topic Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender in EF & RF Lenses

Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

mithun_pal129 — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 13:32:16 GMT

Hi, I have a Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM. Now I want to purchase a 2X L series extender. Can anybody help me by informing that AF can work with EF 70-200mm L F4 USM + 2X extender mounted on 650D camera and how much picture quality I have to compromise for the same.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

RobertTheFat — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 13:58:52 GMT

@mithun_pal129 wrote:
Hi, I have a Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM. Now I want to purchase a 2X L series extender. Can anybody help me by informing that AF can work with EF 70-200mm L F4 USM + 2X extender mounted on 650D camera and how much picture quality I have to compromise for the same.

I may be slightly out of my depth here, but I believe a 2X extender costs you two stops, which brings you to f/8, which is beyond the AF capability of a 650D. I believe f/5.6 (or maybe f/6.3) is the limit.

Bob

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:07:44 GMT

If it works at all it will not work well. Your lens will become a f8.

I only use and recomend Canon extenders and the EF 2X III is $500 bucks.

I don't own one but I do have the EF 1.4X II. (Also $500 but there is a $50 rebate right now.) It would make your situation and lens a f5.6 and that would possibly work.

Most of the time and be pretty good. Especially outdoor shots with good light.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

cale_kat — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 19:04:35 GMT

In the manual it is noted (p.99).

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

mithun_pal129 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 05:16:00 GMT

Thank you all for your valuable comments. I forgot to mention that my intension of extender to make my EF 70-200mm L F4 USM to a telephoto lens for wild life / birds. But now as I am staying in Abu Dhabi, there is not much scope of bird / wild life. Hence I don't want to spend much on super telephoto lens and personally I don't want to go for cheap Sigma lens. So I wanted to make 70-200mm lens + 2x extender as 140-400mm. As I got impression 1.4X extender is pretty good but it will give me upto 280mm. I know it is not very good focal length for bird / wild lift photography. But want to know still is workable or if I use 2x extender to make the lens 400mm the auto focus is required for wild life or manual focus can still work at F8. I don't have much experience in wild life photography that is why I wanted to know the things.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:38:01 GMT

On your camera the 70-200mm f4 acts like a 112-320mm f4. With a 1.4x converter you are looking at 448mm on th elong end and f5.6. 400+mm should be long enough for you to get some bird shots. BTW, use a tripod.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

amfoto1 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:29:16 GMT

@mithun_pal129 wrote:
Thank you all for your valuable comments. I forgot to mention that my intension of extender to make my EF 70-200mm L F4 USM to a telephoto lens for wild life / birds. But now as I am staying in Abu Dhabi, there is not much scope of bird / wild life. Hence I don't want to spend much on super telephoto lens and personally I don't want to go for cheap Sigma lens. So I wanted to make 70-200mm lens + 2x extender as 140-400mm. As I got impression 1.4X extender is pretty good but it will give me upto 280mm. I know it is not very good focal length for bird / wild lift photography. But want to know still is workable or if I use 2x extender to make the lens 400mm the auto focus is required for wild life or manual focus can still work at F8. I don't have much experience in wild life photography that is why I wanted to know the things.

In a nutshell... No.

Putting a 2X teleconverter onto a 70-200/4 makes for an "effective" 140-400/8 lens. Due to the reduction in light reaching the AF sensors, your camera will turn off auto focus. A stronger 2X also will "cost" more loss of image quality due to degradation.

It is possible to tape over some of the electronic contacts on the teleconverter, so that the camera doesn't know it's there and will still try to auto focus. However, auto focus will be much slower and will tend to hunt a lot more.

In some situations you might be able to focus manually. However, effective f8 makes for a pretty dim viewfinder, plus modern auto focus cameras like yours do not have some fo the features to assist manual focus, that vintage cameras designed for manual focusing had in the past. Some people change out to a third party focusing screen to add manual focus assist features (split image finder, micro diaprisms, for example). However this requires some careful work to install the focus screen and the different focus screen can effect the camera's metering accuracy, especially making Spot Metering inaccurate.

Adding a weaker 1.4X teleconverter makes your lens into an effecive 112-280mm f5.6, which will still autofocus and will have considerably less loss of image quality, though not as much "reach". If yours is an IS lens, it might be reasonably handholdable. If it's not an IS lens, you will need to watch your shutter speeds more carefully, probably will want to keep to 1/500 or faster to prevent camera shake blur. Or use a tripod, as ebibgs suggests, or at least a monopod. You also will need to limit your camera's autofocus to the center AF point only, I believe.

