topic Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm in EF & RF Lenses

Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Thu, 23 May 2019 04:22:07 GMT

I've been using my Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II for years now and it's always been my favorite lens for sports. In my last couple outings, I noticed that I was getting a lot of blurry shots and I now realize that they are all my shots taken at full 200mm zoom. Is it common to have focus go bad just at the long range of a lens? Seems the same as usual at say 170mm and under. Could something like this be fixed with AF Microadjustment? In these cases, nothing is in focus (so it's not focusing on something else). Do I need to take this in for servicing?

Thanks!

Gary

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

Waddizzle — Thu, 23 May 2019 09:47:39 GMT

Post some sample shots along with shooting data, camera and lens settings, and shooting conditions. It is quite possible that you had a perfect storm of settings and conditions, and it was just coincidence that all of the bad shots were at the long end of the lens.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Thu, 23 May 2019 12:03:11 GMT

Thanks Waddizzle,

These were taken with a Canon 1DX, handheld with IS turned on using AI Servo Mode. RAW and converted with the same default Lightroom options. Looking at the Preview, I can't tell if the focus issue is very evident. These were exported to a 5M limit to post here but I can otherwise upload full size images to my Flickr account and link them here.

Thanks!

Gary

At 200mm

At 120mm

At 70mm

Another at 200mm

And this one at 175mm

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 May 2019 14:05:39 GMT

" Do I need to take this in for servicing?"

First, thought is, no. Second, thought is, yes, because you will always wonder. If any OOF shot you have you will always wonder if it is the lens. Most of the time these situations are user error, not gear.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Thu, 23 May 2019 14:30:17 GMT

I don't think it's quite evident from these pictures posted here (limited to 5M and unable to really magnify). I'll take some more test shots and post. I've been taking these kind of photos for years with the same equipment and there has been some definite change in the last couple weeks shooting in the long end of the lens. It's not an intermittent problem - it literally cannot take a single in-focus picture of anything at 200mm.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Thu, 23 May 2019 14:55:30 GMT

To test, put it on tripod. You can't do a test hand holding it.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Thu, 23 May 2019 14:57:00 GMT

Thanks! will do.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

Waddizzle — Fri, 24 May 2019 00:56:38 GMT

@garymui wrote:
I don't think it's quite evident from these pictures posted here (limited to 5M and unable to really magnify). I'll take some more test shots and post. I've been taking these kind of photos for years with the same equipment and there has been some definite change in the last couple weeks shooting in the long end of the lens. It's not an intermittent problem - it literally cannot take a single in-focus picture of anything at 200mm.

There is an AF setting in your camera called Image Priority, which is designed for use with AI Servo mode. Actually, there are two of them, 1st Image and 2nd Image Prirority. Image Priority gives control over whether or not the camera will wait to lock focus before it fires the shutter, which it always does in One Shot mode.

You can adjust Image Priority for “Shutter Priority” or “Focus Priority”, or for some gray area in between. Focus Priority means the camera will wait for an AF point to lock focus before firing the shutter. Shutter Priority means the shutter will fire when you press the shutter, focus lock or not. In most cameras, the default setting is the gray area between the two extremes.

I set my cameras for “Focus Priority” for both 1st and 2nd Images when in Continuous Drive mode. I see no reason to fire the shutter if the camera does not have a focus lock. With fast focusing lenses, any drop in frame rate is negligible to non-existent. I mostly shoot with an EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM and an EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM for sports.

If you like to “zone focus” before firing the shutter, then setting the 1st Image Priority to Shutter Priority would be the preferred setting. The above shot was using IS Mode 1. This next shot was taken using IS Mode 2.

There is more room for operator error than people realize. On the first lap, I had used IS Mode 1, because I was shooting high jumpers and not panning at all.

Notice how soft this photo looks compared to the previous image. I tried to catch them in the middle of the turn as they were more or less coming straight at me, but the shot is still a bit soft.

