topic Re: Which 24-70mm??? in EF & RF Lenses

Which 24-70mm???

bud297 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 17:12:23 GMT

Hi I currently have a 80d but I wil be upgrading to a FF(5d mark iv) by the end of the year. I'm in the process of purchasing a new lens but I am having a hard time trying to decide between the Canon 24-70mm f4l or ther Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2. The canon 24-70mm f2.8 is out of my price range. Which 24-70mm would be best for the 80d right now but more importantly best for the FF camera(5d mark iv) I upgrade to?

Re: Which 24-70mm???

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 19:53:24 GMT

I could live with either but I think I would go Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM Lens. Two things enter here. I have the Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD G2 Lens and I can say it is a fantastic lens. Second place to the top of the mark Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Lens in my book. However, the two things, do you need f2.8? And, the Canon f4 is very good and $300 or $400 cheaper. You mentioned budget!

Re: Which 24-70mm???

RobertTheFat — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 19:54:38 GMT

If you're going to settle for an f/4 lens, you probably should also consider the Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS (Mk I or II). It's more or less the standard walkaround lens for Canon FF cameras. For me, it's the go-to lens outdoors in the daytime. I also have the 24-70mm f/2.8L II, but I consider that to be primarily an indoor event lens (paired with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II).

Those lenses and the ones you mentioned are a bit long on an 80D. They're all very usable on an 80D, but I don't think I'd buy any of them (in preference to the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, for example) unless I were planning to go FF.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:05:42 GMT

"... you probably should also consider the Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS (~~Mk I or~~ II)"

I like that idea too. But keep in mind the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens is more expensive. $200 more I think ?

The first version of the 24-105mil (there is no such thing as a Mk I) isn't in the same class as these newer ones.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

RobertTheFat — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:38:40 GMT

@ebiggs1wrote:
"... you probably should also consider the Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS (~~Mk I or~~ II)"

I like that idea too. But keep in mind the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens is more expensive. $200 more I think ?
The first version of the 24-105mil (there is no such thing as a Mk I) isn't in the same class as these newer ones.

The difference between the "first version" and the Mk II is $100 at B&H as I type this. That difference doesn't suggest that the prevailing wisdom considers them to be "not in the same class". I suppose that if I were buying today, I'd spring for the Mk II, But given that the Mk II is larger and heavier, I'll stick with my original for the foreseeable future.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:46:07 GMT

"That difference doesn't suggest that the prevailing wisdom considers them to be "not in the same class". "

The IQ doesn't even match up. Not debatable.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

TCampbell — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:26:05 GMT

I have the Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM (mark I). If I were buying today, I'd get the mark II. But I haven't bothered to upgrade my lens becuase it's not a lens I use very often.

If I'm taking something "artsy" and I want some background blur, etc. then f/2.8 doesn't generate a lot of out of focus blur in the 24-70 range... the 70-200, on the other hand, generates very pleasant blur (particularly at the long end). This means my 24-70 is mostly relegated to candid shots (and often indoors), but not portraits (if they were portraits, I'd grab my 85mm f/1.4).

I will make a general comment...

If you want a full frame camera because you were hoping for an improvement in image quality, then you're going to need to supply your camera with a diet of high-quality lenses.

What you get when you move to full frame is a couple of things.

#1 You typically do get better low-light performance (especially with a 5D IV ... it's a nice improvement in both ISO and dynamic range).

#2 When comparing an 80D (or any APS-C body) to a 5D IV (or any full-frame body) using the same focal length (e.g. just pick on 100mm) you'll find you get a wider angle of view with the full-frame camera.

For an APS-C camera at 100mm, the field of view is 12.8° in the wide direction. With a full-frame camera it's 20.4° using the same lens. The focal length is the focal length and all the math about focal lengths don't change. BUT... since the angle of view is wider, the photographer will typically change how they shoot ... by moving in closer to the subject so they get the equivalent composition (e.g. suppose it was a portrait). When they do this, the shorter camera to subject focus distance means that the depth of field was reduced and THIS means that the background blur will be increased.

