topic Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor. in EF & RF Lenses

28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 00:44:59 GMT

Sorry for the newbie question but I've searched Google and couldn't really understand this. I have a 40D with a 28-135mm EF lens. I understand this is a APS-C camera and since the lens is an EF that the effective zoom is 44-216mm. I would like to get more zoom but the EF-S telephoto is 55-250mm. 250mm doesn't seem like much more that 216mm and I'm not sure it's worth it. I've also looked at the EF 70-300mm which would be 112-480mm. It's twice as much money and would think I would want it slightly wider at the low end.

Also, if I go with the EF-S 55-250 would the STM be worth it over the standard? I want a quick focus as this will be used mainly for wildlife. How does the standard and STM compare to the USM of my current lens?

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

diverhank — Thu, 26 May 2016 05:13:30 GMT

The way the lens numbering is done, it is all based on a 35mm sensor (full frame) so there is no difference for the EF lenses and EF-S lenses in the numbers. You would still multiply the 250mm by 1.6 to get the actual effective focal length.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ScottyP — Thu, 26 May 2016 10:05:04 GMT

Exactly. The camera gives the lens the 1.6x focal length boost by narrowing the field of view. Happens on both EF and EFs lenses. 250 is quite a lot longer than 135. And both get "multiplied" x 1.6 the same way.

What at are you shooting? Hope it is not birds. Birds are tiny and on my old crop camera a 250mm lens was still not long enough even with the 1.6 crop multiplier to bring them close if they were across the yard. I set up a feeder to bring them right up to within 12 feet from the window and then my upgraded 70-200 worked great.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 10:26:38 GMT

Gotcha! Thanks for explaining that! But to answer your question, some pics will be birds probably. What zoom would you suggest?

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

Waddizzle — Thu, 26 May 2016 12:25:25 GMT

@klavender wrote:
Gotcha! Thanks for explaining that! But to answer your question, some pics will be birds probably. What zoom would you suggest?

The focal length [mm] of lens describes a physical dimension within the lens body. The difference between EF and EF-S lens rests almost solely with the lens mount. EF-S lenses do not fit properly on EOS cameras with full frame sensors, just the cameras with the APS-C sensors. The crop factor [ x1.6 ] for lenses used with APS-C bodies is the same for both EF and EF-S lenses.

Some say that you need at least 400mm to effectively photograph birds. Or, you can set up a bird feeder about 12 feet from your window and use a 200mm lens.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

RobertTheFat — Thu, 26 May 2016 12:45:43 GMT

@klavender wrote:
Sorry for the newbie question but I've searched Google and couldn't really understand this. I have a 40D with a 28-135mm EF lens. I understand this is a APS-C camera and since the lens is an EF that the effective zoom is 44-216mm. I would like to get more zoom but the EF-S telephoto is 55-250mm. 250mm doesn't seem like much more that 216mm and I'm not sure it's worth it. I've also looked at the EF 70-300mm which would be 112-480mm. It's twice as much money and would think I would want it slightly wider at the low end.

Also, if I go with the EF-S 55-250 would the STM be worth it over the standard? I want a quick focus as this will be used mainly for wildlife. How does the standard and STM compare to the USM of my current lens?

The "crop factor" refers to the fact that with a lens of a given focal length, a camera with a smaller APS-C sensor uses less of the image the lens produces than does a "full-frame" camera with a 24x36mm sensor (by a factor of about 1/1.6, in Canon's case). The effect of this is that a lens of a given focal length is less of a wide angle (or more of a telephoto) on, say, a 40D than on a full-frame camera like a 6D or a 5D Mark III. You can, if you wish, use the crop factor to compute the "effective" focal length the lens will exhibit on one type of camera vs its behavior on the other. Many people use that computation, but I recommend against it. I think it's easier to simply learn how a given lens behaves on a camera of either type. For example, a 50mm lens is "normal" on a 6D, but a mild telephoto or portrait lens on a 40D. On the 40D, a "normal" lens would be about 32mm. Similarly, on a 6D anything below about 24mm is considered pretty wide; on the 40D that figure is about 17mm. On a 6D a 200mm lens is a pretty long telephoto; on a 40D it's even longer. Once you get used to this approach, you can pick up any camera and know which lens to use in any situation, without worrying about what lens you might have chosen if you were using a different camera. The bottom line is: Compute or memorize effective focal lengths if you find it useful to do so, but there's nothing mandatory about it.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ebiggs1 — Thu, 26 May 2016 13:32:32 GMT

"... some pics will be birds probably. What zoom would you suggest?"

