topic Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens in EOS DSLR & Mirrorless Cameras

Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Wed, 17 May 2023 03:07:03 GMT

I am hoping for help in figuring out some settings, when it comes to having more speed I understand setting 1/200-1/2000 we will say. Now when it comes to the settings that are in fractions I have a problem, I am set up on a tripod in a blind taking pictures, when at 400mm I am set to 1/1200-1/1600 to capture the speed with which turkey and deer move but my images are darker than I would like. Is there a setting that will still allow me to capture the speed with which these animals move but give me cleaner/bright results? I am shooting anywhere from 10 yards to 200 (9144mm-182880mm) (9.144-182.88meters) yards out or more if larger animals like deer.

Camera is a Canon eos M50 and the lens is a Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM LensLook George, it's a girl!

Re: Settings Help

Tiffany — Wed, 17 May 2023 02:58:09 GMT

Welcome to the Canon forum!

So that the Community can help you better, we will need to know which model camera you have? Any other details you'd like to give will only help the Community better understand your issue.

Re: Settings Help

Far-Out-Dude — Wed, 17 May 2023 03:06:54 GMT

I added that information and thank you for the welcome. Oh these are early morning shots for the most part around 6:30 A.M. - 9:00 A.M.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

rs-eos — Wed, 17 May 2023 03:09:08 GMT

What mode are you using? Manual? If so, as you increase the shutter, you need to compensate by widening your aperture and/or increasing ISO.

I recommend learning about the exposure triangle. Also, check out the Tv (Shutter Priority) mode on your camera which lets you specify the shutter speed and the camera will select an aperture and ISO. You can additionally fine tune things via exposure compensation.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Wed, 17 May 2023 03:30:23 GMT

Looking at your images, my first reaction would be that the camera is metering for the grass, which I would actually expect to be about 18% Greyscale, a sensor's "normal" value. If you want the birds to be a touch faster, then you want to try using exposure compensation to persuade the sensor to meter for a consistently brighter image. This is one area where the Canon M5 is IMHO showing its superiority as a stills camera, as it has a dial right on top of the camera body for this purpose, while the M50 does not. Still, one of the directional presses on the M50 control dial should bring up the option to change the EV value. If you do so, I would suggest trying about 1/3 or 2/3 + EV and see how you go.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Wed, 17 May 2023 03:41:51 GMT

I am normally shooting in Tv (Shutter Priority) mode or Manual Mode. I have had very poor luck using exposure compensation on wildlife though very good luck on landscapes. I have learned the exposure triangle, I do not like all the noise I get when adjusting the ISO for brightness though. I will let you know I have major problems with numbers, I have all my life, I have Dyscalculia which is basically Dyslexia with numbers so I have a very hard time with my settings and so many other things in life. This is why my landscapes look better than my wildlife shots, I can keep shooting landscape shots til I get it right but can't the wildlife.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Wed, 17 May 2023 04:04:08 GMT

Yes the grass bothers me, seems to come in rather oddly to me compared to how the old 70-300 I was using did. I have seemed to have problem with exposure compensation, I set for 1 stop over or two stops over but have not been happy with the images. I know a lot is learning the new lens and it will come in time, but Spring turkey season is only once a year and I was hoping I would be doing better with it. I have not had problems shooting geese at all, they seem to come in much better for me but they are not moving as quickly.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Wed, 17 May 2023 04:15:30 GMT

I struggle to understand why this is a lens issue. Yes, I understand you say that you got better exposures with the 70-300, but the 100-400L MkiI is an outstanding optic and should not degrade exposure. I don't have the M50, so I cannot attempt to replicate your issues, but I still suspect that you need to adapt how you are setting up metering with your camera. It is more challenging to get into more detail if I can't see exactly what the issue is with the images compared to your old system. What MAY be happening is that the optic is exposing weaknesses in the performance of the M50, which is not in the same league as regards performance, particularly as the most of the images you post are back-lit resulting in greater contrast. As I have said, given the blackness of the birds, and the fact that the images I am seeing are mostly back lit, my suspicion is that you have a lot of contrast to deal with and exposure compensation is likely to fix that, but it will cause the grass to be over-exposed. An alternative might be to bring the images into post-production software and use an increase and shadows and reduction of highlights to bring those contrasting extremes together.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Wed, 17 May 2023 04:20:29 GMT

I have not finished reading your comment but let me correct one thing before I go back to read the rest, it is NOT a problem with the lens, I have some wonderful images with the lens that I could never get with my old lens. What I mean is it is a ME learning the new lens and how to work it, not a problem with the lens at all.

