topic Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras in EF & RF Lenses

Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

thatlem — Tue, 27 Dec 2022 13:38:56 GMT

Old shutterbug wants to return

I used to be an avid photographer in the pre-digital age, using a Canon AE-1. I have a couple of autofocus lenses, including a 300 telephoto lens, and am wondering if they would still be useable for the current line of digital cameras, or if I'm going to have to start from scratch. If so, are there particular camera's that you could suggest, or is it a matter of a particular mount.

Thanks

Todd

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

Tronhard — Tue, 27 Dec 2022 17:03:14 GMT

Hi Todd and welcome to the forum:

We have similar roots, I started off with Canon A-1 and Nikon F3 cameras, back around 1980, but have been shooting digital now for over two decades.

To help you, it will be useful to clarify a few points.
1. What lenses exactly do you have, as specific as possible please to get an idea of the age of them?
It is likely that to get the most from a new camera body, you may have to get more modern glass. That said, there are a few classics still out there and if budget is limited it will be useful to know what we might be able to re-use.
2. Do you have a particular budget in mind for the camera body and any lenses?
An actual number is very useful.
3. What subjects do you want to shoot?
Or alternatively, what focal ranges do you need?
4. What do you want to produce?
The investment for producing find, print images is likely to be different for simply creating for social media or a digital display device like a TV or monitor.
5. What are you prepared to carry?
As we get older, or have any physical limitations, lighter more compact gear can be a necessity.

As an overall observation, you have come back to photography at a time of major change. Gone are the DSLRs that use an optical viewfinder and the flip-up mirror to expose the recording surface of the film or sensor. Now, we are in the age of the Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera (MILC) that generates an image directly read from the camera sensor and displays it on a tiny screen in the Electronic Viewfinder (EVF).

This has several advantages:
1. Camera bodies (but not necessarily lenses) are now significantly smaller and lighter than their DSLR predecessors
2. What you see through the EVF is a fairly exact representation of what will be recorded, including exposure and depth of field, giving you much more ability to get the image right first time.

So, much has changed, even over the last five years or so for Canon cameras. It's an exciting time to return to photography!

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

johnrmoyer — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:30:18 GMT

I hope this might be helpful.

I use a 45 year old Minolta lens from a film camera on my EOS R5 body, but it is manual focus and manual aperture. I use an Urth brand (about $40) to connect the lens. If the lens is EF mount, then the Canon EF-RF adapter ($99) might work, but depending upon the age of the lens, auto focus might need to be turned off. Others have adapted Canon FD mount lenses to Canon R series cameras. The newer electronic viewfinders have focus aids for manual focus such as marking in red the edges that are in focus.

All of my older Canon lenses work better on the new mirrorless body than they did on the body that I originally bought them for.

It may be necessary to stop down the old lens to avoid artifacts like color fringing.

I think it would be worth the price of an adapter to try the old familiar lens on a new mirrorless body. That is fun for me, but not for others. The free Canon DPP software will develop the raw images and a digital unsharp mask is much easier than using an enlarger. If the lens is new enough for DPP to retrieve information about the lens, then the digital lens optimizer in DPP can correct some color fringing and diffraction blur. If you were to use the 300mm lens with a EOS R10 or EOS R7 crop sensor, then only the center portion of the lens would be used which is usually the best part.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 15:38:35 GMT

"I used to be an avid photographer in the pre-digital age, using a Canon AE-1. I have a couple of autofocus lenses, including a 300 telephoto lens, and am wondering if they would still be useable for the current line of digital cameras,..."

First, I know of no AF lens for an AE1 Program film camera. Second, without knowing the exact model of lens or lenses you are asking about no one here can give you a true or meaningful answer. But generally if the lens or lenses are from the AE1 era, there is no doubt that any current lens will be better. And, that isn't just a bit better but a whole lot better. So do you want to spend the coin for a modern DSLR or R series camera and shackle it with inferior lenses?

"...I'm going to have to start from scratch."

You probably already know the answer. Don't you?

