topic Re: R series cameras in EF & RF Lenses

R series cameras

gwillumbury1 — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:08:21 GMT

Are the existing lenses and l lenses going to be able to be used on the new R series camera bodies? Or does everyone have to now switch to new lenses if they want an R series camera body.

Re: R series cameras

kvbarkley — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:56:34 GMT

Canon makes some adapters that will allow the use of EF and EF-S lenses. Since the adapter just has to add the space that the mirror box required, there is no glass and they work very well. Some even add control rings so you can control camera parameters by twisting a ring on the lens.

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:29:49 GMT

An adapter is still an adapter. It "adapts" something that isn't designed to work with a camera, to work with that camera. I have never liked them and I still don't like them. If nothing else, it is just another piece or step one must go through that isn't necessary if the correct lens is used to begin with. One more object to keep track of and carry. One of the same reasons I don't like or use tel-cons much.

I use the Ed Mika adapter for FD to EF. It works but it is still an adapter. However it mounts permanently to the FD lens so to me it is acceptable.

You like'em fine.

Re: R series cameras

kvbarkley — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:25:22 GMT

While there are some electronics there, most obviously in the ones with the control ring, it is actually more of a "spacer" than an adapter. And the camera is specifically designed to work with it, even providing distortion correction for EF and EF-S lenses. So, it is not the case that it is "something that isn't designed to work with a camera", since it is all Canon equipment.

You might as well say that an EF lens purchased in 2000 was "not designed" to work with a 1Dx Mark III.

Re: R series cameras

Waddizzle — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:28:15 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
An adapter is still an adapter. It "adapts" something that isn't designed to work with....

I use the Ed Mika adapter for FD to EF. It works but it is still an adapter. However it mounts permanently to the FD lens so to me it is acceptable.

You like'em fine.

In my mind, there are different categories of adapters. Teleconverters and macro tubes fall into their own sub-categories.

Your Ed Mika adapter I would categorize as a lens adapter, which is borne out by the fact that it stays attached to the lens. One typically buys an adapter for every lens what they wish to adapt. Some may contain optics, and many do not.

The EF-EOS R adapter is one I would categorize as a mount adapter. Like it's cousin for EF-M bodies, it stays mounted on the camera body. You do not need to buy one for every lens. They also contain a lens release button, something which many lens adapters do not have.

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 00:11:39 GMT

"You might as well say that an EF lens purchased in 2000 was "not designed" to work with a 1Dx Mark III."

I might but I doubt it. Nah, come to think of i wouldn't say it at all. It adapts a lens that will not work on a certain camera without it. That is an adapter. It is another part I have to buy. Keep track of it. Store it. Attach it and remove it. Can't sugar coat it.

Re: R series cameras

wq9nsc — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 15:44:45 GMT

Good point Ernie and I remember years ago doing a google search on 100% crop and quickly concluding there were a lot of people who "knew" how to do 100% crops but there was a lot of disagreement among these experts over the definition.

In the future I will just specify the pixel dimensions selected when creating the crop in DPP so that nobody has to do the math based upon different camera sensor sizes. For cases like this I create the output file with the same pixel dimensions as the crop instead of down sampling.

And to avoid highjacking this thread, I know that you have a LOT of experience going back to the film days. Did you ever use the EF-135 F2.8 "soft focus" lens? If so please PM me with your thoughts. An old friend had one he bought near the end of the film era and it was still in its box and virtually unused for $25 and it is on the way here as an experimental toy. I know that the basic effect can be created in PS but it will be interesting to see how this was done old school using optical manipulation.

Rodger

Re: R series cameras

Hardings — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:32:42 GMT

Canon’s full-frame EOS R system may be less than a year old paygoonline, but we’ve already gotten a good glimpse at the breadth it will cover

Re: R series cameras

RobertTheFat — Wed, 06 May 2020 02:47:15 GMT

@Hardings wrote:
Canon’s full-frame EOS R system may be less than a year old, but we’ve already gotten a good glimpse at the breadth it will cover.

I guess it's a fair assessment, from what we now think we know, that the R5 begins the next generation of the "5" series.

Left open to speculation is whether there will be a mirrorless equivalent of the "1" series. Or will there simply be a battery grip that effectively turns the R5 int an "R1"? After all, it appears that the main feature that the R5 needs, but may not yet have, is a more powerful battery.

