topic Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help! in EF & RF Lenses

Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Summerlee340 — Sun, 21 May 2017 13:35:51 GMT

Okay, so it could be me - I'm not a total noob, but who knows. Been shooting with my Canon Rebel T3i for several years. Mostly used my 55-250 kit lens and at times I got some tack sharp photos from that lens

Regarding my new 100-400 vii lens, I have yet to get a crisp shot - the shots are just okay to me. Granted I am hand holding the camera and lens when trying to take photos, and it is a bit heavy (mostly of birds and wildlife) but I do have the IS on. I usually shoot on M but lately I've been using TV mode - my photos are okay but they just are not sharp enough. I have it on AF - and sometimes it takes a few seconds to focus.

Even with my tripod, again, the shots are okay - some are passable, but I know what sharp is as I've taken a few with my 55-250 and so far I'm not cutting it.

I usually have the lens to full zoom at 400 and I try to keep the shutter speed at least 400 as I've read the focal length should be reciprocal to the shutter speed. My histogram looks great quite often...

Question/Issues: Perhaps I am too far away from my subject? Birds are so skittish so I usually stand maybe 20 feet away.

I thought with the larger zoom that meant I wouldn't have to be as close to my subject .

So am I too far away?

If someone has a few moments, perhaps I can get some advice or point me to a great website....Thanks very much.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Canonfanboy — Sun, 21 May 2017 14:27:51 GMT

Because of manufacturing tolerances you may need to do an AFMA. Your camera does not support Auto Focus Manual Adjustment. The best thing you can do is return the lens in exchange for another and hope you get one that matches your camera, or upgrade to a camera that supports AFMA. Your lens is a good lens, it just needs help matching you camera.

What AFMA does is allow you to change where you are focusing in relation to the subject. If you are focusing slightly in front of or behind the subject you'd be able to make an adjustment to be spot on.

Even with a pro level camera, sometimes AFMA must be done to match lens and camera. This isn't a problem with the camera or lens. This has to do with manufacturing tolerances.

The good news is that maybe you are able to upgrade the camera to one that supports AFMA. As far as IS goes... I recommend leaving it off for moving subjects. Also, try using AP mode instead of TV. For birds, especially small ones, you need a faster shutter than 1/400. Much faster. Set for widest aperture in AP mode, have good light, and see what happens.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

TTMartin — Sun, 21 May 2017 14:59:51 GMT

@Summerlee340 wrote:
Okay, so it could be me - I'm not a total noob, but who knows. Been shooting with my Canon Rebel T3i for several years. Mostly used my 55-250 kit lens and at times I got some tack sharp photos from that lens

Regarding my new 100-400 vii lens, I have yet to get a crisp shot - the shots are just okay to me. Granted I am hand holding the camera and lens when trying to take photos, and it is a bit heavy (mostly of birds and wildlife) but I do have the IS on. I usually shoot on M but lately I've been using TV mode - my photos are okay but they just are not sharp enough. I have it on AF - and sometimes it takes a few seconds to focus.

Even with my tripod, again, the shots are okay - some are passable, but I know what sharp is as I've taken a few with my 55-250 and so far I'm not cutting it.

I usually have the lens to full zoom at 400 and I try to keep the shutter speed at least 400 as I've read the focal length should be reciprocal to the shutter speed. My histogram looks great quite often...

Question/Issues: Perhaps I am too far away from my subject? Birds are so skittish so I usually stand maybe 20 feet away.

I thought with the larger zoom that meant I wouldn't have to be as close to my subject .

So am I too far away?

If someone has a few moments, perhaps I can get some advice or point me to a great website....Thanks very much.

1/400 is way too slow of a shutter speed for bird photography. The 1/focal length applies to camera shake, not moving.

subjects.

I normally use 1/1600 for bird photography and Mode 3 on the IS.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

ebiggs1 — Sun, 21 May 2017 15:08:32 GMT

Now for the correct answer.

First AFMA does NOT make a lens, any lens, sharper. It simply moves the critical focus point forward or backward.

