topic Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode in EF & RF Lenses

R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

DeadeyeJohnny — Mon, 25 Nov 2024 02:34:56 GMT

To all R5C owners, can you please indicate which CANON EF lenses don't work in video mode, so that we can bring it to the attention of Canon engineers who work on firmware updates, as well as warn fellow users which lenses to stay away from in the time being? I know certain third party lenses have issues, but you would think that Canon would at least support their own lenses, but this doesn't seem to be the case at all.

It would be good to compile a list of which ones aren't recognized by the camera's video menu with the "attached lens not supported by the camera. Lens will not work." message. (Edit Nov 24, 2024 I've added a photo of the error message)

To start:

Canon: 17-35mm 2.8L, 85mm 1.2L, Canon 20-35mm 2.8 L, Canon 14mm 2.8 L

Tokina: 28-70 2.8 ATX

Sigma: 35mm 1.4, Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 (works, but iffy auto focus and poor IS functionality)

Tamron: 24-70mm 2.8 G2 (some work fine and some don't), 70-200mm G2, 35mm 1.4

Edit: As pointed out repeatedly by users below, many third party lenses aren't fully compatible with high (photo) burst modes and that's fine, this topic is meant to focus on Canon's incompatible EF glass in VIDEO mode on the R5C/C70 despite their vague marketing that claims compatibility via the EF-RF adapter (see screenshot, attached). I also peaked at the R5C user guide which does make mention of certain "optimal" lenses, for PHOTO mode and there's no mention of optimal nor incompatible lenses in the Cine menu which is frustrating because often the lenses that are prompting the "lens will not work" message on the R5C in Video, turn work perfectly fine in photo mode or on the regular R5 in both photo & video modes, and on all other R series bodies (R6, R3 etc...). Perhaps this will change with the release of the R5Markii and R1.

Error message in Video mode with certain Canon EF lenses.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

shadowsports — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:40:35 GMT

Greetings,

I understand this is a sensitive subject. I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way.

EF17-35 f2.8. A fantastic lens released in 1996 (27 yrs old)

EF 85 f1.2. Another oldie but goodie. mkI 1989 (34 yrs old), mkII 2006 (17 yrs old)

The technology that existed 17-34 years ago isn't what it is today. Unfortunately, this means that some things cannot be adapted to work together.

3rd party. I hope you are open to looking at this from a different perspective. It cannot be Canon's responsibility to ensure compatibility with 3rd party "anything" that they didn't have any say or control in the development or manufacturing of. I feel this responsibility lays with the companies who make these products. They should be responsible for ensuring their "stuff" works with Canon.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

DeadeyeJohnny — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 22:15:11 GMT

I hear ya, I get that they're older model lenses but I don't agree with not supporting them.

I'm still shooting film, on cameras that came out in the 70's, with lenses that are 40-50 years old, I think for me the issue is that Canon promotes the EF-RF adapter as "a way to keep using your EF glass" on mirrorless bodies but as we users transition to the mirrorless systems, we're learning that it's not entirely true and it feels like they're phasing out their EF line by making the conscious decision to not support their own, older lenses. I guess in some ways it's a familiar story as they made the EF mount knowing people wouldn't really be able to use FD lenses (although now, 30 years later Simmod makes this possible). But I guess I was hoping they had changed their tune.

The fact that I can still use a 50 yr old lens adapted to my R5C is incredible, but the fact I can't use my 27 year old lens because Canon didn't feel like adding one line of code into a program, really sucks.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Waddizzle — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 11:45:40 GMT

“ It would be good to compile a list of which ones aren't recognized by the camera's video menu with the "attached lens will not work" message. “

“ The fact that I can still use a 50 yr old lens adapted to my R5C is incredible, but the fact I can't use my 27 year old lens because Canon didn't feel like adding one line of code into a program, really sucks. “

” I hear ya, I get that they're older model lenses but I don't agree with not supporting them. “

—————————————————————————————-

Let me begin by saying it is not an issue of whether or not you agree. The issue is whether or not you understand how the gear works and why much of it not FULLY compatible.

