topic Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2 in EF & RF Lenses

problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 22:10:54 GMT

Hi all,

I am new to the forum.

I have run into a strange problem with my 600mm mark 2. My high speed burst using 2 differant Canon 7d mk 2's has dropped in burst rate by about 50%. It is roughly now about 5 frames per second on both cameras where normal rate is 10 fps. I am a wildlife photographer and use high speed burst all the time. The only lens I have that this happens with is the 600. All the other lenses the burst rate is right up to snuff.

I cleaned the contacts, checked all the settings on the lens and the cameras. This did not help. This problem surfaced all of a sudden. Last week everything was fine. All other functions of the lens seem to be fine. I also put my 5d3 on it and the burst mode seems ok.

Thanks in advance everyone,

Colonel4446

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

TCampbell — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:29:47 GMT

Can you give us more info....

Are you using "One Shot" focus mode vs. "AI Servo" mode (or possibly even "AI Focus" mode)?

Are you shooting RAW or JPEG (or both)?

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

kvbarkley — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 02:34:40 GMT

Are you using a better beamer or something with a flash?

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 03:10:53 GMT

Hi guys,

Both 7d mk2's are set up the same. Both cameras have 20-30k photographs through them. One is used primarily with the 600 and the other with a 300 f2.8 2. However both cameras react the same when installed on the 600, slower max burst speed.

I shoot raw, AI servo, spot metering and center point focus. I also use 1.4-3 extenders most of the time on both cameras. However with or without the extenders the max. burst speed is now reduced on the 600.

It does not matter what other lens I put on these cameras including the 300 they both work fine and have maximum burst speed.

The 600 has never been dropped or abused. It gets bumped sometime out in the bush but never has been bumped hard that would have alarmed me.

My guess would be that someting in that lens is causing an electrical resistance and reducing the burst speed. That is only a guess though.

I do have a better beamer but it has not been used in quite awhile. I go to single shot when using the beamer.

Thanks so much for your help with this. I really appreciate it.

Colonel4446

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

RobertTheFat — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 04:07:39 GMT

@Colonel4446 wrote:
Hi guys,
Both 7d mk2's are set up the same. Both cameras have 20-30k photographs through them. One is used primarily with the 600 and the other with a 300 f2.8 2. However both cameras react the same when installed on the 600, slower max burst speed.
I shoot raw, AI servo, spot metering and center point focus. I also use 1.4-3 extenders most of the time on both cameras. However with or without the extenders the max. burst speed is now reduced on the 600.
It does not matter what other lens I put on these cameras including the 300 they both work fine and have maximum burst speed.
The 600 has never been dropped or abused. It gets bumped sometime out in the bush but never has been bumped hard that would have alarmed me.
My guess would be that someting in that lens is causing an electrical resistance and reducing the burst speed. That is only a guess though.
I do have a better beamer but it has not been used in quite awhile. I go to single shot when using the beamer.
Thanks so much for your help with this. I really appreciate it.
Colonel4446

Autofocusing a big lens could conceivably put a big enough load on the camera's electrical system to affect the burst rate. Have you tried adding a battery grip?

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

diverhank — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:44:07 GMT

The only thing I can think of is that distortion correction (and others) are turned on for this lens on your two 7D Mark II. This may slow the burst rate significantly. It's an easy check anyhow. Other than that, I have no clue...haven't heard of this problem before.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

jrhoffman75 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:50:07 GMT

Give Canon a call at 1-800-OK-CANON.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

TCampbell — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:24:21 GMT

Just as a test... have you tried switching to manual focus to see if that impacts the burst speed? I'm just wondering if the delay has to do with any attempts to update the focus between frames -- which can be more difficult with a long lens.

Also, please check the settings for your AI Servo 1st vs. 2nd image priority on the camera. (I think the 7D II has this setting). In one mode the camera will put most prioirty on focus for the 1st frame of the burst sequence but wont be as fussy about focus for each success frame in the burst series. If in the other mode, the camera will be fussier about re-aquiring focus between each frame and this will slow your burst speed (Canon documents this in their AF guide).

