topic Canon 60 Lens Recommendation in EF & RF Lenses

Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

bertotr — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:35:29 GMT

Hi everyone,

I have a 60D which I have been using for the past 9 years. I am using it mostly for family events, travel and now my kids sports. My question is which lens is recommended for outdoor youth soccer day games. I am near the sideline. I have used the canon 55-250 STM and had some issues with lens. The major issue was the pictures were not in focus or sharp. I manually set the camera in TV mode with shutter speed 1/1000, auti ISO and aperture was dictated by the lens as it was variable. I also had it on AI Servo mode and center point focus. It may have been my error as to the reason the pictures were not in focus or sharp. What lens do you all recommend for my needs? I have no problem giving the 55-250 STM another change but would like other recommendations. I am not planning to upgrade camera anytime soon. If I do upgrade not sure if it will be another APSC or full frame.

Thank you for your time and help.

Robert

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 21:38:31 GMT

Can you post a sample photo?

What Drive Mode are you using, One Shot or Continuous? For action photography, you would almost certainly would want to Continuous Drive Mode and AI Servo Focusing.Mode.

I would also suggest that you enable all AF points. Keep you subject within AF point display, and bear in mind that the camera will want to focus on the nearest subject. The camera will continuously focus for as long as you half press the shutter, or by pressing the [AF-ON] button on the rear panel.

The 55-250mm STM lens is not the fastest focusing lens. But, it should be fast enough for the 60D frame rate. You are using Tv mode with ISO Auto. I do not like to allow the camera to control 2 legs of the Exposure Triangle. I let the camera control only 1 leg at a time.

I am going to suggest using Av mode with an aperture of f/8, which should give you enough depth of field to bring a small group of players all into focus. I suggest using an ISO of 400. The camera will pick the fastest shutter speed. You want shutter speeds in the 1/800 range, or faster for action sports.

Try that out, and see if you get any improvement. BTW, you did not say what your budget is for a new lens.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 21:57:30 GMT

The 55-250mm zoom can work. Matter of fact it is one of the better 'kit' lenses. None of Canon's kit lenses are outstanding so if you want better lens performance you need to get into the "L" glass series. Now let's fix you camera settings...........

"I would also suggest that you enable all AF points."

I on the other hand would not do that. I still prefer a single AF point right in the center. If you do want to have more, limit it to 9 surrounding the center point.

"The 55-250mm STM lens is not the fastest focusing lens."

I agree so this will always make for compromise.

"You are using Tv mode with ISO Auto. ... I let the camera control only 1 leg at a time....

I am going to suggest using Av mode with an aperture of f/8, ... I suggest using an ISO of 400. The camera will pick the fastest shutter speed. You want shutter speeds in the 1/800 range, or faster for action sports."

Agree almost! Use a fixed ISO of 1600.

You next decision is do you want a better lens? If yes, the 70-200mm f2.8 is where you want to go. ALso keep in mind if new is out of the question, these are great lenses to buy used. They are extremely rugged and repairable if needed.

Using one of them I would drop the Av to f4 and perhaps the ISO to 800 but that depends on what it does to the SS.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 01:02:26 GMT

“I on the other hand would not do that. I still prefer a single AF point right in the center. If you do want to have more, limit it to 9 surrounding the center point.”

The 60D has only 9 AF points, which Is exactly why I suggest to enable all of the AF points.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 01:07:54 GMT

😊

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

bertotr — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 03:10:11 GMT

Thank you all for your suggestions. I do have it on continuous drive mode. I will change to all focus points. I thought shutter priority was better for sports but will try aperture priority. I was leaning to a 70-200 lens and you all confirmed my thoughts. Do I need image stabilization for sports? From your recommendations, F4-F8 aperture is what I need for sports. Other than the F2.8 lens being better in low light, is there a difference between the F2.8 vs F4 70-200 lenses? I do plan to buy used lenses for cost savings. Thank you again for your help.

Robert

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:26:18 GMT

@bertotr wrote:
Thank you all for your suggestions. I do have it on continuous drive mode. I will change to all focus points. I thought shutter priority was better for sports but will try aperture priority. I was leaning to a 70-200 lens and you all confirmed my thoughts.

