topic Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender in EF & RF Lenses

Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

davikokar — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 19:04:20 GMT

Do you use the 100-400mm in combination with 2x extender ? What do you think about this combination ?

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

TCampbell — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 19:28:31 GMT

No.

It is technically compatible, but not very practical. A 2x extender doubles the focal length AND the focal ratio. An f/5.6 lens becomes an f/11 lens and no camera can auto-focus at f/11. Very few cameras can auto-focus at f/8.

Typically only an f/2.8 lens is appropriate for use with a 2x adapter (because they become f/5.6 lenses when they're on the adapter.)

The manual (which you can download) contains the list of compatible lenses.

See: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/8/0300004658/01/extender-ef-2x-iii-en.pdf

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

Skirball — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 19:38:34 GMT

I know it's tempting to go for an impressive 200 - 800 mm focal length setup, but if it didn't have its drawbacks everyone would own this combination (and Canon wouldn't be able to sell the new 200 - 400 1.4X for $10,000+).

Although they increase your focal length, extenders also 1) cut out the amount of light, 2) compromise image quality. The first point has the added complication that it can affect autofocus. All cameras have a minimum aperture size that it needs for autofocus to work, most are around f5.6, some high-end cameras go up to f8. The 2X will move up the largest aperture size of the lens two stops. So the 100 – 400 f4 – 5.6 will become a f8 – f11. Even high end cameras will probably struggle once zoomed much past 100mm.

You’re most likely not going to have auto-focus, so how do you feel about using manual focus only? The 2X will also compromise sharpness a bit, so you’ll probably have to stop down the lens quite a bit to get a result you like (plus the extender cuts out 2 stops). It’s fine if you have enough light, but it’s going to cut into your flexibility.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

ebiggs1 — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:57:31 GMT

I use the 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 a lot. It isn't that sharp of lens in the first place to cripple it in any way. So a tele adapter is out of the question, even the 1.4x.

The best it gets is to use it with a Canon7D and take advantage of the 1.6 crop factor.

Oh, and BTW, the 100-400mm is a f4.5 not a f4. Unless Canon has come out with a later version.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

MickvK — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:52:40 GMT

Hi, I have just purchased a Canon EF 2X III teleconverter, it's between a Canon 70D and a Canon EF 100-400mm IS-L USM lens. The TTL auto focus does not function, BUT, with the ground breaking dual pixel CMOS in the Canon 70D, I can use the lens's auto focus in LIVE VIEW. The length and weight of this combination means no hand held, tripod only. I use a stylus, as for an iPad etc, to chose the focus point on the LCD screen in live view, and the new auto focus system instantly focuses on that spot. I am getting results at 800mm (1280mm with 1.6 crop factor of the smaller sensor), that are, I think sharper than hand held at 400mm (640mm) with the lens only.

So, to those blogs I read that say the Canon teleconverter stops auto focus, look again with a 70D in live view!!

When the high end cameras recieve this new dual pixel sensor technology, the teleconverters will be very useful.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

ebiggs1 — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:40:20 GMT

" I am getting results at 800mm (1280mm with 1.6 crop factor of the smaller sensor), that are, I think sharper than hand held at 400mm (640mm) with the lens only."

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

ParadisePhill — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:11:40 GMT

MickvK,

Now that you have had the combination of the EF 2X III teleconverter with the EF 100-400mm IS-L USM lens and 70D for more than a year do you still think it was worth it?

In particular, if you tripod mount the lens both with and without the teleconverter, and compare the quality of the photos blown up to full pixel resolution, how good does it look. Is it still worth the investment to get the extender considering that you will need to bump up the ISO to get the same shutter speed (adding noise) or reduce the shutter speed to keep the same ISO (adding the potential for image movement).

I currently have the combo of EF 100-400mm IS-L USM lens and 70D that I use for wildlife photography (with a tripod). Adding a 2X teleconverter is tempting but if it reduces the quality to what I'd get hand holding the lens then its a poor investment for me.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

ParadisePhill — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:58:53 GMT

I ended up buying both the 2x extender and new 100-400 lens and it turned out to be a good decision. In short, the image stabilization on the mark II lens is indeed amazing even with the 2x extender and well worth the investment.

