topic Re: Another 150-600mm Thread in EF & RF Lenses

Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 00:47:13 GMT

Greetings Gents,

While I was recently considering picking up a 100mm 2.8L for Macro (shooting bugs), I decided that I'd much rather take some wildlife photography given the the time of year. Started researching and after 12 videos and a bunch of reading, I'm still on the fence as to which lens to buy. Have "peep-ed" too, but I know this isn't always absolute.

Considering the 150-600's Sigma C, S and Tamron G2.

The Sigma C is a $teal at 4.3lbs, 95mm, 4.1 x 10.2, Min focus 110.2 in
The Sigma S is a beast at 6.3lbs, 105mm, 4.8 x 11.4, Min focus 102.4 in
The Tamron G2 at 4.4lbs, 95mm, 4.27 x 10.4, Min focus 7.22 in

Then comes maximum reproduction ratios:
1:5
1:5
1:3.9

Not a macro lens and there's nothing wrong with 1:5, but the Tamron is closest to 1:1

Price
$989
$1799
$1399

Price is low on my list of consideration (at the moment) If the "S" is the bomb, I'd get it. It's weight is a bit discouraging though.

Sigma Contemporary Pro's:
-Attractive price, weight, length. Seems to be a lot of happy owners out there
-I own a Sigma Dock

-Previous positive experience with contemporary and art series lenses

Sigma Sport (Not sure if this is pro or con)
-Seems like you will need to tripod for this 100% of the time (con?)
-105mm beast. Longest, widest, heaviest lens
-May not be relaistic thinking I'd use handheld, but I saw plenty of vidoes where people were doing it and they got some nice shots
-Weather sealed

Tamron (pros)
-Cool zoom lock feature one-click focus ring
-Weather sealed

Tamron (Cons):
-I already have a Sigma USB Dock. Kills me that I'll have to buy a Tap-In for one lens.
-Reversed Zoom ring, I know I can get used to it, but **bleep**

My least favorite at the moment is the Sport model. Primarily because of weight. But my 24-70 is about 4.5lbs and feels like a feather to me. I would want to use the lens handheld sometimes and don't see myself shooting with a 6.3lbs lens free hand for extended periods. I do have steady hands however.

Was considering renting 1 or 2 of them as well. I've never owned a Tamron lens. Only Canon and Sigma.

If you own a Sigma C or S, I'd appreciate hearing about your experience. Love it , hate it and why.

Bob, Hank, Wadizzle, Scott, TCampbell???

Ernie, I know you have the Tamron. Wanted to get your take as well.

I know I could have posted on DPReview.. but I haven't spent as much time there as I have here. And honestly, I value the feedback I'd receive here more.

Thanks Men!

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

Waddizzle — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 01:01:26 GMT

Wow, the Sigma C was selling for 20% less than that all last week.

I think the Sigma C is the slowest to focus of that trio, which is not as big of knock as it might sound. Depending upon what you are shooting, the Sigma C can perform nearly as well as my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM with the EF 1.4x III.

I do not have first hand experience with the Sigma S, nor the Tamron G2, but the Canon 100-400mm II is a fantastic lens. It has super fast focusing. I have a keeper rate that is over 80% with it, and that bad 20% is almost always my fault. It is not as large as the 150-600s, and can fit in many bags still attached to the camera body, which is not the case the 150-600s.

Yes, the Canon 100-400mm has significant sticker shock, but I guarantee you that you will rarely have a bad shot with it that is the fault of the lens. It has actually made me a better photographer. Images are always very sharp.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

Waddizzle — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 01:07:23 GMT

The Sigma C has a zoom lock, too. It has a separate switch, which takes a little more time to release than the locking ring on the Tamron G2. Which is better is a matter of preference. Personally, I would call it draw, because users get acclimated to using one system or the other.

What photo processing software are you using? If you are using Canon DPP, then you will not get the most out of a third party lens, which is the mean reason why I recommend people stick with Canon lenses. I bought Lightroom just so that I could process RAW files shot with third party lenses.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

Durf — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 02:05:27 GMT

I've had the Sigma C for about 2 years now and have had quite a lot of fun with it. I've used it mostly on my 80D and its rather sharp throughout the focal range and auto focus is pretty accurate most of the time....I've had it hunt on me a few times but I was using one shot single focus point in low light when it did. Most of the time it just locks right on and you can shoot and shoot and shoot, especially in good light.

