topic Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison in EF & RF Lenses

2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

celson — Sat, 28 May 2016 17:51:41 GMT

I currently own the EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM lens and am considering purchasing the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens for an upcoming African safari trip. Curious to opinions on whether I would be better off buying the EF 2.0X III extender and using it on the 70-200 f/2.8 lens than buying the 100-400? I have never used an extender, but it would seem from the specs that all I would be giving up on are the low light / longer focal length circumstances - while having the convenience of using a single lens for almost all circumstances and saving almost $1,500...

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ScottyP — Sat, 28 May 2016 19:12:37 GMT

You lose 2 stops of light with the 2.0x extender, but it also hurts your image quality.

This is is one of those questions that will elicit a lot of subjective answers and maybe some strong opinions, but little real help unless you can see with your own eyes.

Go go to The Digital Picture website, look in the "tools" section for "lens comparisons". You can see the 70-200 with a 2x extender side by side with the 100-400 lens. Make sure you have the same aperture on both lenses to be fair. You can see center, off center and edges, and you can select different focal lengths.

Judge for yourself, but the IQ hickey with the 2x extender is worse than for the 1.4x extender and you may find it unacceptable. Or you may not.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

jrhoffman75 — Sat, 28 May 2016 19:51:17 GMT

If you don't see a use for the 100-400 after the safari why not rent one?

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ScottyP — Sat, 28 May 2016 19:54:35 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
If you don't see a use for the 100-400 after the safari why not rent one?

A great point.

And and as long as you are renting not buying, you could go grander than the limits of your purchase budget. Like the 200-400 with 1.4 teleconverter built in, or even like a 500mm f/4?

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ScottyP — Sat, 28 May 2016 19:59:39 GMT

To my eye, the 2.0 TC on the 70-200 is a lot less shap than the 100-400 across the whole frame, but especially in the corners. The TC also adds a lot of chromatic aberration/ purple fringing.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:03:45 GMT

celson.

This would not even be a consideration for me. There is no way I would use a 2x on any lens. Even the best 70-200mm in the world as the Canon is. It is a shame to hamstring such a great lens with a tele converter. However, I will freely admit the 1.4 extender does work really well with the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens. I don't use that combo a lot but when I do it is OK. Some lenses get along fine with the 1.4x but, IMHO, not the 2x.

Just how many "upcoming African safari trip(s)" do you plan or take. One? Why jeopardise it with anything less then the best you can afford? Besides you can sell the 100-400mm when you return and are though with it. Right?

But if I were you there are a couple different options I would consider. One is the ef 400mm f5.6L prime lens. It is better than the zoom you are considering. Or if you think IS is a must factor the ef 300mm f4L IS with the 1.4x tele converter. It would give you a 420mm rig @ f5.6 with IS. Plus you would have a much better IQ lens for when 400+mm isn't needed. The 300mm is extremely sharp. I just love that lens.

Current new prides;

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens... $2100

Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM Lens... $1350

Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Lens... $1150

Canon Extender EF 1.4X III... $425

Prices are off the top of my heard but I believe they are pretty close. There might be rebates I don't know about. There is always used sources and the Canon refurb store.

What camera do you have? If I was going with your circumstances I would take my Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens. My Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM Lens with the Canon Extender EF 1.4X III.

Now that is just me. What do you say?

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:10:47 GMT

"... why not rent one?"

Renting is certainly an option but make sure you take out the insurance if you do. It isn't the same as when you rent and remain in the US. Renting can be very expensive and all you have to show for it is a nice pink receipt.

Buying one and selling it afterward even at a loss is probably a cheaper way to go. White lenses re-sell easily and good.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

celson — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:14:36 GMT

Thanks Scott. I forgot to mention...using an older body, 40D. Will autofocus work at all using the extender? Just work more slowly?