As with almost everything in photography, location is the key factor. Where will you be shooting from? It is not the lens. Not the camera. Where will you be and where is your subject.

No lens changes its focal length. It is what it is and forever will be. It is the angle-of-view, AOV, that is different. Learning this is more valuable than focal length. Crop factor was and is a dumb idea, IMHO, ofcourse.

To give you an idea of what might be required for shooting birds, I offer this.

The data on this shot is: EOS 1D Mk IV. 600mm, f7, 1/400, ISO 800. The rig is on a heavy duty Manfrotto 546 w/501 head tripod.

Now the critical part, I was about 25 feet from this guy! Even a 600mm (720mm crop factor) lens will be handicapped by distance. It s not going to get the job done if you are too far away. So you must be close, or as I stated above, location, location, location. It is key.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 14:21:40 GMT

I bought this camera years ago for a good deal from a friend who was upgrading to a full frame. This was before I really understood the difference. This camera is better than my ability. I guess I have too many exspensive hobbies without the matching funding. I've toyed with the idea of buying a used full frame instead of buying a zoom lens. But then I'd still be without a zoom. It's hard for me to justify spending the money when this is a once in a while hobby for me. Combined with that fact that I tend to overthink things. Just trying to get the most out of my dollar. It sounds like I just need to get the 55-250mm EF-S STM lens and be happy with it. I just wish it came in USM. Or they had a comprable USM for about the same money. It's $300 versus $450 (for the 70-300mm EF). Thank to everyone for their insight. I really appreciate it.

On second thought, maybe I should just spend the extra $150.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

Waddizzle — Thu, 26 May 2016 14:48:10 GMT

@klavender wrote:
.... .... ....

On second thought, maybe I should just spend the extra $150.

Yes, perhaps you should. I would advise not being any EF-S telephoto zoom lenses. I would also advise doing a little more research into camera lenses, and gaining a bit more experience with your camera before splurging on a new lens.

There have a couple of different vesions of the EF-S 55-250mm, and all are currently discontinued, AFAIK. I picked one [in pristine, factory refurbished condition] for my son from the Canon Online Refurbished Store for under one hundred U.S. dollars last year. That should give you some idea of what those lenses are really worth.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

diverhank — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:38:09 GMT

@klavender wrote:

Also, if I go with the EF-S 55-250 would the STM be worth it over the standard? I want a quick focus as this will be used mainly for wildlife. How does the standard and STM compare to the USM of my current lens?

As far as I know the difference between STM and USM is that STM doesn't make as much noise and thus is better for taking video. There should be no discernable speed difference.

For birding type of pictures...it will get expensive really quickly so you should be mentally prepared for it :). I have 2 recommendations. 1. Get as much focal length as possible...you will never have enough reach (for all cases). 2. Get as good a lens as you can get -soon you will want razor sharp images of a bird's eye and your 55-250 and 70-300 non-L will struggle.

Here are the most popular lenses (not comprehensive) for the serious birders - none of them, unfortunately is going to be under $1000 (except you can find some really good deals for used # 1, 2, 4 and # 5).

1. Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L

2. Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS I USM

3. Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM

4. Tamron SP 150-600mm F/5-6.3 Di VC US

5. Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary

6. Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sports

Other lenses (not comprehensive) for even more serious birders - each of these costs as much as my car...

1. Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L version I and II

2. Canon EF 500mm f/4L version I and II

3. Canon EF 600mm f/4L version I and II

4. Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 16:58:55 GMT

I wouldn't consider myself a serious birder. I just dabble. Lol. I want a decent all around use zoom. Amazon has a EF 75-300mm USM but not IS for $180. How important is IS considering I might not have the steadiest hands?

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ScottyP — Thu, 26 May 2016 17:16:43 GMT

Don't get the 75-300. Bad image quality. Either the 55-250 or the 70-300 are better. Or spend more for some of the other suggestions.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 17:40:46 GMT

Ok, after way too much reading. I'm pretty much decided on the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM. The STM seems to be just as fast as the USM. And is said to be sharper than the 70-300mm. It's said to be a very good lens for the money. As much as I try and talk myself into spending more money, I just can't do it. I really do appreciate everyone's help and advice.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

Waddizzle — Thu, 26 May 2016 17:48:05 GMT

@klavender wrote:
Ok, after way too much reading. I'm pretty much decided on the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM. The STM seems to be just as fast as the USM. And is said to be sharper than the 70-300mm. It's said to be a very good lens for the money. As much as I try and talk myself into spending more money, I just can't do it. I really do appreciate everyone's help and advice.