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

ebiggs1 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:45:17 GMT

Colonel,

I am probably the only one here to use the 600mil. I must say I have never seen this with mine. So, I really don't have the answer. You say if you use the lens on the 5D Mk III it is OK? Just on either or both of the 7D Mk II's?

I think I would reset the 7D Mk II's back to factory and try it.

I would have said it was something to do with AF but you are using AI-Servo so AF should not matter. I believe a call to Canon is in order. But you really need to talk with a rep that has actually used the big 600mil. Not just one that read the book on it.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:13:41 GMT

Hi again,

Thanks again for comments.

Yes I have a battery grip on the camera that resides with the 600. If you install the other camera without the grip the problem is still the same.

Early last week at a shoot everything was OK. At the end of the week I did another shoot and the first time I used high speed burst it had changed. No camera settings or lens settings were changed from the early shoot to the one later in the week. Lighting conditions were very similar. Keep in mind I can put any other lens I have on these cameras and they work fine. Only the 600 is the problem with or without teleconverters.

After thinking about it more this morning I believe it could be a physical problem with the lens itself. When I go out in the bush of South Carolina I have the 600, camera with grip, and teleconverter on a RRS tripod with gimbal mount. I sling the rig over my shoulder and with my 300 setup on a black rapid strap head out. There is a lot of walking sometimes. Although I have never even bumped it hard there is some stress on the mounts. Possible deflection over time may be the culprit. Contact problem, broken wire, etc. I am totally guessing here but now it seems like the best scenario. The other equipment is working fine.

Since the other lens features on the 600 seem to work I will primarily use it temporarily anyway in single shot mode. I pretty much have been doing that anyway for static bird photos and my 300 I use for birds in flight. I will test the 600 this week in the other modes to make sure that it works well.

I will call Canon this week. Colonel4446

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

ebiggs1 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:15:31 GMT

"... you install the other camera..."

Agree, it has to be something goin gon with the lens. Call Canon and ask for a tech that has actually used the 600mil.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

TCampbell — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:55:14 GMT

Colonel, did you check the "AI Servo 1st" and "AI Servo 2nd" settings on your camera? I mentioned that a few replies back.

It's on the 2nd AF tab in your camera's menu (see page 117 of your manual -- the full manual, not the abbreviated manual).

The setting controls how the camera prioritizes focus vs. burst speed when doing burst shooting.

AI Servo 1st can be set to priority either acquiring a better focus OR being more responsive to shoot when you press the shutter -- but only for the first frame of the series.

AI Servo 2nd controls whether the camera should rapid-burst as fast as it can -OR- if should try to take time to refine focus better between the frames for all successive frames after the first frame in a burst series.

If set to put more emphasis on the focus, it WILL reduce the burst speed and how much of a speed reduction almost certainly depends on the lens and how fast it can reacquire focus. A hand-held 600mm lens is harder to focus because even a tiny movement/vibration on your part will shake the image more than it would for a shorter focal length lens and this makes it harder for the camera to auto-focus (which is why I keep telling action photographers to leave that image stabilization switch turned on ... regardless of how fast the shutter speed is. It's not about the shake when the shutter is open... it's about the shake that's happening when the camera is trying to acquire focus before the shot is taken.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

ebiggs1 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:05:14 GMT

Whenever you have a problem crop up like this it is imperative to set the gear back to default settings. This also applies to the lens. Set and forget will always bite you in the --- !

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:15:58 GMT

Hi,

First, I try to respond to your informational requests as fast as I can. I am a busy person.

The cameras have been set up since the beginning, AI servo, 1st image priority right in the middle, equal priority. There has been 20-30k photos shot through these cameras with no problems with burst speed until now. Remember this has happened with 2 identically set up 7d MK 2's. It only occurs with the 600 and happened suddenly last week.

Canon tech. does not have a clue and said to send them, 600 plus one of the cameras, into service. What I expected.

I have not defaulted the cameras back to factory settings. I have tried burst settings on all different lens settings with the 600 lens itself. No help. I can understand going back to default settings if I only had one camera but this happened with 2 cameras at the same time.

My question, based on the above, do you think I should default both cameras back to factory settings anyway? Why would 2 identically set up cameras have a problem the same day, with only one type of lens?