Edit: Okay yes I agree, it could be it showing weaknesses in my camera though I do not understand why I have some images that are incredible and others that are not without much change?

One thing I wonder is if my camera simply is not very good in darker light? My pictures later in the day seem to be much better. I intend to upgrade to hopefully something in the R6 range but that will not happen until next year.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Wed, 17 May 2023 04:29:47 GMT

Now you have read my complete post, I hope you now understand that I see no problem with the lens per se, what I am trying to say is that the dynamic range of the camera, for the images where the subjects are dark and back lit by quite strong light, may not be up to the results you want.

You said "One thing I wonder is if my camera simply is not very good in darker light?" The images I see have plenty of light, but not much of it is lighting the subject from in front. Essentially, my first reaction is that you are shooting from the wrong location - if you were on the other side of the birds, with the sun shining from behind you, or slightly to one side, you might get much better results.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

stevet1 — Wed, 17 May 2023 07:33:17 GMT

Far-Out-Dude,

Do you know how to change the metering mode on your camera?

One thing you might try for the close-up shots of your turkeys, is to put your turkeys in the center of your frame and change to Partial Metering.

Your camera will meter off the dark turkeys and bring out more detail.

(You have to keep them in the center of your frame though).

This will probably lighten up your grass too, and you'll have to judge for yourself if it's too light.

For the far away shots, it would probably be better to leave it in Evaluative Metering mode and use a positive exposure compensation of one third stop or two thirds..

Steve Thomas

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Wed, 17 May 2023 08:15:00 GMT

Steve, can I suggest checking out the direction of the sun in the majority of these images. The subjects appear to be backlit, and the tonal value of the grass is about right. So, we have a black subject, in the shadow because the sun is behind them, but the background is correctly lit. I was tempted to go with the same advice as you initially, but upon consideration, I have to suggest that the position of fhe subject relative to the photographer is creating too great a contrast. The point being, the photographer needs to be on the other side of the subjects and then, very likely, both subject and background will have a lot less contrast between them.

One of the skills from working with wildlife is to anticipate the fall of light relative to the subject for a particular time o day and position oneself accordingly. I think this is a case in point.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

stevet1 — Wed, 17 May 2023 12:42:18 GMT

Trevor,

I agree with you. Looking at the close-up shots of the turkeys, you can see the light falling on their backs. If it were falling on their fronts, it would be a whole lot easier.

Steve Thomas

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Thu, 18 May 2023 23:38:32 GMT

Hello everyone, I am very sorry for the delay in replying, yesterday was a get out of bed, hop in the shower and out the door day because somebody made all my plans change with a single phone call day.

Okay I just grabbed my camera to double check and it is indeed in Evaluative Metering mode which I have been using at all distances. I will be sure to only use it at distance now, thank you very much. I will try the sorry can't recall what it is called but 2-3 Fstops above and below again and see if I can get better results using the proper Metering mode at each distance.

Sun would rise to my right and then move to my back but my blind is set into the woods so the trees would be blocking the sun quite a bit until later in the morning.

I will be moving from this location at some point very soon as the grass is getting much to tall to see anything in, I will try to remember to work the sun better in the next spot.

The one problem I do have is I have to set up before turkey season starts and I have to be sure not to be crowding the landowners as well as knowing where the turkey tend to go, the problem being is they tend to go right where I am set up so I have to shoot from there for that location. I know two places I want to be but the one is forward of this spot at the next treeline and that area is at an extreme angle and I am unable to set up my chair and blind there, if I were still able bodied and did not need the blind to cover up my movements due to pain I could just sit on the ground the way I used to before my accident in 2021, I have only been able to get back in the woods for about 6 years now and have had to learn to do it a different way. The other spot I want to set up the one owner would be in close proximity and that does not work with both of us calling to get the turkey to come to us. One place I want to be is to the left of this and forward 100 yards so I could photograph the turkey with the sun in the tail feathers, this is one of my dream pictures but that would only be 25 yards further away from the last place I mentioned and I do not want the owners mad at me or I will not be welcome back and it is the only place I can set up ahead of time leaving the blind and chair in the blind as well as tripod.