@ebiggs1 wrote:

While it is technically correct, citing the "crop camera lens factor" this way may not help very much, might be confusing.

The original poster simply has a 70-200mm lens that they are accustomed to using on a crop sensor camera. Now they would like to double the reach of that lens on their camera. Bringing crop sensor lens factor into the conversation is most useful when the user is going from film/full frame to crop camera or vice versa. To someone who has never used a film camera or hasn't used one in many years and is now completely accustomed to how a lens focal length performs on their crop camera, it is a completly moot point.

But what it comes down to is that while you can add a 2X, it's probably not a good idea for several reasons. Auto focus won't work or, with some tricks, will work only poorly. Manual focus will be difficult. And the image quality might take too big a hit, pairing up a 2X with your lens. .

I have 70-200/4 IS, 70-200/2.8 IS ("Mark I"), 1.4X II and 2X II teleconverters. I also have longer telephoto lenses, so rarely have need to add teleconverter to these zooms. However if needed I would use 1.4X on either of them. But even though AF still works on the 70-200/2.8 + 2X combo, I won't use it due to the amount of image quality loss (the newer 70-200/2.8 IS Mark II and 2X Mark III are said to work better together, than my older versions of each).

I mostly only use the 2X on 300/2.8 and 500/4 prime lenses, where image quality is still good. (Note: yes, on some of my cameras the 2X on 500/4 causes AF to stop working, just as it would on your f4 lens, so I only use the combo in a limited way.)

mithun_pal129... At most I'd suggest you get a 1.4X and use that with your lens. See if the image quality is up to your expectations. Then work to get closer to your subjects. Or get them to come closer to you. Practice stalking techniques and study your subjects' behaviours to discover ways to get closer. Work from a blind and use attractants (food, calls). And start saving up for a longer focal length lens.

The Canon 1.4X II and III teleconverters are excellent. All Canon teleconverters have protruding front elements which limit the lenses they can physically be attached to, but the 70-200s are among those where it's possible. Kenko teleconverters are another that I see recommended quite often. They have two different quality levels: A more expensive "Pro 300" version and a less expensive "MC-4". These currently are offered in "DGX" versions that function very much like Canon teleconverters. Older Kenko "DG" teleconverters did not "report" to the camera, the camera didn't know they were there, so would try to focus. From the reviews and tests I've seen, the current Kenko DGX Pro 300 is quite good across the whole image area. The cheaper MC-4 is actually slightly sharper at the center, but not as sharp in the corners and at the edges of the image. Tamron and Sigma also make teleconverters, but I have little experience or knowledge of current versions of those.

Wildlife/bird photography isn't easy. No matter how long a lens you have, there will be times when the subjects are just out of reach and all you can go is sit back and enjoy the show.

These photos of small subjects were shot with various lenses, but close to or less than the same effective focal length as your 70-200mm + a 1.4X teleconverter would be on your camera...

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:43:27 GMT

“While it is technically correct, citing the "crop camera lens factor" this way may not help very much, might be confusing.

How simply ridiculous your statement is. Never-the-less the multiplication factors involved are germane.

Confusing or not these are the facts. You advocate not explaining what the situation is because you are afraid of confusing the person? What if somebody had treated you that way. I am sure the OP is capable of learning just as we all did. When you hear a discussion of focal lengths, you need a base point for reference. How about the facts? Pretty good place to start.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

mithun_pal129 — Tue, 01 Jul 2014 04:16:37 GMT

Thank you all again for your valuable information. Now with all your information and recommendation I have decided to go for 1.4X Canon L series teleconverter.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

cale_kat — Tue, 01 Jul 2014 04:33:33 GMT

That sounds like a great choice and I hope you will share your first impressions when you get it. Congratulations!

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

gabormatesz — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 06:13:55 GMT

Hi,

I have a Canon EOS 80D + EF70-200 F4L IS USM and want to upgrade with a Canon Extender EF 2x III.

What do you think? This a good and working gear or just buy a Canon Extender EF 1,4x?

Thank you for your answer.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

Waddizzle — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 12:34:17 GMT

@gabormatesz wrote:
Hi,

I have a Canon EOS 80D + EF70-200 F4L IS USM and want to upgrade with a Canon Extender EF 2x III.

What do you think? This a good and working gear or just buy a Canon Extender EF 1,4x?

Thank you for your answer.

