topic Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I? in EF & RF Lenses

24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

marco79 — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 20:44:41 GMT

Hello Canon Forum People

here my post to ask an opinion about something that hasn't been mentioned in any review, forum or discussion.

I am a happy owner of a 24-70 F2.8 (mark I) since many years. has been a gr8 companion in combination with the 70-200 F2.8

Although with years i am getting tired to bring both lenses for "not assignment trips" and i though i could use a new 24-105 instead.

question: how better, or worse, is the 24-105 mark II compared with the '10 year's old' 24-70 f2.8 mark I in terms of 1)overall sharpness 2)color rend 3)edge distortion?

I didn't have time to test the 24-105 II properly but i believe that a 2016 lens could/should be equal or even better than a 10 year's old lens, even though the 24-70 was/is top range lens

any thoughts about this will be very much appreciated

regards

Marco

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

RobertTheFat — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 23:56:14 GMT

@marco79 wrote:
Hello Canon Forum People

here my post to ask an opinion about something that hasn't been mentioned in any review, forum or discussion.

I am a happy owner of a 24-70 F2.8 (mark I) since many years. has been a gr8 companion in combination with the 70-200 F2.8

Although with years i am getting tired to bring both lenses for "not assignment trips" and i though i could use a new 24-105 instead.

question: how better, or worse, is the 24-105 mark II compared with the '10 year's old' 24-70 f2.8 mark I in terms of 1)overall sharpness 2)color rend 3)edge distortion?

I didn't have time to test the 24-105 II properly but i believe that a 2016 lens could/should be equal or even better than a 10 year's old lens, even though the 24-70 was/is top range lens

any thoughts about this will be very much appreciated

regards

Marco

Aside from their different zoom ranges, the most conspicuous differences are that the 24-105 has IS and the 24-70 is one stop faster. So as with most such choices, it depends on what your requirements are.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 06:26:45 GMT

"Although with years i am getting tired to bring both lenses ..."

The question is not what the better IQ of either lens is but adding an additional 35mm to one lens is going to eliminate the need for the 70-200mm? In your dreams it will. If your jobs required the use of a 200mm lens, 105mm won't cut it.

Either that or I don't understand your logic. However, to answer your query, the new 24-105mm f4L IS II is a good replacement for you older 24-70mm f2.8L. It will perform better all around.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

marco79 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:57:19 GMT

Hi ebiggs1

thanks for your answer. some clarification:

1) I already own both lenses (24-70 Mark I and 24-105 Mark II) so looking to sell one lens

2) for "no assignmet" trips i believe 105mm are just enough to catch most situations

3) for me in a proper kit the 70-200 is a must, either if is for documentary, theatre or dance shoot

my question:

I would like to know about the overall IQ and sharpness if the 24-105 Mark II is good as 24-70 Mark I or is even better?

thanks

Marco

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

marco79 — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:01:10 GMT

Thanks Robert,

i been studying Photography for many years but in good lens review i see very accurate graphs and charts about sharpness, distortion, etc.

Basically i own already both lenses and i am willing to give one away.

my question is:

is the 24-105 Mark II comparable or even better to he 24-70 Mark I in terms of overall IQ, and sharpness?

thanks

Marco

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

RobertTheFat — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:06:19 GMT

@marco79 wrote:
Thanks Robert,

i been studying Photography for many years but in good lens review i see very accurate graphs and charts about sharpness, distortion, etc.

