topic Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses in EF & RF Lenses

Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:26:23 GMT

I have a Rebel T2i that came with EF S lenses - I want to buy a Canon 5d Mark II and am trying to find out if I can use the regular EF lenses used for the mark II on my old Rebel? I know I can't use EF S on the Mark II .I am trying to photograph birds and know I need a super telephoto lens I have the EF S 55-250 but need more - hope since I plan to get the markII that I can get a lens that will work on both cams for now. I have been told that using a super telephoto lens on the mark II or a full frame camera is counter productive .Do you all agree? thanks

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

cicopo — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:11:40 GMT

Yes EF lenses will fit the T2i and NO I don't agrre with the idea that using a super telephoto lens is counter productive on ANY body as long as you realize it needs to be held very steady while shooting or better yet mounted to a tripod. Super tele's can be expensive so may I ask just what lenses you are consirering & I'll also point out that they will provide more reach on the T2i than on a 5D2. You have 18 mpixels available now but when you compare the FF sensor to the 1.6 crop sensor you'll really only have about 40% of it's pixels on target. In the simplest of terms that means when shooting a distant object with the same lens from the same position the comparison between the 2 images will favor the T2i shot because it has many more pixels on target. The full frame 5D2 sensor (after cropping to the same sized final result) will be about the same in size as produced by the old 20D & 30D & a bit smaller than one from a 40D.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:46:54 GMT

Thank you so much! Finally an answer. I have been asking this same question on many question answer sites and always they assume I am asking if I can use film cam lenses with digital cameras. Anyway again thanks - makes sense - I don't know what lenses and would appreciate any advice. I can't spend over $3000 and know that limits me a lot . I would love 400 or more if I can find it. thanks again.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

ScottyP — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:37:45 GMT

Hi Carolyn,

Make sure you are understanding the focal length point Cicopo makes. A crop sensor camera like T2i gives a 1.6x focal length multiplier to every lens. So a 100mm lens on a FF camera like 5D is a 160mm lens on the T2i. That added "oomph" of "free telephoto power" the crop sensor imparts gets you into some nice long focal lengths that would be very expensive to reach by using more powerful glass on a FF camera.

If you want to stay with Canon you can get a 400mm f/5.6 or you could get a 100-400mm zoom. There are cheaper 3rd party options, but low quality telephoto looks just terrible so be careful.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

cicopo — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:04:27 GMT

You have a few good options available so it would be good for us to know what things you want to shoot & how close you may expect to get plus whether you'll be shooting hand held or from a tripod most of the time. Long lenses are heavy, & as such you need good technique to prevent camera shake and unfortunately that part of photography comes from practice & a bit of arm strength. It would also help if you can tell us whether you're primarily after shots of stationary subjects or moving things, either slow movers or fast paced things like running horses, race cars etc.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:02:49 GMT

I use a tripod or a pole most of the time - I try to shoot in good light if possible - i am bad at guessing distances - if you can imagine being on the ground and a nest maybe higher than the highest commercial lamp post you come across I am trying to get an Osprey nest and birds .. and yes often the birds are flying / sometime landing in the nest and etc. If you look at my photss (which I realize you don't have time to do) but those are the shots I recently took with my rebel T2i with the standardEF S 55-250 lens -some hand held / some on tripod.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

cicopo — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:28:19 GMT

Post a link & I'll check your photos (or PM it). You have at least 3 good options in high quality Canon L series lenses and they all fit your budget & get very high marks for birding. The 300 f4 L IS, the 400 f5.6 L (it doesn't have IS) & my favorite the 100-400 L IS. You can also use a 1.4 TC on the 300 L but the AF might struggle a bit.

This shot sounds a bit like what you are trying to get height & distance wise but it was shot at dusk so some detail is a bit poor. 7D & 100-400 L at 400 mm ISO 1600 (this is the full frame)

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:05:52 GMT

Thank you again. Yes that is pretty much exactly what I am tryin gto shoot. I have many (more than you'd care to see) on a flicker site http://www.flickr.com/photos/carolynmue/sets/72157632883096221/ maybe you can just skim over them.. I also have some others on this canon site under my account and my photos ? can send you that link later if you are not able to reach it . which of the lenses you mention do you feel is the best - are they all EF lenses ? Another question do you know if I could use a doubler with the lens I have now? (EF S 55-250) on the Rebel T2i? I really appreciate your help . thank you so much.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:26:23 GMT

Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate the detailed information and explaination regarding the cropped Rebel / etc.

I knew there was something like that but it wasn't really clear to me until I read your and the other contributers answers. It is starting to make some sense .. thanks again

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

ebiggs1 — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 14:33:21 GMT

carolyn,

If I may add a step in your bird photography, I suggest you load Photo Shop Elements, it came free with your camera (?), on your computer and learn how to use it.

Consider these figures before you lay your money down.

The 55-250mm you already have acts like a 88-400mm on your T2i. The addition of a 400mm lens, zoom or prime, for the 5D Mk II is going to show the same size photograph.

A 400mm lens on your T2i will act like a 640mm lens.

