topic Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod? in EF & RF Lenses

Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:22:41 GMT

Hi everybody!

I switched recently from Canon EF 70-300 IS USM II to RF 100-500 L and noticed that when mounted on a tripod my 100-500 unit (looks like) shuts down IS. Just want to know... is it something wrong with my unit or is it just a normal behavior?

I film videos in zoos. My camera stays on a tripod with a ball head.

Usually I pan my camera (R6) tracking an animal (holding it by a grip), when an animal stops I just point my camera on it (my hand is on the camera, holding it lightly because the ball head isn't locked). When an animal starts moving I start panning.

I noticed that when I keep my camera still (with my hand on the grip), I start seeing all these tiny vibrations caused by my hand. Which wasn't the case with EF 70-300.

I tested both lenses at home.

I put them on a tripod. I hit record button, waited for 15 seconds, and then knock the camera lightly with my finger (reeeeally lightly). With 100-500 (on 300mm) I saw these vibrations on a screen. With 70-300 (on 300mm) a image was super steady.

I did another test. I hit record button, pan the camera from right to left, quickly locked the ball head and lightly knock the camera with my finger (reeeeally lightly). Both lenses gave a steady image.

So it looks like 100-500 somehow detects that it's on a tripod and turns IS off after 10 seconds. It makes sense for power saving I suppose, but it makes really hard to film videos with this lens mounted on a ball head

Here's a video to illustrate the problem https://youtu.be/kpjiKrppdyg

Does anyone seeing this or it's something wrong with my unit?

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Tronhard — Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:28:58 GMT

I have a 100-500 unit and it does turn off IS on a tripod. This is becoming true of a lot of lenses these days because so many people leave it on and it continues to vibrate the element, causing its own camera shake.

Did you have IBIS still turned on at this point? Given that the two work together, it might be the case that the IBIS is still working and doing so against you - just like a lens with OIS does on a legacy camera. If you are experimenting, I recommend turning off both type of stabilization and see what happens when your camera is mounted on a tripod.

I am not a videographer, so please excuse my ignorance, but is a ball-head considered the best mounting method for a video camera?

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sat, 06 Aug 2022 23:54:12 GMT

I think it may depend upon the camera body you are using, too. In the DSLRs, it was only !D bodies and certain lenses that would automatically disable IS. I would expect some of that to carry over into the MILC camera line.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Tronhard — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 00:00:24 GMT

To the best of my knowledge, and having the R5 and R6 bodies, along with the L series 24-105 and 100-500, all of these lenses can turn off OIS when the camera is mounted on a tripod, even thought they have separate switches - I suspect that this is to allow IS to be disabled in other situations. The issue is also because of the role that IBIS plays, which was not an issue in DSLRs.

I am hoping a product specialist from Canon will come in on this and give us the benefit of their wisdom, otherwise it will require a fair bit of experimentation.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 02:49:32 GMT

I see your point regarding IBIS. But, I am not sure how much of a correlation there is between disabling IS and using a tripod. The biggest benefit from IS is focusing.. It is easier to focus on something that is not jumping around the frame.

With the DSLRs, it was usually the recent 1D bodies and “Great White” primes that would automatically disable the IS. I think the 70-200mm f/2.8s may have had a firmware exception.

I think this was done so that the Autofocus System could have a more stable “look” at the subject. When I use my Sigma 150-600mm to manually focus on the Moon, I leave the IS turned on because the image is more stable. But, I disable the IS before I take the shot!

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 07:26:34 GMT

I use Canon R6. As far as I know there's no way to turn IBIS off on this camera 😞 At least I didn't find any IBIS related settings in a menu.

There are options related to digital stabilization (which is a software stabilization method) in the menu. I tried to turn it on and off. It didn't make any difference.

A ball head is not the best solution for videography. I use it because I need to be low profile and I'd like to have my gear as light as possible. It's definitely that my tripod and a head are not the best to do the job.

But... I'm surprised that 70-300 IS USM II and 70-200 2.8 L II don't turn off IS units, and they are able to compensate limitations of my gear and produce really stable videos. 100-500 on the other hand gives much better image optically, but video is so shaky and cheap looking 😞

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 11:06:43 GMT

The User Manual contains notes that would seem to contradict the camera/lens combo sensing that it is mounted on a tripod, and disabling IS automatically. Similar language can be found for shooting stills and capturing video..

If the setup can automatically disable IS when mounted on a tripod, then why would the user manual contain this comment?

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 14:25:53 GMT

Of course, the user manual also contains comments that suggest that the R5 is able to detect when it is mounted on a tripod with certain lenses. It still leaves the question wide open of whether or IS is automatically disabled or not with RF lenses. The comment seems directed specifically towards EF lenses.

My gut instinct says the R5 is probably capable of disabling IS with the EF mount primes listed below. The RF lenses seem to use a completely different design strategy when it comes to IS because of IBIS.

I would expect the RF super telephoto primes to be able to sense a tripod is use. Personally, it is a feature that I wish could be disabled. As I noted in another comment, having IS enabled when manual focusing a super telephoto lens on a tripod is very useful.

[EDIT] Note, these screen shots are from the User Guide, revision E. It applies to firmware v1.5.0 or later.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 11:41:42 GMT

I think a good way to test whether or not the camera is able to automatically disable the IS is to try to manually focus the lens using a magnified view on the rear LCD, with and without IS enabled on the lens..

