topic Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing in EF & RF Lenses

EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

crockny — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 13:27:01 GMT

I love this lens but having a problem with flying hawks. I got more sharp images with my old 400 5.6 with no IS. Generally I keep it in the 3rd position. I'm wondering if I should turn it off when my shutter speed is high. ..

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

ebiggs1 — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 15:46:53 GMT

" I'm wondering if I should turn it off when my shutter speed is high."

I do. You should not be below 1/800 and 1/1000 is probably even a better low limit.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

diverhank — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:02:25 GMT

@crockny wrote:
I love this lens but having a problem with flying hawks. I got more sharp images with my old 400 5.6 with no IS. Generally I keep it in the 3rd position. I'm wondering if I should turn it off when my shutter speed is high. ..

For this lens, I usually leave IS on because it doesn't seem to hurt but you really don't need it. Mode 2 is still better than 3 for laterally moving birds.

For Tamron and Sigma 150-600 (which I also own) leaving it on will actually hurt your moving shots. BTW, what is high shutter speed for you?

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

crockny — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:32:24 GMT

I was thinking anything over 1000. I should also have mentioned that I'm using a 5d mark iii rather than a 7d, if that matters.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

diverhank — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:39:52 GMT

@crockny wrote:
I was thinking anything over 1000. I should also have mentioned that I'm using a 5d mark iii rather than a 7d, if that matters.

Over 1000 you shouldn't need IS at all. The 5D3 being full frame is more forgiving than a 7D being a cropped by a factor of 1.6 when it comes to shutter speed versus camera shake.

For a fast flying hawk, I'd use a bit higher shutter speed though...like 1/2000...especially if you were me - I'd get over-excited seeing a hawk and I would shake even more.

Anecdotal Story: Once I used to shoot terns snatching fish and there was one photographer who was always there every time I was. At the time we were both using identical equipment - 7D2 & 400 f/5.6L but his pictures were consistently sharper (and better too) than mine. No doubt he was a better photographer but what was consistent in what he did that I didn't was that all of his fantastic shots were made at 1/4000 while mine were at 1/2000. Later I did some experiment and confirmed that the faster your shutter speeds, the sharper your images are going to be...even beyond 2000 range. Problem is, of course, one never has enough light shooting birds in flight.

Conclusion for me is we do shake at high shutter speeds. So IS theoretically can still help...however, IS can be easily fooled when there is deliberate motion (such as panning). It's a bitter pill either way - turning IS on or off.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

ebiggs1 — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 20:01:57 GMT

"I was thinking anything over 1000."

Good, I would not use IS but I doubt it will hurt either. It is hard to shake faster than 1/1000 but you can! IS is not an on and off switch per say. It is more like a dimmer switch. Its ability is best at faster shutter speeds where it is needed less. As SS decrease so does IS ability. Until it finally doesn't help at all. However, certain people can hold at slower SS better than others thus making IS preform better.

"I should also have mentioned that I'm using a 5d mark iii rather than a 7d, if that matters."

This doesn't matter at all. Except you need to add the crop factor. If you consider 1/1000 to be the low limit on your 5 series than the 7D's low limit should be 1/1600. Otherwise same, same. Make sense?

Just go out and practice, you'll get it.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

Waddizzle — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 00:05:21 GMT

@crockny wrote:
I love this lens but having a problem with flying hawks. I got more sharp images with my old 400 5.6 with no IS. Generally I keep it in the 3rd position. I'm wondering if I should turn it off when my shutter speed is high. ..

You want to use a FAST shutter speed for birds in flight, 1/1600 or faster. Do not be afraid of ISO 1600 to 3200.

I would ask what focus mode are you using? What AF points are you using? How is your Image Priority set, Focus or Shutter Priority?

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

Waddizzle — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 00:07:08 GMT

As for the lens switches, I would use Mode 2 for horizontal panning, or leave it off. Check your focus range switch, too.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

TCampbell — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 01:56:10 GMT

@crockny wrote:
I love this lens but having a problem with flying hawks. I got more sharp images with my old 400 5.6 with no IS. Generally I keep it in the 3rd position. I'm wondering if I should turn it off when my shutter speed is high. ..

For image stabilization...

Mode 1 = normal mode... it stabilizes against both vertical and horizontal motion ... both while focusing and when shooting.

Mode 2 = panning mode... it stabilizes against vertical motion ... but it does NOT stabilize against horizontal motion.

Mode 3 = same as mode 1 *except* it only stabilizes when you TAKE the shot and does not stabilize when focusing.

Consider that birds in flight means the camera is moving (gyro stabilizers will detect the motion). The camera is going to try to fight the movement and that means it’s a problems when the shutter opens (unless you have a very fast shutter speed).

