topic Re: Lenses for 80D!! in EF & RF Lenses

Lenses for 80D!!

mishkalidas — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 09:57:49 GMT

i guys. Coming from a 1200D with 18-55mm kit lens, I'd like to update now that I have the chance. I use my camera mostly for travel, landscape, street, and portrait photography. I also like doing food photography, always shoot in manual. What I'm looking for in a new camera is overall better performance, focusing and low-light abilities. I also want a vary-angle screen, as I really miss that right now.

The 80D seems like a good choice, but I've been having a hard time with lenses. Particularly whether I should get a zoom or a couple of primes. So far, these are my options, but I'm not sure whether they're any good or not:

Canon 80D with:

--> Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM

--> Canon EF-S 35mm f/2.8 Macro IS STM

--> Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:30:41 GMT

I am a big fan of the 80D. If I were to buy one the choice of a lens would be between two. The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens or the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon. Both outstanding. One is a bit longer and the other a bit faster, trade off.

The primes you listed are all OK lenses but they are so much more limiting to use than zooms like I recommended. Just like "always shoot in manual". The 80D has some great abilities and while manual mode can do a good job so can the other modes. Manual mode has its place and the others have theirs.

The 80D is a great camera and deserves great glass!

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

RobertTheFat — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:58:11 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
I am a big fan of the 80D. If I were to buy one the choice of a lens would be between two. The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens or the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon. Both outstanding. One is a bit longer and the other a bit faster, trade off.

The primes you listed are all OK lenses but they are so much more limiting to use than zooms like I recommended. Just like "always shoot in manual". The 80D has some great abilities and while manual mode can do a good job so can the other modes. Manual mode has its place and the others have theirs.

The 80D is a great camera and deserves great glass!

I agree with Ernie's recommendation of the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM and with his opinion on primes vs zooms. I'm not familiar with the Sigma he mentions, but it's enough shorter at the long end that I'd go with the Canon 17-55.

If you really think you need a macro lens, I'd go with the Canon 60mm f/2.8 Macro. I don't recall ever using it myself, but my wife has had one for years and likes it a lot.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Waddizzle — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 19:45:11 GMT

All agree that the 80D is a great camera. I recommend buying it from the Canon Refurbished store with the upgraded EF-S 18-55mm lens. It is almost a free give away and a very good lens, especially for auto focus tracking when recording video.

The EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 is great lens, but not a must have at this point. I think other stuff should have a higher priority, like a professional grade tripod and a quality bag to carry your gear and accessories. Figure spending $200 on a tripod and almost as much on a bag. You will want a tripod for food shots.

If you want the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, then go for it. It is a solid investment. It will make a good starter portrait lens. Buy it in the two lens kit with the EF-S 10-18mm lens!

I recommend a macro lens, too. I say go for one of Canon’s 100mm macro lenses. My son uses a tilt shift lens to photograph plates of food. He loves it because he can get up close and get the entire plate in focus in one shot.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Tronhard — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:17:03 GMT

@mishkalidas wrote:
I use my camera mostly for travel, landscape, street, and portrait photography. I also like doing food photography,

The list of the types of things you like to photograph are quite diverse:and I am curious as to what you will produce: i.e. are you going to produce images for social media, UHD screens, small prints or large high resolution prints. The reason I ask is because the larger the image, particulary in print the better your lenses should be.

If you are not going for large, hi-res prints, and unless you want to carry a bunch of prime lenses I would personally stick to zooms.

In the range of walk-around lenses, good for travel and street photography as well as shooting your food I have several suggetions for you. The following sample images are all taken hand-held

As has been already suggested the 17-55mm f2.8 lens is among the best EF-S zoom in the range of walk-around lenses.

This is taken with the 17-55 on a Canon 600D

Another great lens is the EF-S 15-85mm, a wider range at each end and it is an excellent lens - it has been called the secret L series lens, although it cannot claim that monicer because is it nether and EF lens nor weather resistant (to my knowledge no EF-S lens is).It is also a bit more compact than the 17-55 and lighter too.

This image is taken with the 15-85mm, using a Canon 60D

If you want to have more reach in one lens then you might want to consider the latest iteration of the 18-135mm lens, it got a wider reach, but has smaller aptertures than the 17-55mm - the small aperture means a greater depth of field and for food work close up that is likely not a bad thing unless you want to focus on one tiny element on the plate.

