carefully composited image. Would you do the same to "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico"?

There is room for plenty of workflows and philosophies of Photography.

Re: Holding steady?

Tintype_18 — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 23:23:16 GMT

kvb, I pulled up the Rockwell link and found it to be very interesting. I will like to save it and read it in detail later. Getting close to my beddy bye time.