topic Re: Portrait lens help? in EF & RF Lenses

Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:35:32 GMT

I'm looking for a portrait lens (I know there is no "specific" lens that is for portraits only but just one that will be good). I am looking to do all types of portrait work (head, full body, etc)

I currently have a Canon 70D & Canon 50mm 1.8

I was really interested in the Canon 135 f/2 but I'm afraid it'll be too long on my cropped body, any opinions? I also like the 85mm 1.2 or the 70-200mm 2.8 but I just don't know! I'm trying to spend under $1000 on a used lens. ANy sugestions or advice would be much appreciated! 🙂

Attached are some photos I've done with my nifty-fifty:

Re: Portrait lens help?

diverhank — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:31:12 GMT

Very nice portraits you were able to get with the 50/1.8. They are a bit soft for my liking but it's a matter of preference.

My favorite portrait lens is the 85mm and it's not too bad for a cropped body. For full body shots you will have to stand a bit farther back - generally not a problem outdoors.

There are quite a few choices for the 85mm. Within Canon, you have the 85mm f/1.8 which costs about $350 then you have the 85mm f/1.2L II that costs quite a bit more ($1900). Sigma has the 85mm f/1.4 and recently the 85mm f/1.4 ART. Tamron also has a 85mm f/1.8...none of them can match the price for the Canon 85mm f/1.8.

I own the Canon 85mm f/1.8 and the Canon 85mm f/1.2L II and I have to look really hard to tell the difference between the two...not sure if I'd easily pass a blind test, to tell the truth. They are both very sharp with incredible bokeh. So I'd recommend getting a 85mm f/1.8 to start with then upgrade later if you feel the need (like I did - just so I know I got the best). The only thing about the 85mm f/1.8 is there is quite a bit of chromatic aberration (purple fringing) if you shoot against the sun. Most of it can be rid of in post processing. In return the Canon 85mm f/1.8 focuses faster than its bigger brother.

85mm 1.8 vs 1.2

The 70-200 is very good for portrait too but in many cases, cannot match the bokeh of the 85mm (below f/2.8)

Re: Portrait lens help?

RobertTheFat — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:37:09 GMT

@sarahr_7 wrote:
I'm looking for a portrait lens (I know there is no "specific" lens that is for portraits only but just one that will be good). I am looking to do all types of portrait work (head, full body, etc)

I currently have a Canon 70D & Canon 50mm 1.8

I was really interested in the Canon 135 f/2 but I'm afraid it'll be too long on my cropped body, any opinions? I also like the 85mm 1.2 or the 70-200mm 2.8 but I just don't know! I'm trying to spend under $1000 on a used lens. ANy sugestions or advice would be much appreciated! 🙂

Attached are some photos I've done with my nifty-fifty:

The only thing in those pictures that could possibly be helped by a new lens is the garish bokeh in the second one. The rest of the problems are correctable failures of technique.

The first one needs the contrast turned up. If that doesn't do the job, it may be slightly overexposed. See if turning the brightness down a little helps. (That may not be necessary, since any WB correction will cost you light.)

The second one, except for the intrusive background, isn't bad. The face is a little dark, so it might help to turn the brightness up a little, Fill flash would cure it easily, but you'd probably have to have the subject lose the glasses.

The third one is compositionally static, with a badly blown background and a white balance problem. It may be salvagable if you turn the contrast up and get rid of the orange cast. But I suspect there's a sharpness issue too, and that's not easily corrected. I'd probably call that one a do-over.

You're shooting in RAW and editing with a decent photo editor, right? If not, change your ways. You'll be limited until you do.

Re: Portrait lens help?

ScottyP — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 22:47:13 GMT

I like the backlit look, but it really benefits a lot from some fill light, either flash or just a collapsible reflector. Trying to artificially boost exposure in post blows out the background, and even using a local adjustment to brighten only the subject creates noise and lessens detail on the lightened area. And brightening it can look weird in some images, even if you are pretty good at it.

I agree the 85 f/1.8 is a good way to go for a somewhat specialist lens and on a budget.

If you can stretch it, the 70-200 f/2.8 IS MK2 really does a great job with portraits, and so many other uses. You'd never be sorry.

Re: Portrait lens help?