I have not downloaded a copy of the User Guide for the R5C, but I seem to recall that there is a list of compatible lenses in the User Guide for the R5. I do not recall the exact compatibility for which the list was created, but I believe it was related to video. I suggest that you check your R5C User Guide to see if it includes a similar list.

Could you please define what exactly “don’t work” means? What is the exact error message, if any, that you are getting? What is leading you to conclude that your lenses “don’t work.”

Canon does not support third party lenses, so there is no point in continuing that line of conversation. The majority of the problems with the older Canon lenses are related to physical issues, not firmware issues.

One problem with the older EF lenses is that most were not designed for video. Many have loud and noisy apertures. The mirror slap and shutter click of a DSLR typically masks it. The apertures may not change smoothly from one setting to another. Instead, the lens will “jump” to the next aperture setting, which imitates what an aperture ring on a photo-centric lens would do. Cinema lenses tend have “declicked” aperture rings for smooth transitions and “fade to black” shots.

This brings us to the actual EOS, electronic optical system, firmware in the Canon lenses. Most 50 year old lenses do not communicate with the camera, so I fail to see your point. Why bring it up?

Canon first introduced Dual Pixel AF image sensors around 2009. I do not know the technical details behind the necessary changes to the lenses, but Canon released updated versions of their entire L series lineup of lenses.

On the mainstream consumer oriented side, Canon released STM zooms that were specifically designed to take advantage of the Movie Servo AF features that were made available by the use of the Dual Pixel AF image sensors.

The STM lenses were much quieter, so less noise was picked up by the built-in microphones. Their apertures made smooth transitions from one setting to the next, instead of “jumping” to the next setting like so many of the USM lenses would do.

BTW; it must be pointed out that Canon support for most of the older lenses ended long ago.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Waddizzle — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 09:38:54 GMT

One final difference that needs to be pointed out. There is a major difference between lenses created for film cameras and today’s “digital lenses” created for digital cameras.

The biggest difference has to do with the anti-reflective lens coatings on the internal lens elements. Unlike film, a digital image sensor can reflect light back up and into the lens body. This reflected light often results in “ghosting” or cloudy looking smears in the captured images.

Digital cameras were slowly introduced across multiple brands over a multi-year period centered around the year 2000, more or less. Canon released digital versions of many of their lenses that did not already have anti-reflective coatings on the internal elements.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

DeadeyeJohnny — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:42:21 GMT

Thanks for your input Wadizzle, however I ask that this thread should be reserved for users to list lenses that are not compatible with the R5C's video mode.

I didn't start this thread to discuss the limitations behind Canon EF support or debate why you and one other individual on this forum think its "okay" for Canon to drop support for legacy glass. I get why from a economic perspective, but there are some truly unique and amazing legacy EF lenses that have wonderful characteristics for filmmakers and photographers alike (despite today's higher res sensors) so I'll still stubbornly debate why their older glass should at LEAST be recognized by the camera and not have their use blocked entirely (if I want to deal with a loud, grinding AF motor that should be my choice as the individual who paid for the lens and wants to use it, just because there's something newer out, doesn't mean its the tool I want to use -but we can continue that discussion on another thread if you'd like to.

Having said all that, this thread is to help other R5C users avoid making an uninformed lens purchase, or to help owners of older EF glass know to stay away from the R5C unless they're willing to liquidate their certain lenses.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Waddizzle — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:17:33 GMT

“. Thanks for your input Wadizzle, however I ask that this thread should be reserved for users to list lenses that are not compatible with the R5C's video mode. “

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Is the glass half empty or is the glass half full? If you are given a list of compatible lenses, then it is probably safe to assume that any lens that is not on the list is probably not fully compatible. I am going to confidently say that the list of lenses that you seek does not exist. As has already been pointed out to you, Canon does not document or claim compatibility with third party gear.

If you wish to know if your third party lenses are compatible, then I suggest that you contact the third party lens manufacturers. Let them explain whether their lenses are fully compatible. And if not, then why not.

I would expect them to claim full compatibility, BTW. Since you have not answered my questions, I will adhere to your request and exit this thread.