I really appreciate the feedback and you all takeing the time to help me. I was hoping to find someone out there in cyberland that has had the same problem.

Thanks much again and I will be glad to supply any information that you need.

Colonel4446

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Waddizzle — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:20:26 GMT

Do not reset the camera if you intend to send it back to Canon. Wait on resetting, until Canon looks at the combo.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

ebiggs1 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:56:38 GMT

Colonel,

"... do you think I should default both cameras back to factory settings anyway?"

Yes and set the lens to its basic default setting, too. You have no base line until you do this. I had my doubts whether Canon could help. That is why I wanted you to be sure you got a tech that actually used the 600mil. You are in limited company with people that own or use that lens. It is an unbelievable lens, isn't it?

I agree it sounds like it must be the lens but this will tell.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

diverhank — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:00:47 GMT

@Colonel4446 wrote:

I have not defaulted the cameras back to factory settings. I have tried burst settings on all different lens settings with the 600 lens itself. No help. I can understand going back to default settings if I only had one camera but this happened with 2 cameras at the same time.
My question, based on the above, do you think I should default both cameras back to factory settings anyway? Why would 2 identically set up cameras have a problem the same day, with only one type of lens?
I really appreciate the feedback and you all takeing the time to help me. I was hoping to find someone out there in cyberland that has had the same problem.
Thanks much again and I will be glad to supply any information that you need.
Colonel4446

Out of curiosity, did you read my post? If yes, did you try what I stated? the distortion filter is lens specific. When you run into problems, the first thing you need to do is to eliminate all the possibilities, one by one until you've exhausted everything. I have trouble understanding your reluctance to try just because you're so sure you didn't accidentally set something to both of your cameras...I've done this with all 3 cameras on mine before without knowing before...Assumption is the worst enemy imho. A friend of mine at work was so sure his gun was unloaded that after a shooting session in the desert, put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger to scare his girl friend - with tragic and deadly result.

In your case you are so sure it's the lens problem that you will take the trouble and expense sending it in. What will you do when Canon send your lens back stating nothing is wrong with it? That would be my prediction. I'm convinced it's some settings you've got in your cameras that is causing the slow down. Well I'm convinced until you've exhausted all possibilities that it's not your cameras' settings.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:41:46 GMT

I have tried to answer all questions. I missed answering yours. I did check distortion correction and both cameras are disabled.

And since you think you know, the last thing I want to do is send this lens via, ups, fed ex, postal to Virginia. That is the reason I joined this forum and another to see if anyone could help me before that last resort.

Canon did not have any answers for me and told me to send it to them for service. I told them that I was going to use the lens with single shot or silent mode burst which still works fine for a time before considering sending to them. My reasoning here is that I may discover through experimentation and time, using the 600, more issues or the main problem may be discovered.

One of the questions Canon asked was have I got any error messages. No, until today. I got a communication error between the camera and the lens.

The very first thing I did when I discovered this problem three days ago was clean the contacts on the lens and cameras with alcohol and a clean rag. Canon recommends a clean rag only. I did that today with no luck. The contacts under high magnification look ok, There is line wear from the contacts in the cameras which does not look bad at all but may be the problem.

Question. I read somewhere that some folks have ordered a new lens mount and installed it themselves. As you probably know it looks like it is attached by small screws and does not look like a big job. Have any of you all done this?

At least now I know what is causing this.

Thanks again for your help,

Colonel4446

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

ebiggs1 — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 15:00:14 GMT

"Canon recommends a clean rag only. I did that today with no luck."

This almost never to never works. It may help a person that very rarely removes his lens.

Diverhank and I are correct. You need to go back to basics. Literally we are only talking pushing some buttons. Make everything the way it was when you bought it. Omit nothing.

Re: problem with 600mm f4 IS 2

Colonel4446 — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 15:37:44 GMT

Everything you have suggested has been tried. That includes clearing the cameras back to factory settings. Last evening I started getting an error code, "Err 01 Communication between the camera and lens is faulty. Clean the lens contacts." I appreciate the help fellas. What do you think?

Colonel4446