Waddizzle — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 23:24:55 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@sarahr_7 wrote:

The only thing in those pictures that could possibly be helped by a new lens is the garish bokeh in the second one. The rest of the problems are correctable failures of technique.

The first one needs the contrast turned up. If that doesn't do the job, it may be slightly overexposed. See if turning the brightness down a little helps. (That may not be necessary, since any WB correction will cost you light.)

The second one, except for the intrusive background, isn't bad. The face is a little dark, so it might help to turn the brightness up a little, Fill flash would cure it easily, but you'd probably have to have the subject lose the glasses.

The third one is compositionally static, with a badly blown background and a white balance problem. It may be salvagable if you turn the contrast up and get rid of the orange cast. But I suspect there's a sharpness issue too, and that's not easily corrected. I'd probably call that one a do-over.

You're shooting in RAW and editing with a decent photo editor, right? If not, change your ways. You'll be limited until you do.

All of the exposure issues can be easily corrected in Lightroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3AMavaU5uU&list=PLmXfFxjdp3CFWa1egQmUNo10XtJdNHoa2&index=12

"Try it. You'll like it."

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 00:44:56 GMT

Okay, thank you so much for the advice!! I will defintely be using it!

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 00:46:13 GMT

Okay thank you! And yes, I think I will get a reflector soon and see how that changes my pictures.

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 00:50:19 GMT

I agree! My pictures have been pretty soft with this lens and I'm not sure if it's just the way I shoot or if it's the lens. Thank you so much for the advice on the 85mm! I think I might get the 1.8 and see how that goes, like you said. Thanks!!

Re: Portrait lens help?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 01:01:23 GMT

I bet you were not expecting to get the critics choice? To answer your question the 70-200 is the way to go. Both the 85 and certainly the 135 are too long.
The 70-200 is all I use for portraits anymore. Curious, the 50 is a good focal length on cropper. So why change? Your shots are very good as is. Especially the first one. The over exposure is in currently. My niece uses it a lot and she is very successful.
Go get a 70-200mm you will love it.

Re: Portrait lens help?

diverhank — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 01:20:20 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:

Go get a 70-200mm you will love it.

I think the 70-200 should be standard equipment for everything but she did say under $1000 used...not sure you can get it for this price, at least not version II...

Re: Portrait lens help?

TTMartin — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 01:35:12 GMT

@diverhank wrote:
I think the 70-200 should be standard equipment for everything but she did say under $1000 used...not sure you can get it for this price, at least not version II...

Canon has the EF 70-200 f/2.8L non-IS refubished for sale. For some reason my post with links to the shop.usa.canon.com was deleted. Is it now against the rules to link to Canon?

Re: Portrait lens help?

TTMartin — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 01:38:37 GMT

For under $1000 you could get both the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM and the EF 100mm f/2 USM.

Yes, I think 135mm is too long for a crop camera, especially since you seem to lean towards full body photos.

The other alternative would be the EF 70-200 f/2.8L non-IS, which us just over your budget new.

Sigma and Tamron both have nice 70-200 f/2.8 lenses, both with and without IS.

If you buy used stick with a reputable company that takes returns.

EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM Refurbished $1,079.20

EF 100mm f/2 USM Refurbished $399.99

EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Refurbished $299.99

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 02:38:19 GMT

I would love to get a 70-200 but even used copies are so expensive! I could probably get a 70-200 f/4 but I'm not sure that would have the same effect as the crowned 2.8 version, i'm just not sure.

Re: Portrait lens help?

Jason — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 02:54:10 GMT

Hi TTMartin,

We just wanted to jump in to confirm we have not removed any of your posts from this thread. Linking to products on the Canon Direct Store is fine!

Thank you for your participation!

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 03:09:12 GMT

Okay, thank you! I didn't even think about the 100mm f/2, I will look into that one now too. I would love to get the 70-200 f/2.8 w/o IS but the non IS scares me a little, do you think I could get by without it?

Re: Portrait lens help?

diverhank — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 03:16:05 GMT

@sarahr_7 wrote:
I would love to get a 70-200 but even used copies are so expensive! I could probably get a 70-200 f/4 but I'm not sure that would have the same effect as the crowned 2.8 version, i'm just not sure.