This image is taken with the 18-135mm and the 80D.

For a longer reach, i.e. telephoto, then I would recommend the Canon EF 70-300 F4.0-5.6 IS II USM. For the price it is an excellent lens with a great reach. I use if for more than just wildlife, I have also used it for landscape work and portraits. For an exhaustive article on this lens see the thread on Canon 70-300 Non L lenses. HERE

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:36:25 GMT

Trevor,

On your sea scape have you ever used luminosity masking with blending modes to adjust the image? Nice shots, BTW.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Tronhard — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:56:41 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Trevor,
On your sea scape have you ever used luminosity masking with blending modes to adjust the image? Nice shots, BTW.

Hi Ernie:

Thanks for you kind words and suggestion. Nope, I don't know how to do that! My PP skills are fairly basic I'm afraid. Perhaps I will learn that in the SIT course!

That said the image I did post looks a bit flat to me. It might be an early shot - perhaps this is better:

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Natasha8 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:41:26 GMT

@Tronhard wrote:
@myfedloan wrote:
I use my camera mostly for travel, landscape, street, and portrait photography. I also like doing food photography,
The list of the types of things you like to photograph are quite diverse:and I am curious as to what you will produce: i.e. are you going to produce images for social media, UHD screens, small prints or large high resolution prints. The reason I ask is because the larger the image, particulary in print the better your lenses should be.

If you are not going for large, hi-res prints, and unless you want to carry a bunch of prime lenses I would personally stick to zooms.

In the range of walk-around lenses, good for travel and street photography as well as shooting your food I have several suggetions for you. The following sample images are all taken hand-held

As has been already suggested the 17-55mm f2.8 lens is among the best EF-S zoom in the range of walk-around lenses.
This is taken with the 17-55 on a Canon 600D

Another great lens is the EF-S 15-85mm, a wider range at each end and it is an excellent lens - it has been called the secret L series lens, although it cannot claim that monicer because is it nether and EF lens nor weather resistant (to my knowledge no EF-S lens is).It is also a bit more compact than the 17-55 and lighter too.

This image is taken with the 15-85mm, using a Canon 60D

If you want to have more reach in one lens then you might want to consider the latest iteration of the 18-135mm lens, it got a wider reach, but has smaller aptertures than the 17-55mm - the small aperture means a greater depth of field and for food work close up that is likely not a bad thing unless you want to focus on one tiny element on the plate.

This image is taken with the 18-135mm and the 80D.

For a longer reach, i.e. telephoto, then I would recommend the Canon EF 70-300 F4.0-5.6 IS II USM. For the price it is an excellent lens with a great reach. I use if for more than just wildlife, I have also used it for landscape work and portraits. For an exhaustive article on this lens see the thread on Canon 70-300 Non L lenses. HERE

The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens or the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon. Both outstanding. One is a bit longer and the other a bit faster, trade off.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:45:49 GMT

"The reason I ask is because the larger the image, particulary in print the better your lenses should be."

While I would not dispute having the best quality lenses at all times, the sensor size is a bigger factor if you constantly need to make larger prints.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 15:01:37 GMT

There is a class of lenses Canon makes, some pretty long in the tooth, that are next step upgrades from the standard kit lenses. The Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens is one of those lenses. There is no doubt they are better than the kit offerings and Trevor always seems to pull the best from them. However, they are not "L" class and no where near pro quality or build.

One of the better, IMHO, lenses in this class is the new Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens. I admit I do not have one because I don't have a camera that it will mount on but I have friends who do have it.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

kvbarkley — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 15:16:02 GMT

"The reason I ask is because the larger the image, particulary in print the better your lenses should be."

Roger Cicala just put this one to bed:

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/

Check out the appendix.

TLDR:

The lens and sensor both contribute, and a lens has to be particulary bad such that improving it makes a difference.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:13:23 GMT

I have always said MTF charts are nearly useless in the real world of photography. They simply do not tell the true story. Unless you like taking photos of MTF charts.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

kvbarkley — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 16:28:06 GMT

While MTF charts might not tell the whold story, MTF's *are* photography.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Tronhard — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 18:32:08 GMT

I totally agree that the end image quality is a function of both the lens and the camera together - I would have thought that is just common sense. However the investment in both has to be within the limits of budget, but taking into account that lens value and longevity often outlast camera bodies.