Don't buy it from Amazon, or eBay. Buy it with a one year warranty from the Canon Online Refurbished store, which currently has it discounted by 50%. See the link to the store at the lower right corner of these forum pages.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

klavender — Thu, 26 May 2016 18:39:46 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@klavender wrote:
Ok, after way too much reading. I'm pretty much decided on the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM. The STM seems to be just as fast as the USM. And is said to be sharper than the 70-300mm. It's said to be a very good lens for the money. As much as I try and talk myself into spending more money, I just can't do it. I really do appreciate everyone's help and advice.
Don't buy it from Amazon, or eBay. Buy it with a one year warranty from the Canon Online Refurbished store, which currently has it discounted by 50%. See the link to the store at the lower right corner of these forum pages.

Awesome! Just ordered it for $130!!!!!! With the same warranty as new and a 14 day return policy if I don't like it. You definitely can't beat it for that kind of money.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ebiggs1 — Thu, 26 May 2016 20:50:24 GMT

"Don't buy it from Amazon, ..."

This is excellent advise. Don't buy any camera gear from Amazon. Now for ebay that is another story. If you know what you are doing and the item, you can make a good deal.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

TTMartin — Thu, 26 May 2016 23:36:43 GMT

@klavender wrote:
I bought this camera years ago for a good deal from a friend who was upgrading to a full frame. This was before I really understood the difference. This camera is better than my ability. I guess I have too many exspensive hobbies without the matching funding. I've toyed with the idea of buying a used full frame instead of buying a zoom lens. But then I'd still be without a zoom. It's hard for me to justify spending the money when this is a once in a while hobby for me. Combined with that fact that I tend to overthink things. Just trying to get the most out of my dollar. It sounds like I just need to get the 55-250mm EF-S STM lens and be happy with it. I just wish it came in USM. Or they had a comprable USM for about the same money. It's $300 versus $450 (for the 70-300mm EF). Thank to everyone for their insight. I really appreciate it.

On second thought, maybe I should just spend the extra $150.

Nope, the 55-250 IS STM is a much better lens, and STM focus for still photographs, while not as fast as USM, is fast enough. STM focus has to be slowed for video, it's not always slow.

As for needing a longer lens, yes it seems like you can never have too long of a lens for birding. A good budget lens for birding with the 40D is the Sigma 150-500 OS, my wife used this combo until getting my hand me down 7D. She still uses the Sigma 150-500 OS with the 7D. The Sigma 150-500 is not their latest and greatest, but, is still a pretty decent lens.

The other thing you can do when you are focal length challenged is get closer to the birds. You can do this by setting up a feeding station so they come closer to you, or camo or blinds so you can get closer to them.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

TTMartin — Thu, 26 May 2016 23:41:17 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
Don't buy it from Amazon, or eBay. Buy it with a one year warranty from the Canon Online Refurbished store, which currently has it discounted by 50%. See the link to the store at the lower right corner of these forum pages.

While I agree with the eBay part, I've bought a lot of gear from Amazon. Other than occasional under padding lenses for shipment which they quickly accepted a return (they paid the return shipping). There are 3rd party sellers on Amazon which I would avoid, but, I've had zero issues with orders fulfilled by Amazon (Prime), and issues were quickly resolved with a no hassle return.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ebiggs1 — Fri, 27 May 2016 08:31:32 GMT

The Sigma 150-500mm f/5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens has been discontinued. It was some time ago. The only resource for one now is used. Possibly not the best lens to buy on the used market. Lot's of problems.

The Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens for Canon is, or at least was the last I saw, still available but it isn't cheap. Not in my book anyway. Either one is an OK lens but neither is a great lens.

Re: 28-135mm EF vs. 55-250mm EF-S, please help me understand crop factor.

ScottyP — Fri, 27 May 2016 14:01:18 GMT

These telephoto lenses get expensive quick. Birds are infamously cheap and will seldom pay a dime, even for a first rate portrait.

Unless you have a lot of money and a serious interest in birding just work on getting close to the birds instead of getting a monster lens.

Go to the birds.

Our aviary in Pittsburgh has a room painted sky blue which is full of fake branches. And birds. You walk right in and you compose the shot of a bird 6-12 feet away and use a wide aperture to blur out the background and it looks like you were outdoors with a high power lens.

Bring the birds to you.

Also you can set up a feeder outside a window. Paper the window over leaving just a shooting hole so the birds don't see you. Hang a dead branch near the feeder for them to sit on so you don't have the feeder in every shot.