I had read numerous online posts from "experts" that an extender will make the images look soft and that you will lose contrast. "They" also said you could get just as good a result by not using the extender and blowing up your images by 2x. I decided to put this to the test. I want to be able to take wildlife headshots that show whisker detail from far enough away that there's no danger of getting my face ripped off or getting gored. So I set up a resolution test chart 75 yards away in a somewhat open forest that had dappled light, probably the worst conditions that I could expect to be successful in. I then took multiple photos and varied the following: Old and new lens, no extender, 1.4x and 2x extenders, f stop, ISO, tripod vs. hand held. Shutter speeds were slow at reasonable ISO settings due to the light and gave a good test of real world conditions. I found the following:

1.Mounted on a secure tripod and without an extender both the old and new lens gave approximately the same maximum resolution (about 12 lines per inch) at 75 yards, the resolution limit is driven by the number of pixels in the camera, not the lens.

2. When using the extender, even when mounted on a tripod, you will need to set the shutter to high speed continuous and take 4 to 6 images so that you get at least a couple good images. Breezes and shutter vibration will cause some movement during exposure.

3. The 2x extender was more useful than the 1.4x extender. With a 1.4x extender and the lens set to 400mm, I could resolve about 20 lines per inch, with the 2x I could get up to about 25 lines per inch when mounted on a tripod.

4. The real difference between the two lenses is the image stabilization. A hand held shot with the old lens at 800mm was laughable; it was just one big blur. The image stabilization with the new lens makes hand held shots possible if you are leaning against a support with your elbows tucked in and control your breathing (or rest the lens on support). You will need to set the shutter to high speed continuous and take 5 to 10 images. I got about 50% that looked at least OK and about 20% that were really good even with shutter speed under 1/100.

Here is a jpg copy of a test shot I did handheld. It’s lost some resolution in the jpg conversion process but you can get the idea. This was the best of a half dozen images and was shot at 1/50, f11, ISO 320. The target is 20” across so you can think of it as a head shot of a mountain goat or grizzly bear. It’s good enough for printing to 8x10 or smaller or for use on the web. I found the best tradeoff of ISO, f stop, and shutter speed at 800mm to be ISO 320, f11, and as fast a speed as lighting will permit. That was true whether handheld or using a tripod.

As you can tell from the resolution chart, I won't be getting any bear photos showing whisker detail any time soon, even 25 lines per inch won't capture that.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

jawsborne — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 06:55:14 GMT

Thanks for the interesting post ParadisePhil.

Why aren't you shooting faster shutter speeds handheld? I was taught to double my focal length to get a shutter speed that will be sharp when shooting handheld.

Am I correct in that auto focus with the 2x extender will work with the 100-400 non IS but will not with the IS version? (I have the 100-400 IS i).

Also, some within this thread said that auto focus at F8 does not work. I used my 100-400 IS @ F8 to shoot surfing photos recently and didn't have a problem with auto focus, my body is a 6D.

Thanks

Jason

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

MickvK — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:04:21 GMT

ParadisePhil, to be honest I got tired of having to cart the 2X converter, tripod etc and I bought a 7D MKII which doesn't have the versitile swivel, touch screen. The 70D has been relagated to my 24-105 USM lens. I'd love to buy the new 100-400 USM II lens, it sounds great. Oh the cost of a hobby!

Happy shooting mate. Michael.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

ParadisePhill — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 17:59:52 GMT

Jawsborne:

I was taught the same thing, but that was before image stabilization came to lenses. My real life testing was done to quantify the best combination of speed, aperture, and ISO for the 100-400 Mark II lens on a 70D camera both with and without the 2x extender. The new II lens has amazing image stabilization which will allow you to shoot at the slower speeds required for f11 and lower ISOs.

Focus for both the old and new 100-400 lens with the extender will work only in "live view" using a 70D camera, but it works well. If you like to view through the lens when you take photos, focus in live view first, switch to manual focus, turn live view off and then compose through the viewfinder. Just remember not to touch the focus ring.

I haven't has any problems with normal focus at f8. It dose have a narrow depth of field so if you focus but holding the shutter halfway down and then wait until the subject is closer you could have a problem. There are some AI focus settings that could help.