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Thu, 07 May 2020 14:35:17 GMT

Robert a 5 series is not and will never be a 1 series no matter how many or what kind of battery grip you put on it.

There is no doubt in my mind the 1DX Mk III is likely the last 1 series as we know it but the next or new 1 series camera isn't a modified 5. It will be a full on, no doubt, 1 series camera all the way.

Re: R series cameras

wq9nsc — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:06:01 GMT

Ernie,

I am confident that there will be another DSLR 1 series after the III because for sports (and some wildlife) applications the DSLR system is still superior to anything available in mirrorless. Mirrorless is a different model for a camera system derived largely from the idea of a camcorder and as such it brings to the table both advantages and disadvantages and is NOT the perfect platform for all uses and users.

As Canon Europe noted, there will always be some lag between acquisition and display with an EVF and the separate dedicated AF sensor of a DSLR is far faster at acquiring focus when switching between two scenes with a huge difference in focus. I think the other major issue, increasing high ISO noise due to a constantly operating sensor and A to D converter, is probably the most practically addressed of the three but it would require active cooling (with a further hit to battery life); otherwise mirrorless faces the same issue of sustained operation as Liveview where noise increases with increasing component temperature.

For most users, both amateur and professionals, in studio, wedding, corporate event, etc. these limitations aren't important and the mirrorless advantages outweigh its drawbacks but the 1 series DSLR is targeted towards top performance and robustness against conditions for the most demanding applications. The R-1 would likely find its greatest success as a high resolution studio analog to the 1DX much like the older 1DS split and would also be a good choice for those who want the cachet of a 1 series but without the sports/action specialization.

What will likely happen is the 1 series DSLR price differential will become even greater and the market will be smaller as it becomes even more the testing and development platform for new sensor and processing technologies. Yes, the display lag will be fairly short and the AF performance will be very good but for a segment of the market willing to pay high prices for incredibly sharp long primes to get the best performance the "almost as good" of mirrorless won't be good enough because otherwise Canon would have had a very difficult time selling the 1DX II and 1DX III to current owners who are willing to pay the price for performance that is a little better and NOT a little worse.

https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/future-of-dslrs/

Rodger

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:33:22 GMT

Yeah I know, there is still a good chance there will be a Mk IV, no doubt. But consider that is likely a year+ away and then, if there is a Mk IV, it will add another year+ away. Maybe 2+ years, by then Canon might get this mirrorless thing figured out. It certainly seems as if they are bound and determined to do it.

Re: R series cameras

wq9nsc — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:50:41 GMT

Ernie,

I wish Canon luck but that might lead them down the path of doing so much to try to make it work that it becomes counterproductive. It would be sort of like the people who buy a half ton pickup and modify the hell out of it so they can tow a heavy fifth wheel RV. The end result is something that still isn't the proper tool for the job at hand.

It is similar to what GM has gone through with Corvette engineering and OHC vs OHV engines. Although OHC is viewed as the "better and newer" technology, because of its taller package with camshafts mounted above the heads it wasn't a good fit for a vehicle needing a very low overall height and low center of gravity. The best technology is an application specific choice instead of a global generic answer. If the need was for a small engine that develops its power at a very high RPM then a small OHC engine would have been the choice but for a chassis and driving experience designed for a torque monster the short height OHV was the far better choice.

I am confident that Canon engineers will continue to deliver the goods unless the "MBA mindset" has also poisoned Canon.

Rodger

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Thu, 07 May 2020 22:13:01 GMT

Chevy decided that the engine should not be in the front of the Corvette and a mid engine location is best. Will you bet in 2+ years from now Chevy won't decide an OHC engine is better? Things change. Trends come and go. Right now I suspect Canon is throwing all its R&D towards mirrorless. Never under estimate what a determined engineer can accomplish especially when the company is pushing him in that direction. Will I be surprised if they don't have a mirrorless 1 series in 2+ years? No I won't but I won't be shocked if they do either. It's coming, my friend.

BTW, don't you remember how horrible the very first mirrorless cameras were? Aren't they lightyears better now? They are!

