topic Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro in EF & RF Lenses

What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Wayne3 — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:42:43 GMT

Hi folks!

I've been playing around with photography for close to a year now, almost all of that has been wildlife so the couple of lenses I have bought have been longer focal length. Ocassionally though, I see a flower or an insect I love. I haven't had bad results just using whatever lens I have on at the time. Below is a crocus taken with the kit lens (Canon 18-55 mm f5.6 ) and a bumblebee (Canon 100-400 mm also a f5.6 the only good piece of glass I have, my third lens is the Canon 55-250mm my camera is an old Canon Rebel T4i). I don't think I am ready to splurge on a macro lens yet. So, if I want to take a close up should I be using the the widest lens I have, does it matter?

Thanks!

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:07:31 GMT

IMHO, none of the lenses you have are worthy for what you are asking them to do. That's why your photos look the way they do. That is probably the best you can expect with them.

You need a true macro lens!

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

RobertTheFat — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:34:50 GMT

@Wayne3 wrote:
Hi folks!

I've been playing around with photography for close to a year now, almost all of that has been wildlife so the couple of lenses I have bought have been longer focal length. Ocassionally though, I see a flower or an insect I love. I haven't had bad results just using whatever lens I have on at the time. Below is a crocus taken with the kit lens (Canon 18-55 mm f5.6 ) and a bumblebee (Canon 100-400 mm also a f5.6 the only good piece of glass I have, my third lens is the Canon 55-250mm my camera is an old Canon Rebel T4i). I don't think I am ready to splurge on a macro lens yet. So, if I want to take a close up should I be using the the widest lens I have, does it matter?

Thanks!

What camera are you using?

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Wayne3 — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:57:58 GMT

Rebel T4i

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

jrhoffman75 — Wed, 15 Jul 2020 21:13:56 GMT

You should get a set of extension tubes.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 00:06:52 GMT

@Wayne3 wrote:

Hi folks!

Thanks!

True Macro lenses tend to be on the telephoto side (60mm, 100mm, 160mm), and the longer the telephoto the further you can be from your subject, which helps to avoid shadowing and may make it easier to use available light. You can get close-up shots with a fair range of focal lengths but these guides may help.

The closer you are the narrower the dept of field (DoF)
The wider the aperture the narrower the DoF
The longer the focal length the narrower the DoF

A lot depends on how close you want to get and the effect you are trying to achieve. If you want a very narrow DoF and with nice fuzzy surrounds then go close, use a wide aperture and a long focal length. If you want lots of crisp depth you will need a narrow aperture and perhaps a shorter focal length.

If the object is REALLY small and you want lots of DoF then you may need to set the camera on tripod and using photo stacking - whereby you get the camera to take a series of shots at slightly different focal points on the subject and then use post processing software to incorporate them into one image with the sum of the sharp areas combined. None of the following images have used this technique.

I have shot reasonably close with several lenses, one of my favourite, cheaper lenses is the 18-135 STM.

The first two images below were taken with this lens, hand-held (in good sunlight!) at its maximum focal length.

Canon EOS 80D, EF-S 18-135 IS STM@135mm, f/8, 1/2000sec, ISO-200

I was quite close to the bee and f/8 was not a very small aperture, but I was hand-holding and didn't want any camera movement. The result is a pretty narrow DoF, but enough to capture the bee's eyes and a good part of its body.

Canon EOS 80D EF-S 18-135 IS STM, 135mm, f/7.1, 1/1600 sec, ISO-320

While this was taken with a wider aperture the subject was much flatter, so I could get a reasonably sharp image and still be hand held

The following image was taken with the EF 70-300 IS USM MkII also hand-held in available light - the subject is perhaps 2cm (3/4") across in reality.

Canon EOS 80D, EF 70-300 IS USM MkII, 278mm, f/5.6, 1/250 sec, ISO-100

Obviously a fairly wide aperture and I wanted that to lose any chance of seeing a recognizable background.

If you want to get in REALLY close then using extension tubes (or rings) will effectively increase the magnification, but will render a darker image and will likely disable autofocus and may inhibit metering. Another, very cheap solution, is to get a reversing ring for your lens mount. This will definitely block any automatic features since the lens is reversed on the camera and will give you a norrow DoF, but will really give you a close-up result.

The following two links take you to images showing in the current Museum of Natural History Wildlife Photographer of the Year show. They were both taken with a kit lens (18-55) using a reversing ring. The results are excellent, but very hard to acheive, so the photographer very much deserves kudos for his skill.

Dinner for One and Face of Deception

If you are prepared to invest in a macro lens, Canon Makes excellent 60mm and 100mm f/2.8 (non-L) macro lenses that represent a good balance of optics, focal length and price! Furthermore, these macro lenses make excellent portrait lenses!

The following images were taken with the 100mm lens but very different cameras, both using available light.

Canon EOS 5DsR, EF 100 f/2.8 macro, f/10, 1/5 sec, ISO-100

Canon EOS 650D (Rebel T4i), EF 100 f/2.8, f/15, 1/40 sec, ISO-400

Putting the 100mm unit on a crop sensor give it a Field of View equivalent to that of a 160mm lens on a FF body.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

RobertTheFat — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:11:12 GMT

@Wayne3 wrote

Rebel :T4i

Then I think I'd recommend the EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro. I've never used it, but my wife has one and likes it a lot. It's her second most used lens (behind the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8).