If I take a subject at 16' away using a 100mm lens using a crop-frame camera, and then do the math to calculate the dimensional field of view (it's 3' 7.2" wide by 2' 4.8" or a diagonal of 4' 3.9") and I flip to a full-frame camera, I would get the SAME dimensions if I move closer... to 10' (notice that 10 x 1.6 = 16 ... so it literally is the difference of the crop factor).

But this difference will actually make quite a noticable change in depth of field. For example, at f/2.8 (using a circle-of-confusion size of 0.019mm) the depth of field at 10' would be 16' would be 9.8", but the depth of field at 10' would be 3.8" (that's quite a noticeable reduction).

This is why you'll hear people say the full-frame cameras are better for things such as portraits... those people are probably going for the increase in background blur.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

diverhank — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 19:20:38 GMT

@bud297wrote:
Hi I currently have a 80d but I wil be upgrading to a FF(5d mark iv) by the end of the year. I'm in the process of purchasing a new lens but I am having a hard time trying to decide between the Canon 24-70mm f4l or ther Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2. The canon 24-70mm f2.8 is out of my price range. Which 24-70mm would be best for the 80d right now but more importantly best for the FF camera(5d mark iv) I upgrade to?

From my perspective, you should always consider "buy it once, buy it right". To me, this means getting the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L II IS USM - top of the line, best of the best. If you can't afford new, you might want to consider the used market. But then if you can afford the 5D mark IV, you can also afford the 24-70 II...it's a matter of willingness, I think :).

Many people I know keep getting a lesser model then keep upgrading...in the process they end up spending a lot more money than to just get the "right" one right away. Performance-wise, it may be perfectly alright for the other models discussed herein but there's also a human element...unless you're immune, it will keep gnawing at you that you didn't get the best...sooner or later you will have to upgrade... Imho, the 5D Mark IV deserves a Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

ebiggs1 — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 13:56:42 GMT

"...you should always consider "buy it once, buy it right""

I totally agree with that. Could not say it better. Always buy the best you can afford.

"...people I know keep getting a lesser model then keep upgrading...in the process they end up spending a lot more money than to just get the "right" one right away."

Again, absolutely spot on. Seen it many times

Re: Which 24-70mm???

shadowsports — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 02:35:12 GMT

@bud297wrote:
Hi I currently have a 80d but I wil be upgrading to a FF(5d mark iv) by the end of the year. I'm in the process of purchasing a new lens but I am having a hard time trying to decide between the Canon 24-70mm f4l or ther Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 G2. The canon 24-70mm f2.8 is out of my price range. Which 24-70mm would be best for the 80d right now but more importantly best for the FF camera(5d mark iv) I upgrade to?

If you are considering the Tamron 24-70 f2.8 at all... Also look at the Sigma 24-70 f2.8. All I'm going to say. I have it, I love it.

But, everythng the guys said about this lens being a little "long" on your 80D is true. Its a great walk around lens on a FF body.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

bud297 — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 19:03:31 GMT

Yes I've been on eBay and bid on a few Canon 24-70mm f2.8L II USM lenses. So I'm buying it right!

Re: Which 24-70mm???

Waddizzle — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 20:45:49 GMT

@bud297wrote:
Yes I've been on eBay and bid on a few Canon 24-70mm f2.8L II USM lenses. So I'm buying it right!

If you are buying it from eBay, you are quite likely buying it wrong. I do not advise purchasing big ticket items on eBay, most especially used items. If I were spending that much money, I would want a factory warranty.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/contactus/where-to-buy/

If you are not buying a NEW lens from a Canon Factory Authorized Dealer, then you will not get a warranty. Use the above link to to see if the seller is an authorized dealer.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

limvo05 — Thu, 17 May 2018 05:05:32 GMT

I would ask what kind of photos do you want to take with this lens? I normally use the 24-70 for landscape photography as supposed to portrait or sport. 24-70 does not have the reach like the 70-200 has, thus even at 2.8 aperture you are not going to get the background as blury like you would with the 70-200 because of the DOF.