The reciprocal of the lens is a good idea but it is only a starting point, or a minimum if you will. You said 1/400 or better. But remember your 400mm on your T3i is acting like a 640mm lens. Now you need to keep the lowest suggested SS to at least that. 1/1000 is better. 640mm is some serious focal length and it will bring all the benefits and faults of 640mm with it. Everything, not just the subject is magnified the same amount.

The EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens is a very good lens. As good or better than any out there. I would suggest it is your technique that is letting you down. A simple way to determine this is to mount the camera/lens on a sturdy tripod and shoot a stationary subject. Something with some detail in it. Do it outside on a nice day and try several distances and apertures. This way you will know exactly what your gear can do.

Now as for IS. IS is a crutch, it isn't a cure all. It also has a degrading ability, meaning the farther away from perfect, the less it helps. For instance, you will get the best help, or result, from it with say a 1 stop error. If the miss exposure is say 4 stops the results won't be as good. In short the more perfect things are the more perfect IS can be. Also remember IS is gear oriented not subject oriented.

Birds are small. The closer the better.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

ebiggs1 — Sun, 21 May 2017 15:14:02 GMT

Summerlee340,

"The best thing you can do is return the lens in exchange for another and hope you get one that matches your camera ..."

This is a last, very last option. If the lens simply, no matter what, will not preform call Canon Support before returning.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Canonfanboy — Sun, 21 May 2017 15:42:22 GMT

Nice shots!!!

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Canonfanboy — Sun, 21 May 2017 15:58:40 GMT

Canon support can't help with machining tolerances unless they are out of tolerance. Returning to the purchase point and exchanging might. That is what I would do in that situation. I think she's smart enough to figure out the order of my advice. You did. Didn't you?

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Canonfanboy — Sun, 21 May 2017 15:55:21 GMT

Nobody said or implied that AFMA makes a lens sharper. It is a function of the camera... as stated in the post.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Waddizzle — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:00:52 GMT

"I usually have the lens to full zoom at 400 and I try to keep the shutter speed at least 400 as I've read the focal length should be reciprocal to the shutter speed. My histogram looks great quite often...

Question/Issues: Perhaps I am too far away from my subject? Birds are so skittish so I usually stand maybe 20 feet away.

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You say that you're 20 feet away. That's roughly 7 meters, or the length of a full size, pickup truck.

Pay attention to the Focus Mode switch on the lens, the one that sets a focusing distance.. It can mean the difference betweeen almost sharp and tack sharp.

I have also found that using a minimum shutter speed of 1/1000 when shooting wildlife raises my keeper rate. I like to shoot in Manual Mode with ISO set for Auto. I zoom down to 100mm, and set the f/stop and the minimum, f/4.5. Now I am ready to shoot. The f/stop will vary between f/4.5 and f/5.6, the minimum aperture, as I vary the focal length.

That combination of settings may result in the ISO getting set too high for your tastes. You can set an upper limit on what the camera can use in the menus. I would try 3200, and see how that looks to you. But, first try it without any limit set. If the camera hits the limit, the viewfinder exposure settings will flash, which means you must slow down the shutter to stop the flashing.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Summerlee340 — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:15:45 GMT

Great photos,TTM. Thanks for your reply. Right now I am not trying to get action shots of the birds - I am after crispness so I've been taking photos of them when they are stationary (which doesn't last that long!) and then looking at my photos to see how they look. Do you think I should still up my shutter speed even though I am taking them when they're still?

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

TTMartin — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:18:39 GMT

@Summerlee340 wrote:
Great photos,TTM. Thanks for your reply. Right now I am not trying to get action shots of the birds - I am after crispness so I've been taking photos of them when they are stationary (which doesn't last that long!) and then looking at my photos to see how they look. Do you think I should still up my shutter speed even though I am taking them when they're still?

Yes, you should up your shutter speed, bird are seldom truly still even when they are sitting in a tree.

Minimum shutter speed should be 1/800 and since you're not use to holding that large of a lens closer to 1/12000.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Summerlee340 — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:19:34 GMT

Thank you! I will definitely try that with my tripod. I did think about doing that - I so prefer hand hold though, but I will check out your suggestion. What do you mean by "miss exposure is 4 stops".

