topic Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball in EF & RF Lenses

Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:05:39 GMT

I'm using a Canon EOS R7. Looking for a good lens to cover indoor basketball. I sit just under and to the side of the basket. Looking to spend no more than $600. Any ideas / advice?

C2C

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

kvbarkley — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:11:56 GMT

What lens do you have?

Do you have the RF to EF adapter?

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

kvbarkley — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:14:01 GMT

The RF 100-400 is $650, which would be the best bet for your budget.

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:17:23 GMT

Thx for the feedback - very much appreciated. I'm about to buy the R7 with the adaptor. If I use that Rf 100-400 will my pix be better than what my t8i has been producing? I'm worried that I wont be able to shoot lower than F/5.6.

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

March411 — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 21:51:29 GMT

That's the challenge you have, at your budget you are not going to pick up a fast lens. I have the RF100-400mm and its a nice lens, fast focus, sharp and light weight.

I normally use a 2.8 for indoor sports, some say f4 is fine. You will have to bump up your ISO which will result in more noise. Do you have software that can assist with noise reduction?

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 22:20:11 GMT

Really appreciate the feedback/mentorship. I’m certainly new to all this.

Use Adobe LR for processing.

do you think the 100-400mm will be OK in the gym or under the lights in a football stadium?

ready to buy the R7 - just hesitant because of noise.

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

March411 — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 23:04:59 GMT

C2C,

Lightroom does have a decent denoise tool so that will help you depending on the path you take when purchasing equipment.

I think the RF100-400mm is going to struggle in low light, and the R7 also has some challenges with noise. It sounds like you have a budget that you are attempting to maintain which is a good practice. Hopefully kvbarkley and others will jump in with their thoughts.

Personally I do not use my 100-400mm in low light, it struggles resulting in high ISO and quite a bit of noise.

It's a tough decision, budget over what equipment to purchase. I use my 100-400mm all the time but with no disrespected intended towards kvbarkley recommendation I am not sure this would work for low light sports that will require higher shutter speeds.

Also, if you are in the US try to look at the Canon USA site. The refurbished section has a lot to offer. I have made several purchases from there, the products are like new and the prices are reduced. There is an R6 Mk II that would be a good by @ $1760 if you can swing it.

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 00:24:37 GMT

Thx for this - again, very much appreciated.

I'm trying to remain south of $2K. Would be great to grab a R6 MKII. With an adaptor I assume I could use my EF 70-250.

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

shadowsports — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 00:46:01 GMT

Greetings,

I started this post about 3 hrs ago... got called away. Late to the game, but see you got some good responses.

I think that your current budget , camera and potential lens choice might impede or keep you from achieving your goal of indoor sports photography. In order to capture motion, you will likely need to use a fast shutter speed. The RF 100-400 has a variable aperture. F5.6-8. I think it's highly probable that you will experience challenges capturing photos indoor using a shutter speed that is fast enough to freeze motion with the minimum aperture this lens is capable of. The R7 is not known for exceptional low light performance. High school gymnasiums may not be well lit.

So as you can see we are of similar belief regarding this camera / lens combination for indoor sports.

Sorry I was late to post. 🙂

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 00:59:53 GMT

What do you think of the R6 Mark II? That would be better, correct?

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

March411 — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 01:05:44 GMT

Understand and respect the budget!

Correct with the adapter you EF lens should work, It's a bit old so there is no guarantee. Which one do you own, there were three different releases in that focal length.

Original released in 2008
Mark II version was released in June 2011 with the same optics and image stabilization system as the original, but with a redesigned exterior.
A version 3 released in August 2013 with a revised optical formula and Canon's STM motor.

Do you have a store or a place that does rentals near you? You could give them a call and ask if you could bring the lens to test with an adapter and the R7?

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

March411 — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 03:03:03 GMT

C2C, hopefully Rick will stop by too and add to this post. The R6 Mk II does have better low light performance over the R7.

The R7 has some challenges with rolling shutter and those challenges are reduced in the R6 Mk II

Both bodies have positives and negatives. This may help with the comparison, if you have questions just hit us up, someone here will be able to assist and give you an answer.

Canon R6 II vs Canon R7 Comparison

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 03:16:59 GMT

This is terrific - thank you so much! I'm in a much better head-space now after a few days of pouring over so many details. Again, thanks so much!

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

wq9nsc — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 04:20:49 GMT

I am late to the party and it sounds like there is some "budget creep" but that is a good thing with what you are trying to do. 🙂

Is your goal to cover the entire court with a single lens from your position in the end court? If so, a 100-400 is too long for covering the near basket area with a full frame 6 series and way too long with an APS C 7 series sensor.

For HS basketball, I use three bodies and three lenses with 1DX III bodies and 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, and 300 f2.8 to cover the court from one location. Any telephoto longer than 300 won't be needed on a full frame sensor and around 200 is all you need with a "crop sensor" body.