Have a nice day.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

deebatman316 — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 13:46:14 GMT

As @Waddizzle pointed out. Older lenses lack the necessary hardware. To be fully compatible with Movie Servo AF. Older AFD (Arc Form Drive), Micro Motor & Micro Motor USM lenses. Lack support for it because cameras at the time could NOT record video. Also Arc Form Drive lenses work differently when it comes to AF and Aperture control. The way those lenses work is. The camera focuses the lens then stops down to the selected aperture. The FPS on an SLR, DSLR or mirrorless camera is only about 3-4 fps in Servo AF. Due to the design of the lens. Newer lenses focus and stop down the aperture simultaneously. Also these early lenses are classified as F/8 lenses when it comes to DPAF. Even though the apertures are wider than F/8. Only certain AF points can be used. Canon discontinued new lens designs with AFD in 1992. AFD was Canon's first AF motor in 1987. It was also the shortest lived. With the advent of Micro Motor released in 1993. Existing lenses with AFD would be continue to be manufactured.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

TimothyKen — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 15:17:37 GMT

Man, I wish I knew this sooner! My timing is terrible I just sold both my Sony A7Sii's before the A7Cii announcement and I bought 2x R5C's only to discover some of my lenses won't work (I have the Canon 17-35mm, 24-105 mark i and a Tamron 90mm G2 that sort of works with some trickery! Yes, I know the last one is Tamron's firmware but) I did a deep dive on the Canon Facebook groups before finding this forum and it seems that lenses that don't work on the R5C often work fine on the C70 which has the same menu system, as well as the R5 R6R6ii and R3 so it seems like an oversight and not a physical or technical limitation as some people speculated above.

I agree with OP, Canon's own website is misleading and makes you feel like ALL your lenses are going to work as normal with the EF adapters regardless of whether you're in photo or video mode and it's extra annoying that it seems to only be the R5C that has this issue because all the other R bodies communicate fine. If there's no fix coming I might try return my R5C's before the return window closes and pick up something else...

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Jsilj — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 08:18:44 GMT

Waddizzle brings up a good point generally speaking on the chip kicking back more light than emulsion and is a consideration when dealing with older lenses but older lenses do have a unique look and are constantly being rehoused for use and not just for budget reasons. That however is a choice for the photographer or the cinematographer. To Waddizle other points auto iris and auto focus regarding sound and technical short falls, they really are not issues. For one the iris and auto focus aren't that loud even on the older lenses. Iris also rarely changes in shot. Every once in a while there will be an iris pull if you are going from interior to exterior but generally speaking that's it and it's rare you would do that in a oner. Most of the time its on a cut. So you show me an interior or exterior that can't be shot without an iris pull and I'll show you some one who can't light. To the auto focus on EOS cinema cameras again not really an issue. You are in usually one of 2 scenarios. 1 you are doing live or ENG broadcast stuff in which case you are pulling focus yourself by eye. I hate that. Or 2 you are in a scripted usually narrative environment in which case you have a camera assistant who pulls focus for you on a fallow focus. Now this is tough for a focus puller on these style lenses because the barrel is small and the throw is only about 2 inches from minimum to infinity. This is the biggest and most important difference between cinema lenses and photo lenses, a big barrel with lots of throw so the focus puller can nail it. But this is the problem with all photo lenses, my 17-35 and my IS3 70-200 which works fine with the adapter. What ever reason Canon had for not allowing the 17-35 compatibility in just video mode it is unlikely it had anything to do with auto focus or auto iris and probably didn't have anything to do with the sensor kicking back light either. Canon has a half ways decent video/cinema line, like the C300, above and beyond the R5C and they know how these tools get used.

To Deadeye Jonny's point I agree a list of compatible lenses or non compatible lenses should be handed out with the camera. As of now I only see compatible with EF lenses in literature which there is at least one that is not. I did try and find a list after I put on my 17-35 but on dice and it definitely wasn't in the literature with the camera.

New to the forum I guess we let everyone know what cameras we have.

AE1 Program, Eos 3, R5C a lot of lenses EF mount, FD mount and PL mount.