Do I need image stabilization for sports? From your recommendations, F4-F8 aperture is what I need for sports.

Other than the F2.8 lens being better in low light, is there a difference between the F2.8 vs F4 70-200 lenses? I do plan to buy used lenses for cost savings. Thank you again for your help.

Robert

As far as which shooting mode is best to use for sports, that is really a matter of personal preference. The main reason that I suggested Av mode was to get you to try something different, most especially turning off the ISO Auto. Try setting a specific ISO in Tv mode, too. Experiment. Personally, I like shoot sports in M mode with ISO set to Auto, which gives me complete control of both shutter and aperture.

I do not feel Image Stabilization is a must have for sports photography, most especially at focal lengths at or under 300mm. Photographers were shooting sports for decades before IS came along. Shutter speed is more important than having IS.

A general rule of thumb for shutter speed is the one over the focal length rule, 1 / FL, for reducing camera shake in your images. This rule gives you a ballpark figure of what should be your minimum shutter speed. If you have a 200mm lens, then your minimum SS should 1/200.

But the rule 1 / FL formula applies to full frame sensors. With an APS-C sensor I recommend using 1/ (2 * FL). So once again, if you have a 200mm focal length, then your minimum SS works out to be 1/400. Bear in mind that this rule applies strictly to camera shake, not motion blur of subjects, and it represents a minimum SS. Personally, I like to double the minimum speed, even if I do have IS in my lens.

One of biggest advantages of having a wide aperture lens is that the AF sensor receives more light when autofocusing. All DSLRs focus with the lens at its’ widest aperture setting. The camera will stop down the aperture to your exposure setting when you take a photo.

Because the AF sensor is receiving twice as much light with an f/2.8 lens compared to an f/4 lens, the AF sensor can do its’ job more easily anc accurately. An f/4 lens let’s in twice as much light as an f/5.6 lens, which is where you are at over most of the zoom range of the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens.

Beware of buying used lenses, most especially when buying one sight unseen on the internet. Only buy a used lens from a reputable used camera gear dealer, who offers you a “warranty” period. Personally, I have had good experiences buying used gear from KEH. I have found that their rating system to be on the conservative side, meaning the gear is usually in better condition than what the rating might suggest.

Another issue with buying used lenses, as compared to buying factory refurbished, is the question of fungus and mold. How dirty is the used lens on the inside? You cannot know I doubt if used dealers take apart all of their lenses and clean them. A factory refurbished lens has at least been hand tested and inspected. i cannot say if that means cleaning the internals, but Canon’s Refurbished Store offers you the same one year warranty as brand new gear. I have gotten lucky and picked up a couple of good L Series lenses from their.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

kvbarkley — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 14:50:30 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:

Because the AF sensor is receiving twice as much light with an f/2.8 lens compared to an f/4 lens, the AF sensor can do its’ job more easily anc accurately. An f/4 lens let’s in twice as much light as an f/5.6 lens, which is where you are at over most of the zoom range of the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens.

Actually, I believe it is the narrower depth of field that helps autofocus. The control system can get confused with a wide zone that is in focus.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 15:17:28 GMT

@kvbarkley wrote:
@Waddizzle wrote:

Because the AF sensor is receiving twice as much light with an f/2.8 lens compared to an f/4 lens, the AF sensor can do its’ job more easily anc accurately. An f/4 lens let’s in twice as much light as an f/5.6 lens, which is where you are at over most of the zoom range of the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM lens.

Actually, I believe it is the narrower depth of field that helps autofocus. The control system can get confused with a wide zone that is in focus.

That is an interesting point. But you are introducing a new variable, the accuracy of the AF motors in the lens.

I would think that having a wider depth of field should make focusing easier, which probably explains why Rebels can take such great photos on bright, sunny days with a kit lens. For example, the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM is often accused of being soft wide open, but sharpens up when you stop it down.