The moral of this story is simple. The camera will do exactly what you ask it to do. Make sure you ask the right questions.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Fri, 24 May 2019 03:13:54 GMT

Thanks for that info. Haven't tried that but also haven't changed those settings so while I don't think it will resolve this issue, I will use it going forward for my track photos! And as a NY track parent, I always appreciate photos of Katelyn Touhy in action! Once Flickr comes back up, here are my photos of the Girls Steeplechase race at Loucks - https://flic.kr/s/aHskRjCDUr

When I took the 200mm photos above, it was in AI Servo mode but I basically took it like a One shot photo. Press, focus lock, focus indicators light up, and one press shot. I'll take some more test shots both in AI Servo and One Shot and see if it makes any difference.

But thanks for your advice on this!

Gary

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 14:48:02 GMT

" I'll take some more test shots both in AI Servo and One Shot ..."

I always tell new folks to master One Shot before you explore AI-servo. If you don't AI-servo can cause more problem than it helps. I really doubt any of the example shots displayed here required AI-servo.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Fri, 24 May 2019 15:05:15 GMT

I'm not a professional photographer but been having taking sports photos for my kids' teams for a while. Those test shots didn't require AI Servo but I wanted to show examples of where it was failing to focus. Here are some photos from the race where I realized what seemed to be the problem because all my 200mm shots were blurry (whether subjects were standing still or moving).

20190517 - BHHS Track - Westchester County Championships - Girls Steeple

Flickr is going through maintenance now so I apologize if this link doesn't work or is slow...

I'm going to take some One Shot test photos to see if the problem is limited to AI Servo mode.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 15:41:56 GMT

"Here are some photos from the race ..."

I looked at your shots on flckr. Here comes the photo critic! There is always a critic, isn't there?

You have some good shots and you have some not so good shots. Some shots could be fantastic if you had a post editor and did some selective processing and cropping. None fo the ones I looked at required AI-servo, so don't use it.

Tip:

Never cut a person in half, if you do crop it out in post. Make sure the main most important thing is the main most important thing. Most of all keep in mind the 3 most important things in photography. Location, location and location! Where you shoot from. Close is usually always better. Location can be part of the issue you are seeing.

Good luck and keep shooting.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Fri, 24 May 2019 16:20:14 GMT

"None fo the ones I looked at required AI-servo, so don't use it."

If people are racing by and I'm wanting to keep a particular subject in focus as they approach, go by and go past me, wouldn't that be a case for using AI Servo?

Thanks for the feedback on photos. I do select / crop photos so maybe I just need to be better at that. Can you give an example of a bad one? Perhaps some of it is in conflicts of what I'm trying to shoot for. In some cases they are to get cool shots, others are to get more people into the shot (like for tagging multiple people in an Instagram post, and others are just to capture the race (e.g. bad, far away shot but I want to see later what place my daughter was in).

Also, I'm a little limited in where I shoot from because I'm just a parent and often have to stay behind the fences and often behind the 'real' photographers 🙂

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 18:55:14 GMT

"If people are racing by and I'm wanting to keep a particular subject in focus as they approach, go by and go past me, wouldn't that be a case for using AI Servo?"

No, it isn't, One shot will do and probably do it better.

AI-Servo tracks focus on moving subjects so as your subject moves closer or moves further away. Just think if your SS is 1/500 or perhaps even faster the subject is not moving as far as the camera is concerned.

This photo could be a candidate for AI-servo but I doubt the runner is going to be faster than your camera can focus in One shot.

I would not use AI-servo for this photo at all.

Great photos are made in post not in the camera. And, where you shoot from is by far the most important thing there is. Why do you think "the 'real' photographers " make you stay back?

" I'm just a parent and often have to stay behind the fences ..." You have hit on a huge pet peeve of mine with that. I do lots of school work and I run into other"pro" photographers who think the Sun and Moon rise and set on them. Well it doesn't. I admit I have free range of anywhere I want to go and I understand you can't have a few dozen parents running around everywhere but you are at a distinct disadvantage.