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

johnrmoyer — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:51:47 GMT

My 45 year old Minolta 50mm lens is better than my newer Canon EF 50mm F/1.8 STM

Newer is not always better.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

johnrmoyer — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 16:57:59 GMT

Is this your lens? https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/nfd226.html New FD300mm f/2.8L

Or, maybe this one? https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4451020

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 17:01:46 GMT

I have a Minolta srt 201 with 50mm Rokinon lens and I agree it is a nice combo. But it is certainly not in league with any current Canon DSLR lens or R series lens. You must have gotten a crappy copy of the ef 50mm f1.8.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

johnrmoyer — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 17:28:57 GMT

https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2021Jul17_birds_and_cats/2021jul08_distillery_IMG_2280cv.html

https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2021Jul17_birds_and_cats/2021jul08_Lexington_IMG_2284cv.html

https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2022Jun26_birds_and_cats/2022jun17_wildflower_IMG_9568cRL.html

https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2021Jun06_birds_and_cats/2021jun01_rudbeckia_IMG_1511cv.html

https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2021Jun06_birds_and_cats/2021jun05_storm_IMG_1702cv.html

There were storm clouds in Norman, Oklahoma, United States on June 5, 2021. I made this image with a nearly 45 year old vintage MC ROKKOR-X PG 1:1.4 f=50mm lens.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

Tronhard — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 18:01:48 GMT

Generally speaking, I have to agree with Ernie that using old SLR lenses on modern cameras will not do those cameras justice. If you decide to invest in a new camera body, you are best off to get lenses that are designed for that technology, as old lenses will demand you lose a lot of the benefits of the new technology, such as fast and accurate autofocus and eye tracking.

You have the advantage of starting off with a relatively clean sheet, by which I mean no slightly old lenses designed for DSLRs that you might consider too valuable to give up.
Honestly, if you are considering returning to photography, and can afford to, I would go with one of the R-series bodies and RF lenses. The question would be what of the range is best for you, and that is why I asked the questions I posed.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

ebiggs1 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 19:27:45 GMT

Nice to see you post. Beginning to worry about you. You hit the nail on the head about old tech on new. Fun to play with the old stuff but not as a main purpose lens. Best is to start fresh.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

amfoto1 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 19:47:09 GMT

@thatlem wrote:
Old shutterbug wants to return
I used to be an avid photographer in the pre-digital age, using a Canon AE-1. I have a couple of autofocus lenses, including a 300 telephoto lens, and am wondering if they would still be useable for the current line of digital cameras, or if I'm going to have to start from scratch. If so, are there particular camera's that you could suggest, or is it a matter of a particular mount.
Thanks
Todd

Hi Todd,

First of all, your AE-1 uses an "FD/FL" bayonet mount that is incompatible with any modern camera. The lenses cannot be directly attached to anything being made today, including Canon's own modern cameras. However, see below... there is still hope.

Second, there was exactly one FD lens with autofocus, a "New FD" 35-70mm zoom that had it's own, built-in focusing system that makes it a rather odd looking lens. Did you mean you have "a couple of manual focus lenses" that you used on your AE-1? Or, do you mean you have some autofocus lenses in some other camera mount? As some other responses have suggested, we could give you better advice if we knew exactly what lenses you are hoping to continue using on the new camera.

In many cases it is possible to adapt vintage lenses for use on modern cameras. There are some limitations, though. In particular, the old Canon FD/FL mount is one of the more limited. It is difficult or impossible to adapt those lenses onto the modern EF/EF-S mount used on today's Canon DSLRs. There are adapters sold for this purpose, but I don't recommend them. The results are poor because they have to use optical elements that spoil the image quality of the lenses. The reason for this is what's called the flange focus distance... the distance from the lens mount to the film in the AE-1 versus the distance from the modern EF mount to the image sensor. Because the modern camera uses slightly longer distance, there is no room to fit an adapter.

With your interest in adapting and using vintage FD or FL lenses, I would NOT recommend any of the Canon DSLRs.

The solution is to adapt the FD/FL lenses to Canon cameras that use one of the two current Canon mirrorless camera mounts: the older EF-M or the newer RF mount.