It is a big lens and for that reason I don't lug it around all the time and use it as much as I would like too.

What's truely amazing with it is the stabalizer. I think I've only had it on a tripod once or twice as it's amazingly easy to shoot free handed with a great keeper rate once you get used to it. I've got many really sharp images with it shooting free handed at 600mm even when the lighting wasn't idea and using slower shutter speeds. It's quite a chunck of lens, well built, great optics, and well worth the bucks in my opinion. (You just missed the sale though)

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 03:27:55 GMT

@Waddizzlewrote:
Wow, the Sigma C was selling for 20% less than that all last week.

I think the Sigma C is the slowest to focus of that trio, which is not as big of knock as it might sound. Depending upon what you are shooting, the Sigma C can perform nearly as well as my EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM with the EF 1.4x III.

I do not have first hand experience with the Sigma S, nor the Tamron G2, but the Canon 100-400mm II is a fantastic lens. It has super fast focusing. I have a keeper rate that is over 80% with it, and that bad 20% is almost always my fault. It is not as large as the 150-600s, and can fit in many bags still attached to the camera body, which is not the case the 150-600s.

Yes, the Canon 100-400mm has significant sticker shock, but I guarantee you that you will rarely have a bad shot with it that is the fault of the lens. It has actually made me a better photographer. Images are always very sharp.

Thanks. Very good point about the overall length and more importantly that I use DPP and lose lens correction. I do have to work a little harder in post processing when shooting with my sigma. I knew this going in. There are true benefits to sticking with Canon. I've said it before and still believe it. "L" glass too, once you own it you're hooked. I know the Sigma has a lock switch as well... just wondering how much better or different usng barrel ring unlock might be. Cool feature. Sort of unique.

The Canon 100 2.8L increased by $100 for a few months. Recently dropped back down to $799.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 03:33:40 GMT

@Durfwrote:
I've had the Sigma C for about 2 years now and have had quite a lot of fun with it. I've used it mostly on my 80D and its rather sharp throughout the focal range and auto focus is pretty accurate most of the time....I've had it hunt on me a few times but I was using one shot single focus point in low light when it did. Most of the time it just locks right on and you can shoot and shoot and shoot, especially in good light.

It is a big lens and for that reason I don't lug it around all the time and use it as much as I would like too.

What's truely amazing with it is the stabalizer. I think I've only had it on a tripod once or twice as it's amazingly easy to shoot free handed with a great keeper rate once you get used to it. I've got many really sharp images with it shooting free handed at 600mm even when the lighting wasn't idea and using slower shutter speeds. It's quite a chunck of lens, well built, great optics, and well worth the bucks in my opinion. (You just missed the sale though)

Helpful feedback for sure. One of the other thngs in the back of my mind is the Sigma C is about 2 yrs old. The Tamron is a year or less I believe. Saving grace is the USB dock of course. Have read a lot of good things about Sigma's OS. I have it on 2 of the lens I own and can attest to how well it works.

17-70 Contemporary APS-C (Used for 2 yrs.) No longer hve an APS-C body.

24-70 f2.8 v2 FF (got this in Sept of last year)

To Wadizzle's point, I may have to start using LR to get 3rd party lens correction. It simply offers greater versatility.

Sales come and go. Memorial Day is coming, Cinco De Mayo, Mothers Day. Stuff will go on sale again.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

ebiggs1 — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 03:28:33 GMT

"Ernie, I know you have the Tamron. Wanted to get your take as well."

I have all of them ! I prefer the Sigma S but the Tamron G2 is probably the best for IQ. At least until somebody else comes out with a new mdel. I shoot the big S handheld all the time. I don't recommend others do it without trying it first. And for an extended amount of time. If I were you and, today, wanted the best of the bunch and it is slight I would by the Tamron G2. However you really can't go wrong with any of them. They are so close.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

ebiggs1 — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 03:40:22 GMT

My favorite lenses in this category are the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 DG OS HSM Lens and the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sports Lens. I shoot both handheld. They are nearly the same size and weight. I guess it is what you get use to. I shoot them on a 1 series, too, so that doesn't help with the weight.