Even with modern gear, f4 is about the limit for good photos unless you are shooting D1 college or better because typical gym lighting is decent but not great. Increased noise with higher ISO is part of the issue but ALL cameras (mirrorless and DSLR) will focus a little slower in low light with narrow maximum aperture lenses. For a couple of HS gyms in the area I found it best to use EF 85 f1.8 and EF 200 f2 lenses because the light level was bad enough that it was better to "zoom" with my feet than use my usual gear setup. So try to avoid anything "worse" than f4 in the range you will be using if you use a variable aperture zoom.

If you are doing a single lens you will need at least 50mm at the wide end (say around 30mm with an APS C sensor) and at least 200 at the tele end when using a full frame body. If you can keep the ISO reasonable, you can always crop the image but there is no way to add back what you can't fit within the frame at the point of capture and at the speed of basketball you have to leave some margin of error on the edges most of the time.

Below are some photos to give you an idea of what various lens focal lengths will provide while shooting from the floor just behind the basket. The first is with a 24-70 2.8 @ 28mm, the second is with the same lens but @ 70mm, the third with a 70-200 f2.8 @ 200, and the last with a 300 f2.8 prime. Most of your shots of ball handling near the goal will be within 70mm so you really don't want a lens that starts at 100 unless you are willing to back up to the wall which tends to limit your mobility.

Rodger

EF 24-70 f2.8 @ 28EF 24-70 f2.8 @ 70EF 70-200 f2.8 @ 200EF 300 f2.8 prime

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 04:35:23 GMT

Thank you so much for this! So incredibly helpful! So a 105mm lens should work OK, I assume?

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

shadowsports — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 05:10:54 GMT

Hi C2C,

Rodger is our resident sports photography expert. He has a great deal of knowledge, and experience shooting all types of sports at various venues. If it runs, jumps or flies through the air, (indoors or out) he's probably taken photos of it.

We'd love to see you stretch you budget a bit and land with the R6mkII if possible. Its lower pixel density and larger photo-sites give it vastly superior low light capability as compared to the R7. Yes, its more money, but I believe it will return on its investment from a performance and satisfaction standpoint. Lenses are actually the real investment in photography and are what you typically carry forward. Photography is not an inexpensive hobby and we understand other priorities affect purchasing decisions. Canon refurbished is a great way to stretch your dollars and save. There are a great many people here who are happy to help you make good purchasing decisions. Don't rush, do research and ask questions. 😃

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 05:19:23 GMT

Terrific to read this note. Made the decision to stretch and will buy the R6MII in the morning. I am looking forward to this next chapter!

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

wq9nsc — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 13:23:15 GMT

105mm will give you a lot of good photos but you really need to have wider angle (under 105mm) for the up close action at the basket. Otherwise you will need to back off to the far corner as your shooting spot and then you will lose a lot because of players getting in the way of the action shot.

Overall, a full frame camera can have an advantage over a "crop sensor" camera because the bigger sensor provides for having larger individual photosites which can gather more light HOWEVER the technology era/level of the sensor is also a major factor in low light performance as is the number of pixels since a highly dense full frame sensor will have smaller photosites than one with lower pixel density. That is something a lot of people miss when they complain about Canon's 1 series cameras not having a competitive number of pixels. The design is optimized for the type of photography for which those bodies excel.

The R6 series will definitely outperform your R7 in lower light situations HOWEVER the biggest impact on camera performance in sports shooting is the lens. A R7 with a great lens for sports (the 70-200 f2.8 or the f4 as a step down) is going to be much better than a R6 II (or even a R1 or 1DX III) with a mediocre lens.

So my view is lens upgrades first, this is where to put your money for sports and most types of photography and then body. A great lens is something you will continue to use even as technology changes and lens technology is "old and stable" compared to the rest of the electronics in digital imaging. A great Canon lens from the early 2000 era is still a great Canon lens while a low cost "kit lens" from 2024 is going to perform optically much like a camera with its kit lens from 2 decades ago. Buy a very good lens now and you will continue to use it. My most used sports lens is an EF 70-200 f2.8 IS III but if it had an issue I wouldn't hesitate to use the EF 70-200 f2.8 non-IS lens I bought with my first 1 series back in 2005 because it is still an incredibly good sports lens. If you can swing a 70-200 f2.8 (consider used if needed to stay in your budget) at the 70mm end with minimal shifting of position on the court it will give you excellent coverage of close up action.

Rodger

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

C2C — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 12:47:26 GMT

Thank you so much!

Re: Lens for Indoor Basketball

wq9nsc — Fri, 08 Nov 2024 13:40:38 GMT

You are welcome! And I look forward to seeing what you capture!

Please always be on alert because a lot of the action doesn't stop at the lines. I captured this shot while sliding to the side as the player crashed into the back padded wall next to me. Two games later, a student photographer for the opposing school got trampled when she was checking her last image captured instead of paying attention to three players crashing the board and ending up spread across the run out area-fortunately the only injury was her camera lens separated into two pieces but she was okay. Sports photography is like driving, you can't let something like your LCD display distract you from what is going on around you.

Rodger