Retiring: 7D

Retired: XTi

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

shadowsports — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:15:04 GMT

For informational purposes. This is a list of EF lenses that support 12 shots/sec. continuous shooting in [High-speed continuous shooting plus] drive mode. I'm still looking for a list of lenses listed as compatible with video mode specifically. I think it is possible that no such list exists.

Also note that many firmware releases also include a list of lenses added by release. Many are cinema specific lenses.

EF24mm f/2.8 IS USM
EF28mm f/2.8 IS USM
EF35mm f/1.4L II USM
EF35mm f/2 IS USM
EF40mm f/2.8 STM
EF50mm f/1.8 STM
EF85mm f/1.4L IS USM
EF100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
EF300mm f/2.8L IS II USM
EF400mm f/2.8L IS II USM
EF400mm f/2.8L IS III USM
EF400mm f/4 DO IS II USM
EF500mm f/4L IS II USM
EF600mm f/4L IS II USM
EF600mm f/4L IS III USM
EF8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM
EF11-24mm f/4L USM
EF16-35mm f/2.8L III USM
EF16-35mm f/4L IS USM
EF24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
EF24-70mm f/4L IS USM
EF24-105mm f/4L IS II USM
EF24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS III USM
EF70-200mm f/4L IS II USM
EF70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM
EF70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM
EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM
EF200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X
EF-S24mm f/2.8 STM
EF-S35mm f/2.8 Macro IS STM
EF-S10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-S18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-S18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
EF-S18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
EF-S18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-S55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:44:27 GMT

“ To Deadeye Jonny's point I agree a list of compatible lenses or non compatible lenses should be handed out with the camera. “

Try reading the camera’s User Guide. There is a list of compatible Canon EF lenses in the manuals for the R5c R6, and every other R series body. The lists are identical.

His complaint is that there should be list of lenses that are NOT compatible, too.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

shadowsports — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:54:18 GMT

Greetings,

R5 C Advanced User Guide - Video Edition

This is the video specific manual released in June 2023 with firmware version 1.0.4.1. Note that v1.0.5.1 was released a week later. It corrected the inclusion of pixel shift in the menu's (which the R5 C is not capable of)

See page 240 for a list of compatible lenses. Only Canon lenses are listed. Interpretation can be tricky. Obviously any lens released after this was published will not be included.

I also noted that the USA site (as of today) does not have a download for the photo edition and video edition manuals. Earlier this week the downloads for the R5 C were broken and missing from the site. Its been restored, but might be missing these downloads. Another possibility firmware v1.0.6.1 is scheduled to be released in the next 3 weeks (hopefully by mid December) so, new photo and video user guides may be in the works. Canon has been good about updating their documentation as new features have been added to the R5 C.

eosr5c-aug5-video-en.pdf (c-wss.com)

Let me reach out to some resources and see if something official exists 😎

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 13:48:42 GMT

“ See page 240 for a list of compatible lenses. Only Canon lenses are listed. Interpretation can be tricky. Obviously any lens released after this was published will not be included. “

I applaud your efforts. Nice job..

Only Canon lenses are listed because only Canon lenses are supported by Canon. Third party lenses are supported by the third party lens manufacturer, not Canon.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

sridharcanon — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:01:06 GMT

I understand they are old lens. However, there are people that have spent more than 2grand on these lens. The very idea is for these lens to last a lifetime, actually multiple lifetimes when taken proper care. Canon should either stop advertising that one can keep shooting with ef lens and their new mirrorless if they can't support it, or actually support them. The 85mm f1.2 mkII was a popular lens of its time and even now. The lens was ahead of its time in many ways. Now it doesn't work on R5C in video mode. While it works in photo mode. What does this show? Canon and their cripple hammer all over again.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

rs-eos — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:44:35 GMT

Canon, or any other company that would make lenses, never made any guarantees that such lenses could be used for every possible scenario for one's entire lifetime.

Note also that there are dedicated video lenses that would do much better. i.e. lenses with very little or no focus breathing. Lenses rated in T-stops rather than f-stops to ensure same exposure when swapping lenses. Lenses with the same barrel diameter to also make swapping easier. And gearing to allow for pulling focus. You don't find these features on lenses originally designed for taking photos.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

DeadeyeJohnny — Mon, 04 Nov 2024 14:50:54 GMT

THIS. Exactly. They ought to stop advertising it.