I think I replied to each question, I have been up since yesterday basically so I am tired so I am sorry if I missed anything.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Thu, 18 May 2023 23:57:25 GMT

"it is indeed in Evaluative Metering mode which I have been using at all distances. I will be sure to only use it at distance now, thank you very much. I will try the sorry can't recall what it is called but 2-3 F-stops above and below again and see if I can get better results using the proper Metering mode at each distance."
If you are going to use evaluative metering then you will definitely need to work either in full Manual mode or use the EV compensation feature. In your images the camera has metered for the overall area, which is actually correctly exposed, but of course the animals, being black and in shadow, are under exposed. As I mentioned, if you were to expose for the birds, then likely the grass will be over-exposed because the contrast is too great. In fact, where the birds in your first two shots are side lit, the exposure on the plumage looks about right. I still think the answer is to shoot when the sun is not right behind the animals, as it clearly is in the samples you posted.

An alternative to evaluative metering is to use single-point or spot metering, and lock the metering values in when you are zoomed in to your subject. Once the metering is locked, you can zoom out or recompose and take your shot. I am not familiar with the M50, but the M5 (which is better set up for stills IMHO) had both an EV dial and exposure lock button, making these things much easier.
As far as the location goes, I understand your dilemma and you have my sincere sympathies. That said, you can't argue with the physics.
"Sun would rise to my right and then move to my back but my blind is set into the woods so the trees would be blocking the sun quite a bit until later in the morning."
What you need to do is find a time of day when the birds are generally front lit, or at least not predominantly backlit and see if you can get some shots. In the end, if the light isn't working, sometimes one has to just put it down to experience.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Fri, 19 May 2023 00:13:24 GMT

As I stated the sun is not behind them, the sun would come up from my front right and travel to the right and above and behind me as the morning goes on. I am tired, maybe I typed it wrong, heck I just tried to type typed with two I"s I am so tired. The sun ends up behind me, if behind them it would be in my face. maybe saying it that way would be better? Not trying to jump at you in any way, hope it does not come off that way, sometimes my ADD makes me a bit dense and I do not get things right off.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Fri, 19 May 2023 00:21:54 GMT

I have to run to bed, 3:A.M. comes mighty early but I will reply tomorrow.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Fri, 19 May 2023 00:27:48 GMT

PLEASE GO AND GET SOME REST!!!!

Then read the rest when you feel better.
You absolutely posted ok, but I don't completely agree with you. Let's look at the images you posted - the light and dark patches are pretty clear:
#1 & #2: The sun is higher, but looks more behind and to the side, it certainly isn't in front of the birds. I assume they were taken earlier in the shoot. Those are where the birds are closest to you.

#3 & #4: The sun does seem to be more in front, but the issue is that they are so far away and if you are shooting at the max focal length of your lens (I assume it is the EF 100-400) then your best hope is that the birds graze closer to you when the sun is more behind you.

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Far-Out-Dude — Sat, 20 May 2023 02:15:02 GMT

I have a picture I can not seem to get to post even though I have resized it 3 times and it was one minute earlier on the same day that turned out perfect, that is the main reason I disagree with you. I do agree it is to the right side of them no doubt and slightly behind, I just don't understand why the one turned out perfect and the others did not. The only think I can come up with is cloud in a different position? Oh I forgot to mention that one reason the distance shot did not turn out well as I had forgotten to move the switch from 3m and under to the other position that is for distance. Not sure if this will work but this is the other picture. https://prnt.sc/b5FDUlAGmkot

Here is the photo before it was edited, you will see I removed the beard of a turkey following behind it and just tweaked it very little. https://prnt.sc/lchaPNi5EpOc

Re: Settings Help for EOS M50 and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens

Tronhard — Sat, 20 May 2023 02:15:01 GMT

We are doomed to disagree on the first two images you posted. The side of the bird closest to you is clearly in shadow, while the sides and top are lit to varying degrees producing significant contrast and shadows caused by the overhanging necks of the birds' necks and heads.

Looking at the image you just posted it seems apparent to me that there was no direct sunlight: i.e. the light intensity was altered by the sun being behind a cloud, putting the whole bird and background in shadow and significantly reducing your contrast. The results a dramatically different.
It is tempting to shoot when the sun is shining brightly on one's subject, but that can be problematic, for example in shooting portraits or group shots for events I always put my subjects in relative shadow to reduce the contrast and that allows a much wider gamut of tones and colours.

The shot you just posted reflects that and is one to be proud of!