Basically i own already both lenses and i am willing to give one away.

my question is:

is the 24-105 Mark II comparable or even better to he 24-70 Mark I in terms of overall IQ, and sharpness?

thanks

Marco

Sure it is, but the 24-70 is still one stop faster. How much that matters to you is something you have to decide. I have the 24-70 Mk II and the 24-105 Mk I. I like them both, but use them somewhat differently. Neither is a substitute for the 70-200 in my world. I can't tell you whether it is in any subset of yours.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

Waddizzle — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 23:14:58 GMT

@marco79 wrote:
Hi ebiggs1

thanks for your answer. some clarification:

1) I already own both lenses (24-70 Mark I and 24-105 Mark II) so looking to sell one lens

2) for "no assignmet" trips i believe 105mm are just enough to catch most situations

3) for me in a proper kit the 70-200 is a must, either if is for documentary, theatre or dance shoot

my question:

I would like to know about the overall IQ and sharpness if the 24-105 Mark II is good as 24-70 Mark I or is even better?

thanks

Marco

If you already own both lenses, why are you on the internet asking people which one is better? Get out there, and take some comparison shots. That’s the best way to answer your question. One is faster. One is longer. No one can really tell you which lens is best for you and your circumstances. Experience will answer the question.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

ebiggs1 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 00:41:55 GMT

Nope ... now you confused me even more.

The original 24-70 f2.8L was/is not all that sharp. I mean it is a good lens. I used one for years and years. But the Mk II is lightyears better. I do not own the 24-105mm f4 Mk II but I have played with one. It is darn good, too.

Actually I had the EF 28-70mm f/2.8 USM Lens and I thought it was sharper than its replacement by the 24-70mm f2.8L Mk I. But that's another topic. BTW, there is no such thing as the Mk I. It is just the first version of the 24-70mm.

If you want the best as good as it gets, you want the 24-70mm f2.8L Mk II and the 70-200mm f2.8L Mk II. That way you don't have to wonder if there is anything out there that is better. There is not ! End of story.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

marco79 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:28:05 GMT

Yes Waddizzle, you're right.

I did try it only for 1hr or so the day i received, but couldn't after that and i won't be able till middle november.

DoP: no much difference F2.8 to F4

IQ: for the little test it seems to me they're very similar

Sharpness: that's the major point for me. Is the 24-105 Mark II sharp as the 24-70 Mark I?

work wise the full stop (2 actually) faster of the 24-70 is definitively a loss.... this means compromises with 24-105

I am looking for technical comparition here, mostly about overall IQ and sharpness then yes, i will figured out myself what lens is most suitable for what i do

the 24-70 has been my best bet for many years and i may ended up keeping both lenses

thanks

Marco

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

AllenP — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 06:39:50 GMT

I've seen in several posts folks refer to "...one stop faster." as RobertTheFat did in this discussion. Could someone explain that to me?

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

Waddizzle — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 14:26:10 GMT

@AllenP wrote:
I've seen in several posts folks refer to "...one stop faster." as RobertTheFat did in this discussion. Could someone explain that to me?

Do a web search for articles about “ the exposure triangle “.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:29:02 GMT

""...one stop faster." ... Could someone explain that to me?"

Certainly. A stop is either twice as bright or twice as dim. In other words one stop larger (smaller number) lets twice as much light in the lens/camera. One stop smaller (bigger number) cuts out half of that light. The numbers are ratios. The scale is as follows: f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22.

But wait, there is more. Shutter speeds also have stops. However, the same basic logic applies. 1/100 lets in twice as much light as 1/200, etc.

Get the 'picture'?

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:37:39 GMT

The question was "24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?"

There are several variables to consider. One lens has a longer FL and is one stop slower (let's in half as much light wide open).

Does the longer FL overcome that? The other is one stop faster (lets in twice as much light wide ope). Does that overcome the shorter FL?

There was also a concern with IQ or sharpness. In real world photography I doubt that is a serious issue. It might be with the pixel peeper crowd but certainly not in general use. The newer lens should be sharper, why wouldn't it? It uses current technology.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

amfoto1 — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:23:57 GMT

@marco79
.... how better, or worse, is the 24-105 mark II compared with the '10 year's old' 24-70 f2.8 mark I in terms of 1)overall sharpness 2)color rend 3)edge distortion?