Are you aware of the performance trade offs involved with using a teleconverter? If so, then go for it. The Canon extenders with Canon lenses are a much better choice than third party extenders.

Using it will cause the cameras to not to focus quite as quickly, as the camera body will be receiving far less light when you use the EF 2x. You will also experience a reduction int he number of available AF points, a maximum of 27.

I have considered the EF 2x, but settled for the EF 1.4x so that I can use it with more lenses. For the most part, you can only use the EF 2x with lenses with apertures that are f/4, or faster. I use my EF 1.4x with a 100-400mm.

The performance hits that you experience are far less severe with the EF 1.4x compared to the EF 2x.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

gabormatesz — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 12:48:06 GMT

I'm not sure I know these disadvantages. I know that f4 will be f8 with 2x teleconverter. Anything else?

I think the autofocus will not be affected when I use the 2x converter.

Hopefully, the 80D knowledge is enough for this gear upgrade, right?

Thank you!

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

amfoto1 — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:01:11 GMT

In addition to loss of light (two stop with a 2X teleconverter), which effects autofocus, there is also some loss of image quality. The teleconverter effectively magnifies any shortcomings of the lens. A 2X teleconverter will cause more loss of image quality than a weaker 1.4X... but there's some effect from that too.

How much loss of image quality is hard to predict. There are just too many different possible combinations, plus some variation from one copy of any particular lens to the next. Maybe you can find someone with the exact combo you're considering. But even then, what they find acceptable in the way of image quality loss, you may not.

If yours is the non-IS 70-200mm, it will also make it harder to get a steady shot. Without image stabilization, about the minimum shutter speed you'll want to try to hand hold with 200mm + 2X would be 1/640. So you'll need pretty good light conditions to work with the combo.... or higher ISOs. If yours is the IS version of that lens, it will be better... but you'll still need to use faster shutter speed than you did when using the lens without any teleconverter.

Yes, your autofocus willl be effected, even with the 80D. The good news is that the 80D is "f/8 capable". At least some of it's autofocus points will be able to work with an effective f/8 lens/teleconverter combo. I don't know how many other than to say that it won't be the entire 45-point array. I know that up to 27 points can work on that camera when it's used with 100-400mm Mark II and 1.4X III teleconverter combo, specifically... but it's different with other lens/teleconverter combos. Plus with a teleconverter installed, the AF will tend to be slower, hunt and struggle more. How much depends on a lot of things, such as the lighting conditions when you're trying to shoot and subject detail/contrast. f/8 effective aperture delivers 4X less light than f/4, so the AF sensor array will have far less to work with. Your viewfinder also will be dimmed down quite a bit.

What it all comes down to is that basically there's "no free lunch"... There's simply no cheap and easy way to get "more telephoto focal length". There's always going to be some compromise trying to do it with a teleconverter. And without a doubt, a Canon EF 100-400mm Mark II or EF 400mm f/5.6L USM lens without any teleconverter would work better and give better results than a 70-200mm with a 2X teleconverter. Of course, those options are more expensive than just adding a teleconverter to your current lens.

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & ZENFOLIO

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:47:52 GMT

"I have a Canon EOS 80D + EF70-200 F4L IS USM and want to upgrade with a Canon Extender EF 2x III."

Don't do it. It is a bad idea. It is in no way an "upgrade"!

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:49:25 GMT

" EF 400mm f/5.6L USM lens"

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

gabormatesz — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:16:08 GMT

Oh, I understand, so I got a complete view of the advantages and disadvantages of the extender.

Thank you very much! The loss of image quality does not really like. But who would like it, right?!

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

gabormatesz — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:18:11 GMT

I was thinking about this too, the EF400 f/5,6L USM was perfect for me and my wildlife andvertures. 🙂

Thank you for your confirm.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

ebiggs1 — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:19:53 GMT

"I got a complete view of the advantages and disadvantages of the extender."

There is no advantage.

Re: Canon Lens EF 70-200mm L F4 USM+ 2X L series extender

Waddizzle — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:28:35 GMT

The EF 400mm f/5.6L USM lens is a great lens. I use my 100-400 a lot, but I do so handheld most of the time. But, if I were using the 400mm prime I would want to use it on tripod, due to its’ long FL.

Using a super telephoto lens has learning curve. You have to get used to viewing the world through a straw. The longer the straw, the harder it is to get your bearings. This is one advantage of a zoom. You can back to reacquire a subject, and back in again.

I like the advice to pass on an extender. If you plan to use the extended FL most all of the time, then you are better off with a lens with the native FL.