Re: R series cameras

wq9nsc — Thu, 07 May 2020 23:17:28 GMT

Ernie,

I expect electric is coming soon to the Corvette since GM trademarked E ray and some other related terms a few years ago. There has been a DOHC (Lotus design, assembled by Mercury Marine) in a ZR-1 in years past and the OHC route will like be a better fit for the mid-engine version. Not sure when/if I will make a jump to the C8 because my 2016 C7 Z06 only has 14,000 on it at this point and it is still very capable of scaring me 🙂

I expect there will be a 1 series mirrorless soon but I don't expect it to replace the 1 series DSLR until the mirrorless gets past its limitations for sports. The mirrorless makes far more sense at the lower ranges where cost and size/weight are important but those don't apply at the 1 series level. Battery life will have to be resolved; 2 hours high speed shooting with servo AF doesn't tax the battery in a 1DX series even in 15 degree weather. Of course with the additional heat generated by that constantly operating imaging system the mirrorless may do a good job of keeping its battery warm 🙂

Rodger

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Fri, 08 May 2020 13:56:05 GMT

Simple engineering challenges to overcome. Canon will never keep both formats when the time comes. A hint is to watch the lens development area.

The official confirmation that the company has shifted its immediate focus on new lenses to its new mirrorless cameras is a sharp reality check for us Canon DSLR owners. IMHO this is the beginning of the end for EF lens development. I am sure or anyway likely a few EF lenses are/were in the development stage pipeline and could be released soon. Who knows? But watch the EF lens development as an indicator.

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Fri, 08 May 2020 14:08:47 GMT

"But watch the EF lens development as an indicator."

I have been through Canon's lens change before. Was not a happy time for a lot of us. I was on the verge as many of us to switch to brand-N. I had a small, no a large, fortune in FD lenses. I got into quite a bruh ha ha with the Canon rep in, at the time, KC's largest photography store. Drew a large crowd. Got loud! And poor publicity for Canon.

I, later, came to understand the fact the FD mount was too restrictive for what Canon had in mind for the new cameras coming out. This is exactly the same situation like it or not. Things change, the issues and problems will be overcome. A matter of time.

Re: R series cameras

Waddizzle — Fri, 08 May 2020 14:43:18 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Simple engineering challenges to overcome. Canon will never keep both formats when the time comes. A hint is to watch the lens development area.
The official confirmation that the company has shifted its immediate focus on new lenses to its new mirrorless cameras is a sharp reality check for us Canon DSLR owners. IMHO this is the beginning of the end for EF lens development. I am sure or anyway likely a few EF lenses are/were in the development stage pipeline and could be released soon. Who knows? But watch the EF lens development as an indicator.

Canon announced several months ago that development of new EF lens designs will be coming to a halt. They were careful to point out that if there is sufficient customer demand for specific type of lens, then they would put in the effort to come up with a new EF lens design.

Re: R series cameras

ebiggs1 — Fri, 08 May 2020 14:59:41 GMT

"...new EF lens designs will be coming to a halt."

I agree, Rodger is just overly hoping his, and mine for that matter, 1 series will always be there. Been there done that. The writing is on the wall. It is a matter of time. Give it 2+, give or take, years! You can bet Canon's technology is well beyond what cameras they are releasing today.

Re: R series cameras

wq9nsc — Fri, 08 May 2020 20:41:20 GMT

I expect that there will be a Mark IV before the 1DX series is done and by the time it moves along my desire (and ability) to carry and hold large prime glass for action may also be gone. I enjoy the fun of it now and I suspect the glass and bodies I own or will purchase in the next three years will carry me through my sports shooting days. After that, I will be a little less concerned about gear performance. Next major goal is to get out to the Rockies to capture some wildlife images, something I tried most unsuccessfully a LONG time ago with a Canon EOS 650 and an EF zoom lens that I can't even remember the specs of other than it hitting 300 at the long end and it wasn't that impressive. The EF 800 with a 1.4X should do a much better job.

The last two weeks when I have made my weekly early morning run to WalMart 20 miles away, I have passed a gorgeous pheasant wandering back and forth across the road just under a mile north of my place right before I get to the nearest neighbor. I decided to hike up this morning with a 1DX III and EF 800 f5.6 heading straight north into a very cold 25 mile per hour wind. The pheasant didn't show 😞 The lens felt rather heavy by the time I got home! Tomorrow morning I am heading back early but in a car or pickup instead. The day will come far too soon when running up and down the sideline with the necessary gear won't be as enjoyable. Currently hand holding the 300 or 400 for a couple of hours isn't a big deal and the next phase will be a monopod. After wrestling with the belt tension spring on a Deere 72" midmount mower deck yesterday afternoon to get the old belt off and the new belt on even the big Canon lens felt like a feather by comparison 🙂

Rodger