I can't speak to how this works on a 6D, I only have the 70D

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

prentz — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 05:10:48 GMT

Yes, Live View focusing with the 70d is pretty unique. I have the 7d MkII and go to the 70d to do moon photos or super distant shots with a 300mm f4 L and the 2x. I'll have to try the 100-400mm MkII soon as I just sold the 300mm to move to the new 100-400mm. I rented it about six months ago but didn't try any teleconverter on it then.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

JesseDd — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 18:37:23 GMT

Man I glad I read this, I have a Canon 70D I was using with a new 1 to 400 mm EF lens along with a EF 2X loll extender, the Canon tech told me I would have to manually focus with it, so I have been with some real good results most of the time, I tried your suggestion in live mode & the auto focus worked great! This will be a valuable option when I need it, I bought a new 6 D full frame to use wit the lens, extender combo recently as well, works well but I wish it would auto focus like my 70 D does as I use it all the time for wildlife, the auto focus would come in handy, though I'm getting a lot better manually focusing & you can get good results if a person gets used to using the setup, Many Thanks for the valuable info. Jesse.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

JesseDd — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 18:38:51 GMT

Your right, awesome! Works great! Kudos

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

Bluemoon622 — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:41:40 GMT

I have a Canon 7D MkII that I cannot set up to allow AF with the 100-400 + 2x extender. I have tried all the setings mentioned in several articles. I realize there a very few applications for this , but want to be able to access the AF with the extender. Any better ideas other than what I have tried? (menu 4- select AF area, tried with no luck at all modes)

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

TCampbell — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:53:17 GMT

The most you should be able to use with that camera (with ANY camera, actually) is a 1.4x extender.

This has to do with how phase-detect auto-focus systems work. They need light coming to the focus sensor from different angles (normally not a problem with a wide-open aperture) but as you narrow the aperture, the opening is no longer large enough for the light to arrive from angles far enough apart to work.

Most DSLRs can only have working auto-focus on lenses of f/5.6 or less ... but Canon's newer cameras (such as your 7D Mark II) offer support for f/8.

When you use an extender, you must multiply BOTH the focal LENGTH and the focal RATIO by the extender multiplier (e.g. either 1.4 or 2.0).

So the 100-400 f/4-5/6L becomes a 200-800 f/8-11 (and it's only f/8 at the 200 end ... the moment you zoom in even a tiny bit the aperture is too narrow.

You can still manually focus ... you just can't use auto-focus.

If you used a 1.4x extender then the 100-400 f/4-5.6 becomes a 140-560mm f/5.6-8 lens and that WILL work becuase the wide-open apertures are f/8 or lower for every focal length available.

The 2x extender must not be used with any with a focal ratio higher than f/4.

Also note that there is a slow-down in the speed of AF (always) whenever you use an extender. This is intentional (normal).

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

Bluemoon622 — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:59:41 GMT

Thank you for explaining that so I can understand it. What you say makes sense. But according to some users and distributors
this camera can work with the extender and lens in autofocus, but ZI am unable to make it happen. I'll still use it on occasion anyway, but am frustrated that I can not acquire AF no matter how I set it.?

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

JesseDd — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:20:02 GMT

The AF works on my 70D in live mode with the 2Xextender, otherwise its manual focus only, the edges are soft when you have the zoom wide open, bad in low light situations, not a great combination in my view.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

TCampbell — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:22:59 GMT

@Bluemoon622 wrote:
Thank you for explaining that so I can understand it. What you say makes sense. But according to some users and distributors
this camera can work with the extender and lens in autofocus, but ZI am unable to make it happen. I'll still use it on occasion anyway, but am frustrated that I can not acquire AF no matter how I set it.?

It can work with a 1.4x extender (which would take that lens to f/8 at the long end of the zoom range) ... just not with the 2x extender (which takes it to f/11 at the long end of the zoom range.)

BTW, there are even limits when using f/8... you can't just use any AF point -- it supports the center point. I think it can "borrow" the immediately adjacent points when using AF point expansion mode ... but that's it.

Re: Canon EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L with 2x extender

Bluemoon622 — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 19:25:20 GMT

thanks again, I'll play with it....