What are you doing your post editing with?

This is a nice shot. It tells you all you need to know.

This isn't. What is it? What is going on? Cut off feet. Cut off people in half.

Is the young lady in the center the subject?

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 19:33:23 GMT

Keep in mind great photographers never show the bad ones. And, you are after quality not quantity.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

garymui — Fri, 24 May 2019 21:47:04 GMT

On AI Servo, I lock on the subject and as they run toward, past and away from me, I keep the focus lock on them and fully press to capture shots or hold down for continuous shots. 1DX focus indicators show me what it keeps in focus and I don't have to keep resetting focus with One Shot. In the example you suggested not using AI-Servo, I take several as she goes over the hurdle, lands, and keeps going. I wouldn't want to keep re-establishing focus along the way, right?

On location, most of the photographers are pretty nice and some have encouraged me to join them. It's the occassional meet directors and coaches that don't allow non-credentialled photographers to come out that keep me behind the fences.

And on the bad photo, yeah, I gotta little quick on cropping / editing (ignoring the quality over quantity argument). That young girl is the subject and I actually cropped some of the other people out to draw attention to her. I know her in particular and just tried to grab more frames to share later. Maybe not the best job but I at least cropped out the guy on the right who was scratching his nose.

Travelig tonight and have Section Championships tomorrow so won't have time to tripod-test my lens. But thanks for the advice on the lens and photos!

And I capture with my 1DX / 70-200 f/2,8L IS II and use Lightroom 6.13 (desktop version) for post.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 21:47:36 GMT

Obviously you can't get a photo like this one if you are not allowed on the field. Location is key. Perhaps you could ask permission to go onto the field. If you get it, make sure you respect others especially if there are paid photographers. Do not touch or move anything.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

ebiggs1 — Fri, 24 May 2019 22:01:56 GMT

"That young girl is the subject and I actually cropped some of the other people out to draw attention to her."

And you know her parents, not you?, will probably love it. I have to mention the girl that is jumping up in the in the line up shot is priceless. As is the girl that is running up from behind. It is a really good shot.

"And I capture with my 1DX / 70-200 f/2,8L IS II and use Lightroom 6.13 (desktop version) for post."

That is almost exactly what I have. I never use AI-servo if One shot will do the job. Not saying there isn't a situation where AI-servo isn't the bets choice but your 1DX should be able to AF faster than kids can run. Depending on where you set priority, AI-servo may fire when the subject is not in focus.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

Waddizzle — Sat, 25 May 2019 11:14:34 GMT

"If people are racing by and I'm wanting to keep a particular subject in focus as they approach, go by and go past me, wouldn't that be a case for using AI Servo?"

It would depend on the drive mode. For Single Shot drive mode I would be inclined to use One Shot autofocus. For Continuous drive mode I would definitely use AI Servo autofocus.

Re: Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II not sharp at 200mm

wq9nsc — Sat, 25 May 2019 11:14:42 GMT

ebiggs1 wrote, "Keep in mind great photographers never show the bad ones."

But it is a good idea to keep those bad ones in mind as a learning experience. I printed the photo below and it is on the wall above the PC I use for image processing as a reminder to me. This COULD have been one of the best images I captured of my daughter all season IF dad had been fully focused mentally on the task at hand instead of also talking with a coach about some needed photos of other players. Because of this lapse instead of following the play and properly framing the shot, I ended up with a nice jumping photo of a partially headless daughter from trying to react at the last second. Just like the players, the person documenting the action needs to keep his head fully in the game and this is my reminder which will stay in its place on the wall until I make an even more stupid error.

It is the missed opportunities like this one that will provide an excellent education. My daughter had an excellent freshman year on the varsity squad breaking the existing school single season scoring record by 9 goals and being unanimously selected for first team all-conference. Dad needs to do better next season 😞

Rodger