topic Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle? in EF & RF Lenses

Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 04:04:20 GMT

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has used the 85mm sorta like a wide angle in portrait sessions? The 28-70mm interest me for this reason, but the 85mm is beautiful. Anyway thanks for the input.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Tronhard — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 04:26:01 GMT

It would help to have some more detail:
What camera model are you using - it makes a difference
There are multiple versions of both of the two lenses to which you refer:
Which 28-70 are you referring to?
Which 85mm are you referring to?

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

p4pictures — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 07:13:42 GMT

Can you possible explain what you mean by using the 85mm lens as a wide angle for portrait?

I do have the EF 85mm f/1.4L and also the RF 28-70mm F2L and capture a lot of portraits with them, but the field of view of the 85mm on a full-frame EOS camera is not what I'd call a wide angle.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Tronhard — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 08:22:43 GMT

Totally agree! I am curious as to what system is in use and what the OP means by "like a wide angle in portrait sessions".

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

rs-eos — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:13:33 GMT

Do you perhaps mean taking a panorama? I have used a 135mm f/2 lens at its minimum focusing distance and taken nine images of a headshot. Then combined in post. It will give you a wider field of view.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:11:59 GMT

I’m shooting with the R5 and RF 24-105mm L. What I mean is, sometimes in portrait sessions I like to incorporate the environment as well as full body images. I can do this easy with the RF 28-70 but wondering if this is easily achievable with RF 85mm. I assume I would just stand further away with the 85mm to achieve this.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:12:15 GMT

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

rs-eos — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 12:22:06 GMT

Yes. If you need to incorporate more within the frame and will not be doing panoramas, you will only have two options:

Move further back. Clearly, some cons here: your subject will be smaller in the frame, depth of field will not be as shallow (if wanting to minimize DOF is a goal).
Use a wider angle lens. Can lead to distortions in faces when doing headshots, especially if using focal lengths at around 50mm or less. Though the subject can now be larger in the frame.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 13:36:56 GMT

Thank you! A few things (and I may be answering my own question here). My work as a portrait photographer is picking up and I figured I’d invest in the best portrait lens (85mm). Creativity I love it but not fond of it being a fixed lens. Figured the 28-70mm would be a better option but it’s at F2 not F1.2. Basically I love the results of the 85mm at 1.2 but the 28-70mm is more versatile. Also, going through my camera roll, most my portraits aren’t going above 60-70mm and I have the RF 24-105 L already.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

rs-eos — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 13:44:19 GMT

Are you using a full frame camera or crop sensor? While there's no absolute rule for capturing portraits, you typically want to be in the 70 to 200mm range on full frame (or 44 to 125mm on crop sensor).

"Best" focal length is also very subjective. Personally, I prefer 135mm (full frame). What I did was looked at various headshots of the same exact subject taken at multiple focal lengths between 70 and 200 while keeping the framing the same. I just liked the look of the 135mm the best. You may want to do the same to see which specific focal length you may like best.

If you're going to vary between headshots, head & shoulder, half-body, full body, then having a zoom will definitely make life much easier.

I recently posted a topic about minimizing depth of field. Note that the list doesn't include any f/1.2 lenses at the top. So if your goal is to obliterate the background, there are many options. Though I also now have to ask if that is your goal. i.e. you mentioned wanting to include more within your frame. But if shooting at a narrow depth of field, any extra background elements will all be out of focus. Seems like a competing requirement.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 14:02:50 GMT

Thank you. All very good points. I shoot full frame (R5). This probably won’t help your question but sometimes I want to obliterate the background and sometimes I don’t. Other times I like to shoot at F8-F9 so yea lol.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

ebiggs1 — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 15:20:34 GMT

"I’m shooting with the R5 and RF 24-105mm L."

This is simple to answer. Set your current lens to 85mm and fix it there with some gaffers tape and try it.

I have the ef 85mm f1.2L and I love it. I almost never use it!

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:17:21 GMT

I’ve definitely tested the 24-105 at 85 just not on a job. Are you saying you never use the 85?