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 12:56:23 GMT

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2014/20140225_winston_IS_blog.shtml

"Another forgotten I.S. advantage

Image Stabilization isn’t just a benefit at slow shutter speeds when hand-holding, however. It can actually make your AI Servo AF better — even at the fastest shutter speeds.

I’ll switch gears and look back at another shot taken with an EF Extender, in this case, using the superb EF 200mm f/2.0L IS lens and an EF 1.4x III Extender at a hockey game. Effectively, this hand-held combination is a 280mm f/2.8 lens, shot wide-open in available light. In action situations, Image Stabilization provides a much more stable view in the finder, even when rapidly moving the camera to follow an erratically moving subject. But beyond that — and many sports photographers don’t think of this — if I.S. is active, the autofocus sensor gets the same stable, clear view of the subject that you would through the viewfinder. Whether working hand-held, as I was in this shot, or from a monopod, the AF system gets a better look at the subject and has an advantage in reading detail and reacting instantly to it during a high-speed, continuous shooting sequence. The benefit? Even greater likelihood of consistently sharp frames, throughout a sequence."

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

diverhank — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:45:18 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2014/20140225_winston_IS_blog.shtml

"Another forgotten I.S. advantage
Image Stabilization isn’t just a benefit at slow shutter speeds when hand-holding, however. It can actually make your AI Servo AF better — even at the fastest shutter speeds.
I’ll switch gears and look back at another shot taken with an EF Extender, in this case, using the superb EF 200mm f/2.0L IS lens and an EF 1.4x III Extender at a hockey game. Effectively, this hand-held combination is a 280mm f/2.8 lens, shot wide-open in available light. In action situations, Image Stabilization provides a much more stable view in the finder, even when rapidly moving the camera to follow an erratically moving subject. But beyond that — and many sports photographers don’t think of this — if I.S. is active, the autofocus sensor gets the same stable, clear view of the subject that you would through the viewfinder. Whether working hand-held, as I was in this shot, or from a monopod, the AF system gets a better look at the subject and has an advantage in reading detail and reacting instantly to it during a high-speed, continuous shooting sequence. The benefit? Even greater likelihood of consistently sharp frames, throughout a sequence."

Great point you have made. But in our action case, I think you're assuming that the AF system gets a better look at the subject. I'd say not when it gets confused. We are saying that when you're panning ̣(meaning deliberate movement), in mode 1 and 3, the IS is trying to cancel that panning movement to deleterious effect. Even in mode 2...who can pan perfectly laterally anyways. Canon does a great job compared to Tamron and Sigma but when you pan after a bird, you're better off without IS. Tamron says it in bold print to turn IS off when you do this. On the Tamron 150-600mm, Tamron came out with a firmware to automatically turn off IS when it detects panning. I suspect Canon also does this without telling us.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

Waddizzle — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 14:29:41 GMT

@diverhank wrote:
@jrhoffman75
Great point you have made. But in our action case, I think you're assuming that the AF system gets a better look at the subject. I'd say not when it gets confused. We are saying that when you're panning ̣(meaning deliberate movement), in mode 1 and 3, the IS is trying to cancel that panning movement to deleterious effect. Even in mode 2...who can pan perfectly laterally anyways.

Confused as in lost focus on the subject?

That effect you refer to is what I refer to as AF and IS, the AF in the camera and the IS in the lens, getting into a tug-of-war.

Re: 100-400 mark II image stabilizing

SEichorn — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 09:04:13 GMT

I have been using mode 1 But this last experience with a redtail was disappointing. I admit 15 degrees probably did contribute to added shake. High ISO, more noise, DOF, shutter speed, my oh my! LOL This whole discussion has got me thinking. I am 78 years young and I've noticed that I shake more on the vertical side than anything. Tomorrow, I am going to try mode 2, them 3. To be honest, I've should have done this many years ago.

Re: EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 15:00:03 GMT

"I have been using mode 1 ..." and you are responding to a 7 year old thread so I doubt anybody cares any longer.

Re: EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

normadel — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 21:07:32 GMT

The OP's original premise that IS is CAUSING blurriness of flying birds is lacking. IS does NOT do anything to prevent motion-of-the-subject blur. Using appropriate shutter speeds does. And IS can only do so much to reduce/prevent camera-motion blur.

Re: EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 24 Feb 2025 20:25:59 GMT

Great point

Re: EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

SEichorn — Tue, 25 Feb 2025 00:03:41 GMT

Ha Ha, I didn't realize the thread was so old. BUT, still some folks might, like me, care. I have two 5D MKIV's and a 7DMKll and too many lens than I probably should have. The 'pro' part of me is drag racing photography, but wildlife is the most challenging.

Re: EF 100-400 II Image stabilization causing blurry pics of flying hawks?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:24:44 GMT

OK, yes, fair point, you are correct sir but I doubt most folks have the "searchability" tenacity you have.