The Canon EOS M-series cameras use the EF-M mount with a very short flange to sensor distance, which leaves plenty of room to adapt FD lenses without any need for optical "correction". Simple and inexpensive Canon FD to Canon EF-M (or "EOS M") adapters are widely available from third party manufacturers. For example, here are what B&H Photo in NY offers: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Lens-Adapters/ci/3420/N/4077634486?filters=fct_camera-body-mount_1595%3Acanon-eos-m%2Cfct_lens-mount_1596%3Acanon-fd

The Canon EOS M system has been around for nine or ten years. In the US there are currently two EOS M series cameras being sold and seven Canon lenses made for this system. In addition, there are seven third party auto focus lenses in EF-M mount (three Sigma, four Viltrox). There also are a large number of third party manual focus/manual aperture lenses offered in EF-M mount.

The two currently available M-series cameras are the Canon EOS M50 Mark II, which has an electronic viewfinder, and the EOS M200 which does not have a viewfinder. Earlier this year another model, the EOS M6 Mark II, was discontinued. It also didn't have a viewfinder, but a separately sold, optional viewfinder was available for it (EVF-DC2).

All the EOS M-series cameras have been and are APS-C format. This means their digital sensor is smaller than the image area your AE-1 made on film. Where that "full frame" image was approx. 24x36mm, APS-C are approx. 13x22mm. As a result, the focal lengths you're accustomed to on your AE-1 will "act 1.6X longer" on these cameras. That can be great for some things.. A 50mm f/1.4 becomes a really neat portrait lens, acting like a short telephoto 80mm with a large aperture. Your 300mm lens will act like a more powerful 480mm! Conversely, wide angle lenses are no longer very wide. A 21mm was ultrawide on an AE-1, but is only moderately wide on these cameras, acting approx. like a 35mm lens would on your AE-1. The focal length doesn't change... it just "acts" differently due to the smaller image format.

In addition, while nothing formal has been announced Canon appears to be phasing out the M-series lenses and cameras. Just this year one or two cameras were discontinued. This was expected to eventually happen, once Canon announced their new EOS R-series cameras and RF lenses in 2018. There has been rapid growth of this system, which is expected to eventually replace both the EF/EF-S mount DSLRs and the EF-M mount mirrorless cameras. (Some of the DSLRs and lenses for them have also been discontinued over the last year or so.) There are currently six or seven R-series camera models and thirty Canon RF mount lenses for use on them. There also are a number of simple, affordable adapters that allow your FD/FL lenses to be used on any of the RF-mount cameras: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Lens-Adapters/ci/3420/N/4077634486?filters=fct_camera-body-mount_1595%3Acanon-eos-rf%2Cfct_lens-mount_1596%3Acanon-f

Among the R-series cameras, there are both full frame and APS-C models. The full frame will allow your FD/FL lenses to act the same as they always have on the film cameras, while the APS-C models will cause the lenses to act as described above, "longer" than the focal length you're accustomed to. Right now the R-series cameras available include: original R and RP (the two oldest models, both full frame).... R6, R6 Mark II, R5 and R3 (also all full frame)... and the R7 and R10 (both APS-C format).

In broad terms... you can adapt those old lenses for use on either of these newer Canon systems.

The EOS M-series are APS-C only, a bit limited and will eventually be discontinued, but are the most affordable option. There are current models that can be bought new for under $500. The most expensive option comes with two autofocus lenses (15-45mm and 55-200mm) and costs about $1000. EOS M-series cameras and their lenses are moderately available on the used market.

The EOS R-series are "the future" of Canon, offer both APS-C and full frame models. The least expensive is APS-C that's currently a little under $900 (body only). Older full frame models are right at $1000 and $1500 (both only). Prices of more advanced models go up from there.

When adapting vintage lenses like yours for use on these modern cameras, the lenses will be fully manual function... both focus and aperture control. This is a slower form of shooting. There are some manual focus assist features built into these mirrorless cameras ("focus peaking", magnified image preview, in some cases more). Because there is no electronic connectivity between the camera and lens, the camera doesn't "know" a lens is mounted so it must be set to "shoot without lens".