I have a f4 version that I use for travel. It's just as sharp but at f4 only get half the light as at f2.8. The bokeh at f4 is not as good as at f2.8.The down side of the f2.8 is big size and weight.

I suggest that you continue to use the 50 and work on technique a bit more. The nifty fifty is capable of sharper image than what you are showing - I also have one. When you shoot at f1.8, try to move the focus point to the eye after the picture is composed, not focus first then recompose. The slight shift in distance will blur your image since depth of field is shallow. The 70d has touch screen which can simplify the task.

Re: Portrait lens help?

sarahr_7 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 03:34:13 GMT

Yes I have seen other photos taken with the same lens that are so sharp and I have been trying to figure out why! I will for sure give that a try as I always focus on the eye and then recompose the way I want it. But how do I move the focus point back to the eye after I've alreadly composed the shot? I have been struggling with photos that just aren't as sharp as I want them to be so I really want to try to change the way I shoot and see if I can get sharper images! Thank you!!

Re: Portrait lens help?

diverhank — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 03:53:52 GMT

@sarahr_7 wrote:
Yes I have seen other photos taken with the same lens that are so sharp and I have been trying to figure out why! I will for sure give that a try as I always focus on the eye and then recompose the way I want it. But how do I move the focus point back to the eye after I've alreadly composed the shot? I have been struggling with photos that just aren't as sharp as I want them to be so I really want to try to change the way I shoot and see if I can get sharper images! Thank you!!

If your subject is willing...here is one technique that will nail focus...I don't have the 70D so I can only speak in general terms

1. Turn on live view

2. You will see a focus box in the middle. Compose your image then move the box to the desired point of focus (e.g. the eye). With touch screen I think you can just drag the box or touch where you want the box to be. I have to use the joystick on my cameras, Then you can focus.

3. You can press the magnify button (mag. glass symbol) once for 5x zoom twice for 10X. At this point I move the focus ring on the lens to nail focus then take the picture. This might not work for you unless you disable the shutter button for focus. I use the back focus button for focus and the shutter for taking the picture. I think you can program your camera so you can take the picture by touching the screen. This will work.

You will be amazed how badly misfocus the autofocus can be at 10x zoom...normally it's no factor but not when you are at f/1.8 or worse f/1.2....very tough focus...

Re: Portrait lens help?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 14:25:02 GMT

All the tips and suggestions from diverhank are on the money.

A used 70-200mm f2.8 in anybodies version, Canon, Tamron or Sigma is a better choice for you than any of the primes suggested. The era of the prime has come and gone. They have been largely relegated to the special purpose category lately.

It would be nice to be able to have all the basic focal lengths in a nice sharp prime but who has that kind of money? And who wants to carry four, five or more lenses with them? And change them, often? With the 70-200mil you get them all. The nice thing is the IQ is nearly the same, better than some primes for that matter.

It is 'almost' always best to focus on the eye and get it into sharp focus. But it is not a hard line fact. If you get all your shots to look the same, they will. Boring! This is from a guy that has spent a career in photography for hire.

Now the ball is in your court.

Re: Portrait lens help?

TTMartin — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 12:18:57 GMT

@sarahr_7 wrote:
Okay, thank you! I didn't even think about the 100mm f/2, I will look into that one now too. I would love to get the 70-200 f/2.8 w/o IS but the non IS scares me a little, do you think I could get by without it?

Yes, I think you could get by without it.

First all of the Prime lenses you are looking at are non-IS.

Also for portraits you have some ISO latitude. You're not restricted to really low ISO's, because a little noise reduction doesn't really hurt portraits. Nobody wants to see the pores on their nose in a picture. So you can use a little higher shutter speed and compensate by increasing your ISO. There was even a time that soft focus portraits were such a fad in the film days that people would put Vaseline on their filters to soften the photo, and Canon even made a 'soft focus' portrait lens. EF135mm f/2.8 Soft Focus (with Softfocus mechanism)

Primes are a specialty lens, but, a portrait lens is a specialty lens.

If I'm specifically shooting portraits the 85mm f/1.8 is my lens of choice.

That said, most of my portrait like shots are with a long zoom.

As far as your current photos, my suggestion is move closer for tighter framing. Moving closer will give you a shallower depth of field, and tighter framing will eliminate background distractions.