You really need to get Lightroom and stop using DPP for your editing. After you get LR and learn it, you will understand why I say that.

Here is the big Siggy handheld. It can be done.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:47:44 GMT

I've used Adobe products in the past. They have their merits. Like many here I dont believe or wish to support subscription based software. LR6 (disk) appears to be largely abandoned. You have to jump through hoops to get the de-haze feature and all I found was post after post of people who had difficulties getting v6.12 or > which is needed for.cr2 support on my 6D2.

Good software or not, it sounds like a PITA and that I'll be investing time to something that is unsustainable. I have a copy of 5.5 I never installed. I'm sure 6 is available to me as well. I know where to look. But I stopped helping myself to others software. After working in the industry, you gain respect for the hard work that goes into development. I'm afraid adobe's business model would aggravate me. They do not seem to be very concerned with retaining customers and I'm not going to "rent" it. I know their software is the industry standard (for now), but they are not the only act in town. I want something more sustainable with some longevity without subscription. DxO PhotoLab looks to be a better choice for me. Can be installed on 3 machines, and supports all of lenses I'm considering and more.

Anyway I'm here to make a lens decision. I'll have to figure out what path I can take to get support for lens correction without perpetually renting or supporting a dying product. Am I wrong?

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

ebiggs1 — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:12:30 GMT

OK, fine and the lens choice for me as of 4/25/2018 would be the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2.

However, I will make some points you may not be aware of.

"...their software is the industry standard (for now), but they are not the only act in town." I have been in the business professionally for 40 years and now 16 years in retirement. Still active and working. Adobe is the only game in town and will be for the foreseeable future. Denying that will only hurt you not Adobe. Check Adobe stock. It has done nothing but go up so I doubt they are truly concerned about customers.

I feel for you. I hate the rental structure as many folks do. But several software companies are going that route. Office for instance. My current PS and LR support my gear so I am happy. I hope you find one that satisfies your needs.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:38:10 GMT

Thanks Ernie and others... appreciate everyone's feedback thus far.

This really says it all about LR (perpetual license)

Or you can go to a 2 step method via DNG

MAC / Windows All Perpetual License - All of them

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

cicopo — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 18:26:58 GMT

You can research the heck out of this but in the end there is one important veriable that never makes into the reviews & that's how it's used when not mounted on a sturdy tripod. If you're going to hand hold any of them for long periods you'll be the weak link in the IQ chain. I shoot the Sigma C & although it gets heavy after a few hours it still delivers sharp images at my radio control flying events which are very demanding re panning & IS (or OS VC etc) being at their best.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 18:58:54 GMT

Thanks cicopo,

Sigma C, I am starting to lean in that direction. I have the dock, weight is reasonable, good IQ based on all the reviews I've read and watched. Your recoimmendation too. Zooms in the direction I'm accoustomed to as well..

Many of the video reviews actually showed people shooting without a tripod. Great results. One guy was even shooting with a EF 600mm f4, and that dude is 8.4lbs. That would be brutal though.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

cicopo — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:20:41 GMT

I have posted this before but here's the story. A very good friend & fellow Canon shooter has an aerobatic plane with the signatures of the Snowbird pilots plus ISS Comander Chris Hadfield on 1 wing. I have tried to get a nice clean shot at a few events using my standard 1/500 setting for prop blur & done very well but 2 summers ago I decided to use a BIF setting & this is the result. The plane is flying left to right in a set of constant rolls. I tried to time my shots so I would have goos sun but not a reflection as it performed each roll. 1 is the full frame & the other is a tight crop after processing in CS6. Canon 1D4, Sigma 150-600 C at 468 mm, ISO 200, 1/2000 Hand held (I turned the full frame shot so that both views are at the same angle

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 14:23:26 GMT

I saw when you posted those images previously and enjoyed seeing the signatures on the left wing. Quite a shot.