I didn't have time to test the 24-105 II properly but i believe that a 2016 lens could/should be equal or even better than a 10 year's old lens, even though the 24-70 was/is top range lens

Hi Marco,

No, unfortunately the image quality of the newer 24-105mm f/4L II is not equal to that of the older 24-70mm f/2.8L.

If you compare them both at f/4 and the same focal lengths, you will consistently see more chromatic aberration and less sharpness in the 24-105L II. This isn't to say the 24-105L II is "bad".... it's a convenient range of focal lengths on a full frame camera and has image stabization, as well as pretty darned good image quality. There really isn't a lot of difference in IQ between the original 24-105 and the 24-105 II. Most of the "upgrade" to the newer lens was much improved IS and possibly more durable build (we'll have to see, over time, if it holds up better than the original).

But neither 24-105 has as good image quality as the older 24-70/2.8L, which is excellent. (Or, for that matter, the newer... the 24-70/2.8L "II" which is even sharper.... some refer to it as "a bag full of primes" zoom.) This assumes that your particular 24-70mm is in good shape. The guys at Lensrentals noted that they can get out of adjustment over time, with use and wear (of course, their rental lenses spend a lot of time bouncing around in the back of a UPS truck and probably aren't used by renters nearly as carefully as you've used yours).

If your goal is to reduce size and weight, you might want to check out the Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM... It's smaller, lighter AND less expensive than any of the other 24-70s or 24-105s. Plus it's got IS. Plus it's incredibly close focusing (can do near macro 0.70X magnification.... rouughly 3X the magnification possible with any of the others), might even allow you to leave your macro lens at home (if you carry one).

The 24-70/4L IS appears to have IQ that's somewhere in between that of the 24-70/2.8s and the 24-105s. At most focal lengths they share, it's nearly as good as the f/2.8 versions. The 24-70/4L IS' weakest performance is wide open at 50mm. So, if you're 24-70/2.8 is in "good tune" and producing shots up to its full potential, with 24-70/4L IS you might see a slight compromise in IQ, but reduce size, weight and cost considerably.... as well as gain IS and exceptional close focusing abilities.

I'd recommend checking the lenses out side by side at The-Digital-Picture website. The Image Quality comparison tool there lets you see for yourself how highly magnified test shots done with each lens look next to each other, at various focal lengths and apertures. (Caution.... Bryan has done a lot of recent tests using a 5DS-R, which is extremely demanding of lenses... Unless that's the camera you're using, it might be better to switch to vewiing his test shots done with a less extreme camera, such as the 1DsIII that he's used with most lenses).

P.S. You mention also carrying a 70-200mm f/2.8L.... though not which one. Here again, you could save some size and weight, if you could live with a smaller aperture version. The 70-200mm f/4L... both the non-IS and IS version... are about 2/3 the size and weight of the f/2.8s.... and have excellent (new f/4 IS "II" version coming soon... looks very good, but remains to be seen).

I use a 70-200mm a lot.... enough so that I bought an f/4 IS version as backup for my f/2.8 IS version. Now I actually find myself grabbing and using the f/4 version more often! In fact, if size/weight are your biggest concern now, there's greater difference, more potential for some reduction with the 70-200s, than with tthe 24-70s or 24-105s.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

Waddizzle — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:24:56 GMT

“ ... There really isn't a lot of difference in IQ between the original 24-105 and the II. Most of the "upgrade" to the newer lens was much improved IS and possibly more durable build (we'll have to see, over time, if it holds up better than the original). ...”

————————————————————————-

I would not be surprised if the newer lens’ firmware can be updated by the newer bodies.

Re: 24-105 Mark II vs 24-70 F2.8L Mark I?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:18:46 GMT

"...you will consistently see more chromatic aberration..."

I don't generally agree with that in any real use of a lens like the f4 zoom. However, even if so any current post editor will have no trouble removing it. I never see it as I have a preset in LR upon import that does lens correction. A simple task everybody should get into the habit of doing.