I think the problem is that the AF motors have just enough backlash to cause the OOF images wide open., It as if the motors do not stop moving as fast as the camera wants, and they over/under shoot the mark. Of course, this small error disappears when you stop the lens down. This amount of slop also make it not worth the trouble to do AFMA with most consumer lenses.

As far as light reaching the sensor goes, I once ran into an interesting situation when I was playing around with lenses on an indoor tripod with my Rebel T5. I was comparing how well different camera/lens combos would focus in low light, as I dimmed the lights in the room. I reached a point where the 18-55 kit lens could not focus without an assist, but the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM could focus. All I did was swap lenses. One lens was f/1.8, and the other was f/5.6, because the lens was zoomed to 55mm.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:13:48 GMT

" I will change to all focus points."

I would suggest using just the center point especially at first. Walk before you run. Keep as much as simple as possible until you are very familiar with it. The other points may and will select things you may not know and they may not be what you wanted.

The reason to use Av is simple. The most important thing in photography is exposure. You have to get it right. With Av mode you select an aperture which you decide is best for the situation. The camera will now select the fastest SS possible to get the exposure correct. If on the other hand you use Tv, you may not have enough aperture to get the exposure right. Again Av is going to get you a shot but keep in mind if conditions are too dim the action might be too fast. At least you got a shot but this would indicate you need a faster lens. Hence the 70-200mm f2.8.

ALso keep in mind all camera/lens combos have their limits. There might be a time where there isn't a good solution, that's just the way it is. I have never used a 60D so I don't know how many AF points it has or what type but I have no doubts it can do the job if you do your part. Within reasonable limits of course. I have shot sports and all kinds of stuff with cameras way less capable than the 60D. Once upon a time we didn't have AF and ASA (ISO) 400 was considered fast

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:24:32 GMT

"I believe it is the narrower depth of field that helps autofocus"

I really doubt that. A narrow DOF's only effect is less room for error. All lenses AF wide open, that is what helps AF speed. Remember the lens does not focus at all the camera does.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:31:25 GMT

“ALso keep in mind all camera/lens combos have their limits. There might be a time where there isn't a good solution, that's just the way it is. I have never used a 60D so I don't know how many AF points it has or what type but I have no doubts it can do the job if you do your part.”

Enabling all of the AF points when using AI Servo is the best way to do it on the 9 point AF systems. You do not get a tracking display, so you do not know which AF point has the focus. I would compare it to using the “ring of fire” AF on a 1D Mark IV.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:58:23 GMT

"Enabling all of the AF points when using AI Servo is the best way to do it..."

Perhaps but not for a beginner. Keeping it simple at first is better. Center AF point and One shot. It is still my preferred way to shoot sports even with a 1DX. The number one or two best way is not camera related at all. It is a good working knowledge of the sport. This way you are not at the mercy of what happens next and a whole array of AF points trying to guess at what is going on. The first most important thing, BTW, doesn't involve the camera either, it is location where you are shooting from.

I am not a 'spray and pray' guy, perhaps because of my early years experience. But, whatever works for you!

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Waddizzle — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 10:31:22 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Enabling all of the AF points when using AI Servo is the best way to do it..."

Center AF point and One shot. It is still my preferred way to shoot sports even with a 1DX.

I am not a 'spray and pray' guy, perhaps because of my early years experience. But, whatever works for you!

I have found that using One Shot to photograph moving subjects almost always results in shots that are not tack sharp. Why? Because of the small delay between locking focus and fully pressing the shutter.

The subject can move just enough to be at the edge of the Depth of Field, or even move out of it. Here is an example.

[EDIT - This photo needs a little explanation. These runners are not in a pack. They are running single file on a curve, and the runner in white has a considerable lead. The girls in red are entering the curve. The girl in green is at the middle of the curve.

The girl in white is exiting the curve. I used One Shot focusing with the center AF to focus on the girl in white. By the time the.shutter fired, the plane of focus is between the lead runner and the trailing group.

The girl in white is exiting the front edge of the DOF, and the other runners are just outside the rear of the DOF. The girl in green may actually be entering the rear of the DOF.]