To be clear, I have asked questions about image size because I often see people outlaying large amounts of cash for very expensive cameras and lenses when, in fact, they are going to post to social media.

I recently posted an image taken by the venerable Canon D30 - that's a 19 year old camera using a 3.2MP sensor, with the EF17-40L lens attached. To jog your memory here it is again:

For posting on social media or even for moderate prints I think this is quite acceptable.

If however I was going to print this out to a really big size, say 24" x 36" I would probably be pushing it a bit, although Michael Reichmann seemed happy in his Luminous Landscape review to go pretty close to that. In his 2000 review he experimented to see if the D30 was as good as film in producing large prints. He used the same lens (100-400L) on a top SLR and the D30, scanned the SLR photos with the best available scanner and printed the outputs from both on a high quality printer. The D30 was significantly better, an assessment that was backed up by other authoritative opinions. So if one can get a decent image from a 3.2Mp, 19 year old camera, I think the 80D could be considered already acceptable for most purposes at 24MP. So we came down to the lens.

I always go back to asking questions about output - surely that is the ultimate purpose of taking the image in the first place; but I always explain why I am asking the question. In this case the camera is already purchased. A very capable unit with a crop sensor. So I needed to know the focal range and the quality and type of output required to establish the type of lens and a cost/benefit relationship. I stick to my guns that posting on Facebook on on a home TV is less demanding than say printing on high quality large-format prints.

In this focal range I have shot with a wide selection of lenses from the relatively humble (but to me good) kit lens (18-135), through the excellent 15-85 and 17-55, to the L lenses 17-40 and 24-105. My experience is that a lens does not require an L rating to be great glass: as I understand it the quality of glass in EF-S lenses is comparable to that of the more expensive units for most amateur and shooters' purposes, but they are not designed for the rigors of a professional - not as solidly built, nor are they environmentally resistant. For most people that will not be an issue: it certainly is for a professional who had to deliver under almost any condition. The cheaper lenses represent decent value for money for most purposes, and certainly for digital and small print output. The question always becomes cloudy for enthusiasts who either produced high-quality art of a size, or who just pixel peep, but they do not necessarily have the budget of a professional. I guess the aspiring student who seeks a profession would come into that category too - which is why is usually ask their intentions.

Personally, with all of these lenses I get results that I am happy with for my purposes (which do not normally include large, detailed prints). So my point is that these lenses are capable of producing results that have produced positive reactions on this site from photographers I respect. The rest comes down to how the gear is used and you can't buy that, you have to learn it.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:02:04 GMT

"... MTF charts might not tell the whold story,..."

They are misleading and most people don't even know what they are looking at or how to interpret it. The bad thing is when you do understand one, it has little to no relationship to how the lens performs in the real world use. An unneeded part of photography for sure.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:03:58 GMT

"Personally, with all of these lenses I get results that I am happy with for my purposes ..."

This I am on board 100% the rest, Trevor, I might have to disagree a bit here and there.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Tronhard — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 00:13:53 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
"Personally, with all of these lenses I get results that I am happy with for my purposes ..."

This I am on board 100% the rest, Trevor, I might have to disagree a bit here and there.

Ha! It would be a boring choir if we all sang without a descant!

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

kvbarkley — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 12:48:37 GMT

I know I am getting close to deceased equine abuse, here - so feel free to move on, but I just wanted to point out that more complete MTF charts can pretty much tell you everything about a lens.

Roger Cicala has a more complete set here:

stopping down your lens

And shows that they reveal a *lot* about the character of the lens, including Bokeh.

After all, if MTF charts were useless, then corrections like Digital Lighting Optimiser would not work.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

ebiggs1 — Fri, 25 Oct 2019 14:27:28 GMT

If you like reading MTF charts, have at it.

Re: Lenses for 80D!!

Waddizzle — Sat, 26 Oct 2019 00:52:36 GMT

@Tronhard wrote:

I totally agree that the end image quality is a function of both the lens and the camera together - I would have thought that is just common sense. However the investment in both has to be within the limits of budget, but taking into account that lens value and longevity often outlast camera bodies.
.

I recently posted an image taken by the venerable Canon D30 - that's a 19 year old camera using a 3.2MP sensor, with the EF17-40L lens attached. To jog your memory here it is again:
For posting on social media or even for moderate prints I think this is quite acceptable.

Is that a flywheel for an air compressor?