One thing I have noticed over the years is most people use a zoom lens at the long end. Otherwise, I mean if you get the 100-400mm zoom, I bet you use the 400mm side way more than the 100mm side. Somethign to consider! That said the 100-400mm zoom is still my choice over the 400mm prime.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:28:22 GMT

Thank you Ebiggs 1, I appreciate and your help to make what the others are saying even clearer So it seems that getting a telephoto lens for the camera I already have would be the more practicle of all the options. Btw do you or anyone know if the canon T2i can accept the little multipliers? I think there may be a 2x and a 4x s available. Thanks also about the photoshop suggestion. I used photoshop many years ago - for some reason started using microsoft piture it 10 . I never really learned to use all there was in photoshop... is there a vast difference between it and the software I use? thanks again - appreciate your advice.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

cicopo — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:37:36 GMT

I'll post some in depth stuff tonight that should help you in several ways but for now I will say I checked all of your photos & I'll make some recommendations on how to get better ones with the lens you have, but I really think the Canon 100-400 L IS is the best choice (price & versatility & IQ) for your needs.

There are teleconverters (multipliers) in both a 1.4 X and 2 X version BUT you'll loose AF with that body / lens combo plus it looks like your images are soft now so they'll be even softer with ANY TC.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

cicopo — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 00:20:57 GMT

Because I don't know how familiar you are with your camera or how you've set it up for the nest se Ii'll use this photo as my start.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carolynmue/8517053559/in/set-72157632883096221/

If you look at it you'll notice that the pole is pretty crisp so your lens seems relatively sharp & the page shows that you're using a nice high shutter speed so camera shake is a non issue. Now if we look at this photo

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carolynmue/8517042777/in/set-72157632883096221/

nothing is that sharp. Is it a heavy crop? I suggest that using that photo as the ideal one to use to try setting your camera to Av mode & selecting f8 so you have some depth of field going for you, but check to see what shutter speed the camera picks (depends on the lighting that day) & adjust the ISO if needed to stay above 1/1000 & better yet if you can get 1/2000 all the better but you don't need more than that. Now for the important part, set the AF to the single center point & using the photo as the example birders try to get the AF point on the eye and when they hava a steady hold on the eye they take the shot. You could however pre focus on the eye & then reframe before the final half presss needed to take the shot. If your camera's AF system is accurate that method produces the best image of the bird, which in this case is an Osprey but the idea is for any bird where you can use the eye as the focal point (plus the same applies for most animals).

Now re birds in flight, you need to set the AF system to AI Servo, not 1 shot, but you can also leave it there for stationary shots (my cameras are almost always set to AI Servo). This allows the AF system to track & predict where a moving target is relative to you as it flies or runs etc. You also might want to try each metering mode when shooting against the sky because the bright sky is leaving the bird underexposed a bit. I run into the same problem shooting model aircraft & make many exposure compensation changes as the light keeps changing throughout the day. EC can be your friend but it may be a bit more difficult to change on a Rebel compared to the bodies with a big wheel on the back. Also switch to Tv mode for flying shots & stay above 1/1000 if you can.

Back to the lens choices. The 400 f5.6 L is lighter than the 100-400 L IS but the IQ from both is so close that the versatility of the zoom makes it the better choice for most people. On a tripod both will be easy to use but hand held you'll need to really work on technique, and although panning takes a bit of practice I find it easier to get a sharp shot while panning than when shooting a stationary object. Expect a learning curve but the IS can be VERY helpful, but you need to remember how to use the mode 1-2 switch. 1 for stationary, 2 for panning side to side BUT off for panning up & down or sideways combined with considerable up / down.

You could also consider one of the current Sigma zooms like the 50-500 OS or 150-500 OS but their AF system isn't as fast as the 100-400 L & they don't hold their resale value very well. The 50-500 OS would be my choice between them but I'd plan on using it on a tripod most of the time.

Hope that helps.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 06:56:57 GMT

THANK YOU You've given me a lot to think about and practice. I have just coied /pasted and printed and plan to go

tomorrow - will try your instructions step by step until it sinks in... again appreciate !!

I ordered the lens you suggested today (100=400)

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

carolyn — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 06:59:51 GMT

PS yes, the second photo you critiqued was a heavy crop - most are - hoping my new lens will help lessen the need to do that as much.

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

ebiggs1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:33:07 GMT

Carolyn ,

Mr. cicopo has made some very important points. And I agree if you have the means, get the 100-400mm Canon zoom over any other. Old Chinese expression, “Buy the best and cry once.”

But a few points I can add are, if you do get a 1.4x or a 2x TC, you lose 1-stop and 2-stops respectively. So a f5-6 becomes a f8 and/or a f11. Another problem besides maybe losing auto focus is with the reduction in f-stops and there is no increase in DOF.

On post processing, there is no equal to full Photo Shop. It is expensive! But Photo Shop Elements, that I believe comes with the 2Ti free, is a good alternative, probably better than any MS software. Post is as important as the shot. Don't let anybody kid you on this.

Ernie

Re: Cam I use a newer EF lens with a Rebel that uses EF S lenses

ebiggs1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:46:43 GMT

Carolyn,

One more point, I forgot to mention is a good rule of thumb is to use the next higher reciprocal of the lens focal length. Otherwise, you are using a 400mm lens, the reciprocal is 1/400, so you should set a shutter speed higher than 1/500. The next closest, higher, shutter speed.

Of course all “rules of thumb” are just guesstimates. But it gives you and idea of where you probably need to be.

I am an avid bird photographer, too, so I know the challenges. One point which, may or may not have been mentioned, is get as close as you can. There is no substitute for being close and a big lens!