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

celson — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:23:34 GMT

Great thought John...thank you! I will look into that, but inclined to buy as I travel a fair bit and also shoot my kids sports

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

celson — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:30:26 GMT

Thanks for the suggestions.! So your thought would be to go with the 300 + 1.4x TC rather than the 100-400 zoom? Both would give me ~400 at 5.6 as you say...but how do you think image quality would compare at 400 focal length between the two? I like the thought of the 400 prime, but I DO think the IS is necessary, which throws me back to the option of the 300 prime + 1.4x TC.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sat, 28 May 2016 20:47:54 GMT

celson,

I personally have all the combinations that I suggested. I have used all the combinations I suggested . This is unlike some folks that recommend gear, I have actually used it.

Either the ef 300mm f4 prime or the ef 400mm f5.6 prime is going to be sharper than the new 100-400mm zoom. Either will be much better than the older version of that zoom. This will become more apparent as you crop or enlarge that perfect shot. Especially in printing if you so desire. If all you intend is showing off on the web, this is not so important.

If you think IS is a worthwhile feature for you I have no doubt the ef 300mm f4L IS USM and 1.4x converter is the way to go. It offers the distinct advantage to use the 300mm as is, if needed.

I will add one more thought and a suggestion. It is what I would personally do not considering anything you have said.

I would opt for the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD Lens for Canon. It is selling right at a grand right now. It is an unbelievable lens for the money. There is a SIgma model that is very simular but lacks any weather proofing which the Tamron has. But it is the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary Lens for Canon EF. Your choice as they are nealy twins in IQ.

Perhaps buying one of those lenses would leave enough money left over for a Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera ($1200).

Hmmmmm...?

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

RobertTheFat — Sat, 28 May 2016 21:13:40 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
celson,
I personally have all the combinations that I suggested. I have used all the combinations I suggested . This is unlike some folks that recommend gear, I have actually used it.

Either the ef 300mm f4 prime or the ef 400mm f5.6 prime is going to be sharper than the new 100-400mm zoom. Either will be much better than the older version of that zoom. This will become more apparent as you crop or enlarge that perfect shot. Especially in printing if you so desire. If all you intend is showing off on the web, this is not so important.

If you think IS is a worthwhile feature for you I have no doubt the ef 300mm f4L IS USM and 1.4x converter is the way to go. It offers the distinct advantage to use the 300mm as is, if needed.

I will add one more thought and a suggestion. It is what I would personally do not considering anything you have said.
I would opt for the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD Lens for Canon. It is selling right at a grand right now. It is an unbelievable lens for the money. There is a SIgma model that is very simular but lacks any weather proofing which the Tamron has. But it is the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary Lens for Canon EF. Your choice as they are nealy twins in IQ.

Perhaps buying one of those lenses would leave enough money left over for a Canon EOS 80D DSLR Camera ($1200).
Hmmmmm...?

I've never used the Tamron or any of those primes, but I do endorse Ernie's suggestion that a new camera may do you more good than a major lens upgrade. On an organized safari you'll be able to use a tripod sometimes (assuming you have room enough to bring it along) and sometimes not. And a very long lens is very difficult to hand-hold on a crop-frame camera. I might be inclined to combine Ernie's suggestions and get the 1.4 TC (for your 70-200) and a new 80D or 7D2. Just a thought to confuse you further.

BTW, you might want to check the archives. I believe we had a lonnng discussion on the tradeoff betsween various teleconverters and various lenses sometime last year.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

celson — Sat, 28 May 2016 22:56:36 GMT

Thanks to all for thoughts...still doing my homework, but leaning towards new 80D and the Tamron 150-600.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sun, 29 May 2016 03:06:41 GMT

"... leaning towards new 80D and the Tamron 150-600."

Outstanding choice. The 80D as Robert from Boston indicated will blow the doors off your 40D. Most of the time lenses top the trade up or upgrade choices. But in your case an upgraded camera will help in many ways.
If you buy the big Tammy, you won't let it go.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

TTMartin — Sun, 29 May 2016 13:09:47 GMT

@celson wrote:
Thanks to all for thoughts...still doing my homework, but leaning towards new 80D and the Tamron 150-600.