Because there is no mirror in these cameras and the shutter is normally held open so the sensor can provide a display in the viewfinder (or on the back screen), the image sensor can be exposed and vulnerable to dust when lenses are removed. Some models are designed to close the shutter to protect the sensor during lens changes.

Some camera models have "In body image stabilization" (IBIS), which can be effective to allow hand held shooting at slower shutter speeds. This works with all lenses, including adapted vintage lenses. Many modern lenses for these camera also have optical stabilization, such as Canon's "IS". This can in some cases work in conjunction with IBIS for even better performance,.

Working with vintage lenses will essentially mean fully manual aperture control. As you stop the lens down, the aperture will close down. it will not be held open until the moment of exposure, the way it was on your AE-1. This "dims down" the image. But the mirrorless camera's electronic viewfinder can help with "exposure simulation", which both brightens things up and speeds up setting accurate exposure (features like a histogram preview also can help with precise exposure).

However, with adapted lenses and manual aperture control you won't be limited to manual exposure. It is actually possible to use an aperture priority auto exposure, too. Another neat trick with digital cameras is Auto ISO, an additional form of auto exposure, also may be usable with adapted vintage lenses.

Mirrorless cameras are the secret to breathing new life into literally millions of old lenses. This not only applies to Canon FD/FL mount, but also to almost every other old, mechanical lens mount for film SLRs and rangefinder cameras. However, I agree with some other responses, that you might want to get a modern lens or two to enjoy with whatever camera you choose. You owe it to yourself to see what the new system can do, especially some of the most recent and more advanced models that can automatically focus on a person's or animal's eye, or can track a moving vehicle and maintain focus upon it.

I hope this helps!

***********

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2), EOS M5, some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

Tronhard — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 20:07:11 GMT

Thanks Ernie - much appreciated. Not out of the woods yet. Going under the knife tomorrow morning and hope to cut out the cancer, but only time will tell.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

johnrmoyer — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 20:33:08 GMT

Best wishes

I hope it goes well and you recover quickly

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

thatlem — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 21:34:30 GMT

Wow! Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I feel like a 8-T

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

thatlem — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 21:37:49 GMT

Wow! Thanks everyone. I feel like an 8-Track guy in a digital download world. It appears that starting fresh may be less of a headache and better overall. I just hate our disposable world mentality......

Todd

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

Tronhard — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 21:57:25 GMT

Thank you John for your kind wishes. Fingers crossed!!

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

Tronhard — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:03:57 GMT

If you wanted to continue to shoot with film, you could still use the A-E1 as long as it functions. However, digital is a very different (and much more flexible and capable) environment.
If you have not done so, I would recommend doing some study on how digital cameras work - there are lots of books on the subject from a library, and on You Tube you can find quite a few tutorials as well. There are a few of the many things that digital offers:
Free shots - no more paying for film and processing
You get to see the result immediately and can correct in real time - especially with Mirrorless
ISO that can change from shot to shot, and you have set up to adapt automatically when you set aperture and/or shutter speed.
Much higher dynamic range and resolution
Autofocus using lenses with fast nano-usm motors allow you to almost instantly lock onto and even track objects and people as they move - even tracking the eyes of animals, people, folks wearing goggles or in cars

The list goes on. Doing some study now will help you make the best camera and lens choice, and we are always here to offer our best efforts to assist.

Re: Lenses for Canon AE-1 on Modern Cameras

ebiggs1 — Thu, 29 Dec 2022 15:09:01 GMT

" I just hate our disposable world mentality......"

That's not it at all in this case. The new stuff both cameras and lenses are not just better in every aspect, they are very much better. Somebody, somewhere probably makes an adapter to adapt any lens to any camera. That does not indicate it is a good thing or the right thing to do. I still have my F1n which is in perfect working condition. I have all my FD lenses. I still like to play with them. They still take as good of photos as they ever did. However, there is no way I would ever go back or even want to go back to those times and gear. I have several adapters so I could use some of the old lenses because I have some very expensive FD lenses. Yes, you can get them to work but as a full time replacement for the new lenses, not a chance.