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:35:57 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Wayne3 wrote
Rebel :T4i
Then I think I'd recommend the EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro. I've never used it, but my wife has one and likes it a lot. It's her second most used lens (behind the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8).

I would agree - I have the EF-S 60 as well, and it is a great lens for both macro and portrait work.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:02:15 GMT

OK, OK enough!

I am afraid I am going to be forced to ban you from showing us average photographers your photos. Man those are good. That last one is outa sight.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:21:41 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
OK, OK enough!
I am afraid I am going to be forced to ban you from showing us average photographers your photos. Man those are good. That last one is outa sight.

Ernie, thank you for your kind words.

I am sincerely not presenting these as great works of photographic art, just to show that one does not have to be limited to expensive specialist macro gear to get a tolerably acceptable image. If I make a recommendation I like to back it up with an image to prove my point, hence the proliferation of shots. For example the last one is taken with exactly the same camera as the OP has, something that I hope makes it more relevent.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 20:21:48 GMT

Right!

I am just drooling over some of your shots and wishing I had taken it. Keep'em comin'.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Waddizzle — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 21:25:48 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
You should get a set of extension tubes.

I agree with John. Getting a set of extension tubes is probably the best way to test the waters of macro photography.

Extension tubes are not expensive. Just do not buy the least expensive set you can find. You want the type that allow the camera to still be able to communicate with the lens, so that you can control aperture.....and perhaps, autofocus.

The macro filters and adapters that screw on to the filter threads of a lens are not very good, because they are habitually made form low quality glass.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 00:43:08 GMT

Ernie did you check out the two photo links to the WWLPY? Those two images of insects taken with reversed kit lenses are amazing...

Looking at them I am suitably humbled.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 00:56:19 GMT

I did not. I will.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 00:57:45 GMT

"The macro filters and adapters that screw on to the filter threads of a lens are not very good, ..."

Neither are extension tubes.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:52:18 GMT

Like most folks here I use macro lenses for close-up imagery, but the question from the OP was what kind of alternative setup would get them close and personal without that investment. Well, you can't say I'm not prepared to try every option! After the debate on extension rings I thought I would delve into my rarely-used camera gear box and see if I could get an image from them, something I had not made a serious attempt to do previously.

Just for a lark, and to add to the challenge, I took the much-maligned Canon EF 28-90 f4-5.6 USM lens (circa 1991): while not renowned for its quality of build it did get some kudos for its close-up performance (in fact it did considerably better than the 18-55). To that I added my generic extension (all plastic) tube set (13+21+31mm) but with communication and focus capability. I attached ALL of the tubes to the lens and the whole thing to my Canon EOS M via the EF adaptor. There was frankly a wafer thin DoF.

I put the whole assembly on a Gorillapod and went in search of action - using available light. And then I spotted this tiny wee caterpillar, it was about the thickness of thread... This is the result:

Canon EOS M, EF 28-90mm @ 76mm + 55mm, f/10, 1/25 sec, ISO-160

The flowers are tiny and measure about 1.5cm (about 1/2") across. The caterpiller is not really thicker than a thread - the back part was WAY out of focus.

To complete the options I might have a shot at using a reversing ring with the same lens or my 18-55 to see if I can get anything like a decent result - you can't get much cheaper than that... No, I don't expect the fabulous result achieved by the Wildlife Photographer of the Year contributor referenced in my previous post!!

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:31:27 GMT

"... a wafer thin DoF."

It's not whether extension tubes work or not it is just they are a PITA to use. Plus, it usually means that you are using a lens that has not been designed for macro use. I have a few extension sets myself. I don't use them because a true macro lens is so much better.

Even though sets are cheap, some very cheap, it is money that could be put towards a macro lens.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Waddizzle — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 15:49:37 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"... a wafer thin DoF."

It's not whether extension tubes work or not it is just they are a PITA to use. Plus, it usually means that you are using a lens that has not been designed for macro use. I have a few extension sets myself. I don't use them because a true macro lens is so much better.

Even though sets are cheap, some very cheap, it is money that could be put towards a macro lens.

Extension tubs are a good way to test the waters without shelling big bucks for a true macro lens, though.

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

Tronhard — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 04:22:36 GMT

Well, as indicated, I tried out the reversing ring to see what it was like shooting a 3-D object. Considering there is not metering and focus is severely limited I didn't expect much.

I used the same EF 28-90 USM lens as before (for consistency). I could not use the same EOS M with adaptor this time - I guess the adaptor would not tolerate the compromises as the shutter would not release. So, I used the same EOS 650 (T4i) that the OP was using.

I used it hand-held as there was nowhere to put a tripod on this occasion. I shot with the LCD display to get the closest exposure setting I could. In this image I tried to line up as many buds etc. as I could to get more in focus. There were no caterpillers or bugs today.

Gory details: Canon EOS 650D (T4i) EF 28-90 USM

So I can say I have experienced pretty much all of the options and these would be my preferences in decending order.

A true macro lens
Close focusing telephoto lenses
A set of extension rings
A reversing ring

The fellow I mentioned in my first post who got the amazing shots with the reversing ring on an 18-55 kit lens gets further respect from me!!! The guy is a legend... IMHO

Re: What lens do you use for close ups when you don't have a macro

ebiggs1 — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:44:31 GMT

"So I can say I have experienced pretty much all of the options and these would be my preferences in decending order.

A true macro lens
Close focusing telephoto lenses
A set of extension rings
A reversing ring"

I would be good with assessment.