Using AI Servo means the camera keeps focus tracking right up to the moment when I fully press the shutter.

[EDIT - The photo below is a textbook example for using AI Servo focusing. The subjects are moving in such a way that the distance to the camera is constantly changing, which is the same scenario as the above photo..

By using AI Servo, the camera is able to keep the runners in focus. Keeper rate of shots in focus is nearly 100%. Instead of looking for shots in focus, I am looking for shots with the best composition, such as when the runners are in similar body positions.]

The only delay in taking the above shot is the shutter delay itself. Using AI Servo is called focus tracking, not spray and pray. But do as you say, go with whatever works for you.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:49:03 GMT

"Using AI Servo is called focus tracking, not spray and pray."

It is when you are using AI servo and 10fps shooting. You are just hoping one shot will be in good focus instead of making sure one shot is in good focus.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

bertotr — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 03:06:54 GMT

Again thank you all for your recommendations. I only have 9 AF points on my camera. The best solution is a 70-200 lens F2.8. Is there any difference between the three generation of F2.8 cannon 70-200 lenses? Are the new Sigma or Tamron 70-200 F2.8 lens viable alternatives due to cost with almost same image quality?

Thank you very much,

Robert

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Tronhard — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:52:40 GMT

@bertotr wrote:
Again thank you all for your recommendations. I only have 9 AF points on my camera. The best solution is a 70-200 lens F2.8. Is there any difference between the three generation of F2.8 cannon 70-200 lenses? Are the new Sigma or Tamron 70-200 F2.8 lens viable alternatives due to cost with almost same image quality?

Thank you very much,

Robert

Hi Robert:

I have Canon 60Ds and they are still among my favourite bodies to use, even after 9 years.

I have the 70-200 f2.8 MkII L and felt no need to upgrade to the MkIII - the lens is indeed a brilliant one and should render great results and the difference you would pay for the MkIII does not (to me) justify the difference in cost. One thing I will mention - it feels like it weighs a ton at roughly 1.5kg (3.3lb) - I use a battery grip to balance things out a bit and it works. I have no idea of your level of muscular endurance, but I know that I do weights to allow me to use a lens of its weight for extended periods and keep a steady hand.

In the end I also got the EF 70-200 F4 MkII L, which I personally found to be a good combination between light weight (it is 45% lighter than the f2.8!!), the f4 gave me a bit more DoF and it has 5 stops of stabilization to offset the loss of light ( a boast that seems to be born out by 3rd party tests) - it's a beautiful lens.

Just to completely ruin your day and get accused of muddying the waters I also use for birds (that can be surprisingly similar as targets - fast and small and oftern in dim light) the EF 70-300 f4.5-5.6 IS II USM that comes in about the same weight as the 70-200 f4 lens but gives you 50% more reach, or the absolutely fabulous Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L which is about 33% lighter than the 70-200 f2.8 L and is tack sharp.

These longer lenses really come into their own when you have something like decent light, and I don't know the conditions under which you shoot, so I add that rider.

Edited with corrections in bold and red

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

RobertTheFat — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:54:51 GMT

You do mean 70-200 in both cases, right?

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

ebiggs1 — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:34:52 GMT

"Is there any difference between the three generation of F2.8 cannon 70-200 lenses?"

Yes there is. The big difference between version III and II is the lens coating. This may not sound like a big deal but it is. However, it is not big enough for a version II owner to buy the III model, IMHO. You do want to look for a version II over the first model if you can but in reality any of Canon's 70-200mil zooms are fantastic. That statement includes the f4 models, too.

If you decide to go off brand the one to get at this moment is the Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD G2 Lens.

"I only have 9 AF points on my camera."

This is not a problem as I suggested you just use the center AF point. Turn the others off. If you don't use proper camera settings the best 70-200mm lens in the world will not get you great pictures.

Re: Canon 60 Lens Recommendation

Tronhard — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:28:41 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
You do mean 70-200 in both cases, right?

Hi Robert et al.

Robert thank you for pickup up my slip-up.. Several distractions at that time.

Yes I DO mean the 70-200 MkII and MkIII not 28-200!!!