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

wq9nsc — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:19:09 GMT

I have two flavors of 85mm in the EF mount, the f1.8 which is inexpensive, fast focusing and very easy to use. I also have the EF 85 f1.2 which can produce some incredible results with its ability to provide a very shallow DoF and for this same reason it requires a lot of practice and experience to get consistently good results. Listen well to Ernie about this type of glass, he is very experienced with it and its personality. It definitely isn't a point and shoot lens no matter what body it is used with BUT it will reward you with incredible results when properly applied.

I am a little nervous every time I use the 85 f1.2 because if applied in a way to really utilize its capabilities, it is highly unforgiving with no margin for error. Step it down to f2 and it is much more forgiving but used that way there was no reason to buy such a specialized piece in the first place.

Rodger

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

rs-eos — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 16:45:42 GMT

If you like the 85mm field of view, and need that very shallow DOF, then use the 85mm f/1.2. Otherwise, if you don't need that shallow DOF, or need more in the frame, or the added focal-length flexibility, then use your zoom.

I also still stand by my original reply to your initial question. i.e. only two options to get more in the frame (along with their pros/cons).

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

zakslm — Fri, 16 Feb 2024 19:51:59 GMT

One of my favorite uses for my EF85mm f1.8 USM is outdoor "full body" shots of one or of multiple subject (like my wife and our dog, etc.) while shooting at apertures of f2.8 or larger. On my crop sensor carmera, that's like using a 135mm lens on a full frame camera, so there is some distance required between the camera and the subject.

Specifically, I like the 85mm's perspective and the way it renders the subjects, etc. vs. a 50mm f1.8 or a 24mm f2.8 prime. The shallow(er) depth of field of the 85mm isolates the subject(s) and blurs the background in a way that it pleasing to me. In my opinion and guessing by the popularity of that focal length with portrait and event photographers; an 85mm lens (with a 1.2 to 1.8 maxium aperture) is a great lens for headshots and more.

I'm not sure if the above addresses the Pjdavisphoto's question but I hope that sharing my opinion would be of assistance nonetheless.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

AtticusLake — Sat, 17 Feb 2024 08:44:57 GMT

I assume I would just stand further away with the 85mm to achieve this.

This should work, simplistically; however, to get a full-length picture, you're going to need to stand quite a way back. This means you will need a big studio.

But worse than that, standing back will create a very flat perspective, making your model look flat and 2-dimensional. This is generally not what you want for portraits.

A lot of people will tell you that perspective depends on your lens; they are all wrong, and this right here is why it matters. Perspective depends on the camera-subject distance only. So, what you really want to do is:

Place your camera the right distance from the subject to get the perspective you want. This might be 6 feet for some people, maybe 10-15 feet for people with stronger features. 1-3 feet if you want them to look like a clown.
Pick the lens that gives you the composition you want; a longer lens for a head shot, a wide lens for a full-body shot, etc.
Take the pic.

Not everyone has a massive set of lenses to choose from for step 2; this is where a zoom can really help. So all in all, I think I would have to recommend the zoom.

People say the 85mm is the "best portrait lens", but that's only because they're making a bunch of assumptions; like that you're going to take a head-and-shoulders shot only. If you want to be more creative -- and it sounds like you do -- then more focal lengths should be a much better answer than moving the camera.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

Pjdavisphoto — Sat, 17 Feb 2024 14:00:26 GMT

Thank you for the help. I’ve made the decision to go with the 28-70mm. It fits my creative style more. Now I’ll wait for the rumored 28-70mm MK ll lol.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 17 Feb 2024 15:08:43 GMT

" Step it down to f2 and it is much more forgiving but used that way there was no reason to buy such a specialized piece in the first place."

The is so right on. If you don't need or want f1.2 don't buy the ef 85mm f1.2L.

Re: Treating a 85mm like a wide angle?

ebiggs1 — Sat, 17 Feb 2024 15:14:33 GMT

"I almost never use it!"

I do use it but usually because I have a reason. The ef 85mm f1.2L is really a reworked ef 50mm f1L lens not that makes any difference. The ef 85mm f1.2L is a difficult lens and requires to know that. But in the end there is nothing like 85mm at f1.2.

"Step it down to f2 and it is much more forgiving ..."

However the agonizingly slow AF is still there.

For whatever its worth, I also have the ef 50mm f1.2L.