So the SigC hasn't had a FW update since 2016, and it was mostly to improve compatibility with lens mount converters. Also claims to quiet aperature lens blade noise during video. I doubt I will shoot video with a lens of this FL.

The Tamron G2 is on v1 FW. No updates since it was released. Did win best tele-photo zoom in 2017. If that counts for anything.

B and H has the Tamron for $1299 after rebate. I have another credit I can apply. It includes a free Tap-In and B&W UV filter. Lens is weather sealed and has newer flourine coatings.

Sigma has a C refurb with 1.4x teleconverter for less than 1K, extra reach is enticing.

Warranty is 6 yrs on Tamron, 90 days on Sig C Refurb. Feeling like I am starting to over think this now. Almost there.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

ebiggs1 — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 15:15:49 GMT

" Lens is weather sealed..."

Lens is 'slightly' weather sealed. More splash resistant than anything. It is not in the same category as a Canon 'weather' sealed lens. It is, however, the best of the current crop.

"...B&W UV filter"

I am on and off again user of the use of a protective filter on these lenses. I never use one on my Siggy S. I do have filters for all the other 150-600mil zooms I have. But they come off from time to time. I don't know what B&H offered you but I would get the B+W 95mm Clear MRC 007M Filter for the big Tamron.

I do use and leave it on, the Tiffen 105mm Coarse Thread UV Protector Filter, on my Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 DG OS HSM Lens.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 23:26:28 GMT

Ernie,
Right. I realize they mean a few drips, and light moisture. My 24-70 Art is the same, but it did well in a few Russian rains. I don't subject my equipment to heavy rain, but having slightly above average dust and water resistence is nice.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

ebiggs1 — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 22:33:34 GMT

Rick, if you wanted "weather proof" the Siggy Sport is the only game in town. It is why I bought mine and why I use it most of the time. It is heavy as stated before but I have gotten used to heavy gear a long long time ago. I had a job durning hurrican Ivan a few years ago for instance.

The reason I don't use a filter on this guy is the front element has a special coating that simply wipes off. Anything and everything.....so far anyways. The main reason for a filter is protection of that expensive front element. Not so for the big Siggy S. This lens and my EOS 1DX love each other. They work fantasticly together.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

Waddizzle — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 23:14:51 GMT

@shadowsportswrote:
I saw when you posted those images previously and enjoyed seeing the signatures on the left wing. Quite a shot.

So the SigC hasn't had a FW update since 2016, and it was mostly to improve compatibility with lens mount converters. Also claims to quiet aperature lens blade noise during video. I doubt I will shoot video with a lens of this FL.

I do not recall the date, but the most recent firmware update on the Sigma C that I know about completely rewrote the AF algorithms. The update completely changed the lens. Sigma claims that it focuses 40% faster, that it’s quieter, and the OS no longer gets into a tug-war with the autofocus.

I updated my lens, and I noticed that I could complete discard all of the AFMA adjustments I had made with the dock. The lens no longer has soft AF, above 500mm. It is quieter, and faste. I have begun to use it again. After buying a 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM, I had put my Sigma S into semi-retirement, pondering which son I should curse by giving it to him.

While it is not my choice for BIF, it is great for outdoor sports on a large field ... ... on a bright sunny day.

Re: Another 150-600mm Thread

shadowsports — Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:38:51 GMT

Finally made up my mind. I'm going to do the SigmaC with TC1401 for extra reach.

Wadizzle, your mention of the complete AF re-write. I missed this during my intial reseach. v1.02 released May 2016 included the AF enhancements. in Oct, they released v1.03 that incuded the mount converter compatibility enhancements I mentioned earlier (something I won't use). The TC-1401 and lens are supported by my dock. I'm going to go for the refurb "kit" directly from Sigma.

The sports model is very compelling, the IQ is impressive, but when I thought about how I would use the lens, the C made the most sense. Ernie, I'm going with your UV filter recommendation. The lens does have a crazy water and oil repellent coating, but I'll probably keep a filter on it for walking around in the bushes. It's a long lens.

Next influencing characteristic was the customizations mode switch which can be programmed via the dock. I won't use this initially, but it is something I see myself using in the future. So it's ordered and on the way.

Thanks guys for the insight, recommendations and great help.