Be very careful!!! The Tamron 150-600 has had focus issues with newer Canon cameras. The lenses had to be sent back to Tamron for a firmware update. Since the 80D is so new, who knows how it will work.

Also, it performs well on fat pixels of full frame cameras, but, not so well on with the higher pixel density of the newer crop sensor cameras.

The Tamron 150-600 would probably be ok, with your 40D since at 10 megapixels it has relatively large pixels.

Edit: Evidently there is no way to know if your lens was built with the new or old firmware. Supposedly from Tamron Technical Support. - 'Thank you for contacting Tamron. We do have an update for this lens that should help with autofocus all around. Unfortunately I don't have a specific serial number range for which lenses were updated. Your serial number is early in the series so this was most likely not updated. If you would like to send the lens in for the update please complete the attached service form and send the lens to our address at the bottom of the form. Please include your warranty confirmation number or a copy of your receipt.'

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sun, 29 May 2016 14:30:29 GMT

celson,

"... leaning towards new 80D and the Tamron 150-600."

Here again I can only repeat what already I told you.

"I personally have all the combinations that I suggested. I have used all the combinations I suggested. This is unlike some folks that recommend, (or don't in this case) gear, I have actually used it."

DXO is highly disregarded by a lot of people, including me. So take it with a grain of salt. There was/is/ maybe a focus issue with the early Tamrons. But it affected the AI-Servo tracking ability. Neither of the two Tamron 150-600's I own exhibit this. Possibly I am just lucky but both were early models. Now Tamron has many thousands sold. Buy the lens from a good retailer like BH Photo or Adorama, Roberts Camera, Best Buy, etc. Matter of fact get the camera from one of these retailers. Or possibly form a local camera store that will let you play with the gear before you buy it.

Both shot on a crop camera. 600mm and 150mm.

Another point to remember in this decision, we are comparing this lens to lenses like the ef 100-400mm. Now the older 100-400mm is not in the same class as the Tamron which has far more updated optics. The Tamron is very sharp when compared like-for-like on cameras like EOS 80D. Plus the 100-400mm (new or old) doesn't have 500mm or 600mm at all!

We are not comparing it to lenses like the EF 600mm f4L whcih is 10 times more expensive.

Maybe the ef 70-200mm f2.8L plus the 1.4x converter has better IQ but it won't have 500mm or 600mm either. I would offer one more suggestion. Get the lens well before you are to leave and need it. Learn it. Learn how it works. A big tele like this will require some learnig. You are talking some serious focal length here.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ScottyP — Sun, 29 May 2016 15:01:59 GMT

Interesting. Until just now, I didn't realize you can accept your own post as the solution. I thought it was like giving kudos, and how you can't congratulate yourself.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

TTMartin — Sun, 29 May 2016 15:22:36 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
celson,
"... leaning towards new 80D and the Tamron 150-600."

Here again I can only repeat what already I told you.
"I personally have all the combinations that I suggested. I have used all the combinations I suggested. This is unlike some folks that recommend, (or don't in this case) gear, I have actually used it."

When did you get an 80D?

And I'm sorry neither of those images are particularly compelling.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sun, 29 May 2016 15:33:16 GMT

"When did you get an 80D?"

Do you mistakenly think all my gear is indicateds in my sig? Well don't!

"And I'm sorry neither of those images are particularly compelling."

Odd reply coming from you, I must say.

Re: 2.0x Extender vs. New Telephoto Lens Comparison

ebiggs1 — Sun, 29 May 2016 15:40:23 GMT

"I didn't realize you can accept your own post as the solution."

Sometimes you just have to. In this case no one said the Tammy is the best there is. But it is the best there is for the OP's requirements. And an upgrade to the 80D or 70D for that matter is also worthwhile. Are either of these the best camera? No but for the OP they are a good deal.

That in a nutshell is the synopsis of the response. And as freely stated, my humble opinion.