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Summerlee340 — Sun, 21 May 2017 17:35:26 GMT

I just tried your suggestion (took photo of a squirrel hanging out on my bench) did 1/1000, Manual, Auto ISO, zoomed to 100 set to 4.5 as you said. The photo at 100 was decent and the one at 400 was much better than I have been shooting. Is it really that simple? I will keep trying this with birds next, except they tend to fly away when they see that humongous lens. Regarding your second paratraph, are you speaking about the little window on the lens that shows the distance in "ft" and "m"?Can you explain a little more as to the focus mode on the lens and why it makes a difference. Also, if you have time for this question - should I set the switch on the lens to "full" or "infinity"?

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

ScottyP — Sun, 21 May 2017 18:04:56 GMT

I would stick to Av or Tv mode. Especially if you are already having other issues (sharpness) to work through I don't think there's any reason to take on all the variables you have to handle on Manual just to get a proper exposure. Let the camera handle exposure while you concentrate on getting your sharpness and technique dialed in.

Especially if you are out in lots of light you can still indirectly control aperture in Tv mode; slow the shutter and the camera will compensate by stopping down. Speed up the shutter and the camera will compensate by opening up the aperture.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Waddizzle — Sun, 21 May 2017 18:56:04 GMT

@Summerlee340 wrote:
I just tried your suggestion (took photo of a squirrel hanging out on my bench) did 1/1000, Manual, Auto ISO, zoomed to 100 set to 4.5 as you said. The photo at 100 was decent and the one at 400 was much better than I have been shooting. Is it really that simple? I will keep trying this with birds next, except they tend to fly away when they see that humongous lens. Regarding your second paratraph, are you speaking about the little window on the lens that shows the distance in "ft" and "m"?Can you explain a little more as to the focus mode on the lens and why it makes a difference. Also, if you have time for this question - should I set the switch on the lens to "full" or "infinity"?

Yes, it can really be that simple.

One rule of thumb to always get sharp photos is to grab as much light [wide aperture] as you can, as quickly [fast shutter speed] as you can, and with as lilttle effort [low ISO] as you can. Using ISO 100 applies the least amplification to the image sensor signal, which means the least noise. Higher and higher ISO settings mean more and more amplification, which means more and more noise.

Be familiar with the depth of field of the lens, too. Once I set a shutter speed and an aperture, I typically don't want to change them, most especially the aperture.

http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html

The switch on the lens sets up focus over the full range, from the minimum of 1 meter to infinity. Or, you can restrict the lens to just 3 meters to infinity. One setting is best for close subjects, while the other setting is best for subjects more than 10 feet away. I would try using the second setting in your "12 feet away" example.

What focus point are you using? Manually select the center AF point, because it is the most accurate. Don't let the camera choose an AF point for you. If your distance to your subject isn't changing, then you may want to use One Shot mode.

Use AI Servo mode if your subject's distance is changing so much that it leaves your DOF. AI Servo can work for stationary subjects, too, but I think One Shot works best in those scenarios. Using AI Servo effectively takes practice, and good grasp on how it dynamically adjusts focus. On some camera bodies, the differences between the dynamic focusing modes can be as subtle as they can be complex, especially when the body has dozens of AF points.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

ebiggs1 — Sun, 21 May 2017 19:20:58 GMT

Of all the good/bad suggestions you have received so far, this one is probably the most important; "Don't let the camera choose an AF point for you." Select just the center point and turn all the others off. Your technique is one of the most important aspects of photography. Setting up the gear correctly for the conditions is next. Lastly, you absolutely have to have a good post editor.

Take Scotty's advice and use either Tv or Av. I prefer a fixed ISO and for normal daylight, I like ISO 800. Adjust as necessary. Most of the time I fix the tele one stop down from wide open. One other thing that may help is high speed shutter. Even slight changes in birds activity can make a big difference in sharpness. Also, nobody gets 100% keepers. Everybody misses from time to time.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Waddizzle — Sun, 21 May 2017 21:05:00 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Of all the good/bad suggestions you have received so far, this one is probably the most important; "Don't let the camera choose an AF point for you." Select just the center point and turn all the others off. Your technique is one of the most important aspects of photography. Setting up the gear correctly for the conditions is next. Lastly, you absolutely have to have a good post editor.