This topic, even now, over a year later, after numerous firmware updates and new product launches, is still annoying to encounter. I still keep seeing new posts online from new R5C users who just got the "Attached lens will not work" message for the first time, and they're caught off guard because not enough people are shedding light on this and warning potential customers.

If you Google "R5 C lens compatibility" you still encounter Canon hosted landing pages that boast RF-EF (Photo) Lens compatibility, "The RF mount remains compatible with Canon EF Cinema and photo lenses, thanks to a selection of Canon EF-EOS R mount adapters. When shooting video, achieve superb shallow depth of field in brightly lit environments, through using the Canon drop-in filter mount adapter with a variable ND".

The R5 C is indeed a "cinema" camera, and I agree with replies from Canon White Knights who say that we "cinema" users should be focused on using "cinema" glass, and not to expect vintage EF lenses to work on modern tech, up to a point. The part of me (and other video users) that doesn't agree with you guys, is the side that comes back with facts:

This is priced as an entry level Cinema camera, it's not marketed as, nor is it priced as a C700/C500 or an Alexa/RED, etc... Entry level users aren't going to have budgets for "proper" cinema glass, and Canon knows that, it's why they market this camera as a "hybrid" camera and promote it with Youtubers and independent filmmakers.
Canon still advertises the use of EF glass "without compromise", with the use of their RF adapters
Many Cinematographers and Videographers don't like Focus by Wire Lenses because if you have to manually focus, you can't feel the lens, so they (we) seek out older EF lenses that don't have FBW designs because it's hard to pull focus when you have no haptic feedback on your focus ring.
Many Cinematographers and Videographers also really enjoy using the Drop in Filter adapter, which is deigned for use with EF lenses
Lastly, I know photographers really like the clinical sharpness and CA/SA free look of the new RF lenses, but for video, older lenses with flaws are actually something we now seek, because it's visually more interesting to have a lens that has busy bokeh, flares and a lack of sharpness because talent these days, don't appreciate seeing every pore and wrinkle super crisp in 4k (or 8k!) and we can't easily retouch skin, like photographers can.

To the White Knights who will have a field day that I'm still complaining about this, just consider this, it's 100% not, just a hardware limitation in old glass, because other Cinema camera users are using many of the previously mentioned lenses without issue on the C70/C300/C500/C700 with/without AF, with/without IS turned on/off so this issue seems to only affect R5C users, which points more towards a firmware issue rather than a hardware one. If it was an issue only in the 8k raw mode, then I would say "yeah, maybe it's a power issue" but since it's happening only on the Video menu, and inconsistently with certain lenses, it tells me it's a "cripply hammer" ommission that can be fixed with a firmware update.

(FYI, I have also seen some complaints from R6 users as well, that certain EF L series lenses aren't working for them either with the Canon EF-RF adapters)

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

drlee — Sun, 24 Nov 2024 04:19:10 GMT

Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L USM Wide Angle lens is not working with the R5C in video mode. Firmware version listed on camera is 1.0.8.1

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

sridharcanon — Sun, 24 Nov 2024 05:20:33 GMT

I disagree Sir. When they market it as something that can use thousands of readily available EF lens they should stand up to it. Marketing is a guarantee even if they have a small asterisk somewhere. I know there are other lens available for video. But if I am going to buy a new lens and camera why the hell canon then. Sony has much better video options. I want to buy canon because I want to be able to use the lens I already have. The thousands of dollars worth of lens I already have. If I have to revamp entire kit there is really no incentive to stick to canon.

Re: R5C Canon EF lenses that don't work in video mode

shadowsports — Mon, 25 Nov 2024 04:07:03 GMT

@drlee wrote:

Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L USM Wide Angle lens is not working with the R5C in video mode. Firmware version listed on camera is 1.0.8.1

Greetings,

This lens was released in 1991. 33 yr old lens. I'd contact Canon support. There may be a physical limitation. Motor type, communication protocols, etc.

The USM II was released in 2007.