When I use my 150-600mm at 600mm, the difference is significant. With IS disabled, touching the lens creates a minor “earthquake” in magnified view. With IS enabled, the magnified remains steady. Try it!

I am using a RRS BH-55 ball head on a 100mm video tripod, which is how I usually photograph the night sky or the Moon.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 11:44:24 GMT

I use R6 but I think they're pretty similar with R5 in terms of stabilization.

I have a feeling that this behavior comes from a lens and not from a body.

I tried 4 tele-lenses EF 70-300 IS USM version 1, EF 70-300 IS USM version 2, EF 70-200 2.8 version 2, and RF 100-500. First three lenses don't shut down IS when mounted on a tripod. RF 100-500 does.

The weirdest part of it is that... with 100-500 mounted on a tripod ALL stabilizations are disabled. I don't see movements of IS element in the lens, IBIS seems to be turned off as well, and even Digital stabilization doesn't work! As mentioned in a document you posted above Digital stabilization doesn't work when lens IS is off. For me it seems that a lens tells to a body smth like «Hey body, IS is OFF now! And the body turns other stabs OFF».

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 11:49:25 GMT

I'll try it!

I tested it another way though. I just pressed any button and this action leads to a small earthquake in my video on 500mm 🙂

I tried to do the same with my 70-300 IS USM II and video was pretty stable.

Also I tried to complete the same test with 100-500 a bit differently. Before pressing a button I moved the lens chaotically sideways and then locked a head and pressed a button — stable image. 10 sec later pressed a button again — earthquake.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 14:24:06 GMT

Careful. You’re beginning to cross into comparing apples to oranges on multiple fronts.

One, only L series lenses would seem to disable IS with certain DSLR camera bodies. And, it would only happen with “Great White” primes and 1D series camera bodies. The feature was not available with non-L series lenses.

Two, when you are using a R Series body you cannot directly compare behavior with EF lenses to behavior with RF lenses. The IS in the two series of lenses seem to have very different design goals and strategy. EF lenses do not know anything about a camera body having IBIS, while RF lenses seem to be prepared for that scenario.

Lenses do not have much in the way of internal smarts, except for the “Great White” primes. The behavior to disable the IS when using a tripod is built into the camera body firmware, not the lens. If the behavior originated in the lens, then any camera body would exhibit the behavior, which is not the case.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:27:18 GMT

Hmm... Sounds logical.

One thing which bother me. If a R6 body detects a tripod and disables all IS systems (lens, body, digital stab.) why an icon on a screes says «IS is ON»?

It says OFF only if I switch IS off on a lens. If I designed UI I'd make a special icon for this scenario (smth like IS is turned ON but it was automatically turned OFF). They could make it grey or smth. But it's white and is says ON when IS is definitely OFF.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 16:13:48 GMT

@RomanPaulov wrote:
Hmm... Sounds logical.
One thing which bother me. If a R6 body detects a tripod and disables all IS systems (lens, body, digital stab.) why an icon on a screes says «IS is ON»?
It says OFF only if I switch IS off on a lens. If I designed UI I'd make a special icon for this scenario (smth like IS is turned ON but it was automatically turned OFF). They could make it grey or smth. But it's white and is says ON when IS is definitely OFF.

That behavior is what is in one of the notes I posted. When a lens with IS is detected, then the internal menu setting is disabled or removed from the menus. The lens switch overrides the menu settings.

What shooting mode are you using? When and where do you see the “IS” is on icon? Shooting video?

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:21:55 GMT

I've been outside of cell coverage for some time...

I've made a video to illustrate the problem https://youtu.be/kpjiKrppdyg

By „IS“ icon I mean a small icon (a small hand with plus sign) on a screen in the upper left corner.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Waddizzle — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:42:01 GMT

The IS Mode switch on the lens is probably intertwined in this, too.

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:59:57 GMT

Probably...

I noticed that in 1 and 2 mode it acts the same.

In mode 3 I can keep IS running by half-pressing shutter release button. But it's a nightmare cause it's impossible to focusing and panning at the same time 🙂

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Tronhard — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:37:58 GMT

Please forgive my late contribution, as I said early on, I have both the R5 and R6, and the RF100-500. There are four versions of the EF70-300 spanning about 12 years and they vary in their behaviour on a tripod. I have shot a bit with both bodies using the RF100-500 and my experience is that, when used together, the RF 100-500 and body will sense that the camera is on a tripod and turn off all IS. That is becoming more of a feature of modern systems.

My Fuji X-T4, which has IBIS, used with the Tamron 18-300 which is designed for that unit, has OIS: so much like the Canon combo and both will sense the presence of a tripod and turn off - the Tamron doesn't even have a switch option!

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

RomanPaulov — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:31:04 GMT

Thank you for a such valuable information!

I'm thinking to move to R5 or R5C and I was curious if R5 has the same behavior with 100-500.

I contacted Canon SPC to confirm that it's a feature and not a bug.

I have no reasonable explanation why engineers created this tripod-detection mechanism when IS on-off switch exists. It makes so hard to film videos using this lens. Maybe I miss something...

Re: Does RF 100-500 shut down IS when it's mounted on a tripod?

Tronhard — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:44:14 GMT

THere is one thing you could try that I have not, because I am a stills photographer. That is to set the lens OS to mode 2- that is to allow movement horizontally but not vertically. Assumedly you want to be able to stay on the same plane and move around on that, but if you bump the mounted unit, you want IS to compensate the vertical movement.