Take Scotty's advice and use either Tv or Av. I prefer a fixed ISO and for normal daylight, I like ISO 800. Adjust as necessary. Most of the time I fix the tele one stop down from wide open. One other thing that may help is high speed shutter. Even slight changes in birds activity can make a big difference in sharpness. Also, nobody gets 100% keepers. Everybody misses from time to time.

There you have it. Two votes for using Tv or Av with fixed ISO. Two votes for using M with Auto ISO. There are good arguments that can be made for any shooting mode, and how much you allow the camera to set for you.

Which mode is best is mostly personal choice, and the shooting scenario. One thing the suggestions all have in common, though, is that the camera is being allowed to adjust only one leg of the exposure triangle automatically, which are shutter speed, aperture setting, and ISO value.

You have a choice, in this regard. You can let the camera adjust any one, any pair, or all three settings. Letting the camera adjust only one gives you the most control, and frees the shooter from constantly checking and adjusting exposure during a sequence of shots. Your attention can be on the subject, instead of being distracted by operating the camera.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

TTMartin — Sun, 21 May 2017 20:17:54 GMT

@Summerlee340 wrote:
I just tried your suggestion (took photo of a squirrel hanging out on my bench) did 1/1000, Manual, Auto ISO, zoomed to 100 set to 4.5 as you said. The photo at 100 was decent and the one at 400 was much better than I have been shooting. Is it really that simple? I will keep trying this with birds next, except they tend to fly away when they see that humongous lens. Regarding your second paratraph, are you speaking about the little window on the lens that shows the distance in "ft" and "m"?Can you explain a little more as to the focus mode on the lens and why it makes a difference. Also, if you have time for this question - should I set the switch on the lens to "full" or "infinity"?

Yes, it really is as simple as using a fast enough shutter speed. Since there seems to be some question, I use Manual with Auto ISO also.

The focus mode on the lens should be set for 3m-infinity except when focusing on something closer than 3 meters. The lens will focus much faster when set to 3m-infinity than it does when set to full.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

diverhank — Sun, 21 May 2017 22:12:23 GMT

@Summerlee340 wrote:
Great photos,TTM. Thanks for your reply. Right now I am not trying to get action shots of the birds - I am after crispness so I've been taking photos of them when they are stationary (which doesn't last that long!) and then looking at my photos to see how they look. Do you think I should still up my shutter speed even though I am taking them when they're still?

Two things that, to me, are the most important to get sharp photos...

1. The closer you are the better - fill the frame

2. As high a shutter speed as possible (1/2000 or faster if at all possible)

Do these two and you still have problem with sharpness then start thinking there's something wrong with the lens or other equipment.

When I first got my 400mm f/5.6L lens I couldn't get a single sharp pictures for the first 3 days even on a tripod...I was close to returning the lens until I properly learn to use it. Prior to using the 400mm FL, I was using the 70-200mm, sometimes with the 1.4X extender with razor sharp results...400mm is a whole another level, especially on a cropped sensor. I had a cheap $50 tripod...it was no help at all as it was quivering in the wind and under the weight of the lens. You need to invest in a more decent tripod.

For unmoving subjects, minimum shutter speed should be at least 1/1000...and remember the faster the better...In time you can slow down but it will take practice. I can now shoot at 1/320 with decent results but that's after many years of practice using proper breathing techniques.

@Also, I'm willing to bet that for most of your very sharp pictures @ FL250, most are taken at close range. You simply get more details closer in - so get as close as possible.

@Here is what the 100-400mm v II can do. This was taken with a 7D Mark II handheld @ 400mm, 1/400, f/5.6, ISO 500. I adjusted clarity, vibrance and saturation in photoshop but otherwise unsharpened.

Re: Canon 100-400 vii lens - Pictures could be sharper Need help!

Summerlee340 — Mon, 22 May 2017 00:32:04 GMT

Thank you TTMartin. I appreciate it.