I have the Canon 24-70 2.8 mark ii and I mostly use it for landscape. I use the 70-200 2.8 Mark 1 for portrait, landscape and may be sport photography. Personally, I think the 70-200 is a better investment. Again, it's really depends on what kind of photography you want to take, then get the lense you need. Cheers.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

ebiggs1 — Thu, 17 May 2018 16:15:07 GMT

"Yes I've been on eBay and bid on a few Canon 24-70mm f2.8L II USM lenses. So I'm buying it right!"

I don't know, are you? Someone mentioned the Tamron and Sigma. In terms of IQ as most people can't seem to get past that one spec, it goes Canon...............................................Tamron.......Sigma. I have all three. I use all three. It's just the way it is.

Re: Which 24-70mm???

TCampbell — Thu, 17 May 2018 16:44:39 GMT

Buying camera gear from eBay makes me nervous and I would advise against it (even though I'm sure thousands of people have found good deals this way).

it's really a question of risk.

If you buy from Canon (new or refurb) you know what you're getting and it comes with a warranty.

If you buy from a major used equipment resller (KEH, B&H Photo's used dept., Adorama's used dept. etc.) then you know that (a) a competent person has inspected the used goods and (b) a 'grade' has been assigned to the condition of the used goods and you can trust the grade is fair and accurate. If they tell you it's in like new condition... it's in like-new condition. If they tell you it should only be used for spare parts... you can be sure that it isn't a working lens and should only be used for salvaging spare parts. They're honest -- even when it's ugly.

If you buy from a private seller on say... Craiglist... you can meet that person at a safe location (e.g. a coffee shop) and IF (and this is a big "if") YOU know what to look for, you can inspect the lens for damage, make sure there are no signs of major knocks such as dents or major scratches. Look through it make sure it's clean through and through. Make sure there aren't issues such as fungus or damage to coatings, etc. And then you can connect it to your camera to make sure the zoom ring, focus ring, etc. all work smoothly with no binding... and that the aperture blades work, the image stabilization works, etc. In other words you can check out it out for yourself BEFORE you buy so you know what you're getting (but this assumes YOU know what to look for).

If you buy from eBay... now you've got some limitations. You have to trust that the seller is (a) honest and (b) qualified to KNOW if their equipment is trouble-free. You could have a dishonest seller who knows it's a problem but is going to take advantage of the fact that you can't inspect the gear -or- (b) even if they are an honest seller, they may not even realize the equipment has a serious problem (such as internal fungus on the lens coatings.) This is compounded by the fact that you don't really have any way of checking it out for yourself and have no idea of the qualifications of the seller's ability to fairly and accurately rate the condition of the gear.

I consider eBay to be one of the more-risky places to buy photo gear.

If you saved a few bucks because you found a good deal and won the auction on eBay... but the gear isn't in the condition you expected and now it needs serious work (or a hassle to try to get your money back)... did you really 'save'?

Re: Which 24-70mm???

bud297 — Thu, 17 May 2018 17:11:06 GMT

I went and purchased the canon 24-70 f2.8 ii and I did purchase it off of ebay. I had no issues with the transaction or seller. It was a brand new one that the seller purchased but never used. Thanks for all the input though!

Re: Which 24-70mm???

Waddizzle — Thu, 17 May 2018 23:46:03 GMT

@bud297 wrote:
I went and purchased the canon 24-70 f2.8 ii and I did purchase it off of ebay. I had no issues with the transaction or seller. It was a brand new one that the seller purchased but never used. Thanks for all the input though!

Good luck. I hope you have gotten your hands on a good one, because I don’t think that you will have a Canon warranty.