topic Re: Help. What lense to buy. in EF & RF Lenses

Help. What lense to buy.

Marc38 — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:01:41 GMT

Hi all and thank you in advance for your help! I want to buy a new lense for my dad. He has the cannon 550d. He loves wildlife n taking photos of birds etc. Money is not important it just has to be a really good lense for the job. As im sure you can tell i know nothing about any of this and would really appreciate some pearls of wisdom from the experts! I tink he has a lense that goes 150-500 a sigma i think. I can find out.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Marc38 — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:04:05 GMT

Slight error i just found out some better detail. Dad's camera is a cannon EOS 550D & the zoom lens he has is a SIGMA DG 50--500mm

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

cicopo — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:48 GMT

That's a rather good lens for it era but the current Sigma 150-600 Contemporary is better in many ways & has Image stabilization. Tamrom also makes a 150-600 which gets good reviews Another feature the 50-500 DIDN'T have that hurt it's AF performance was it did not have a focus limiter switch. That feature helps the lens achieve AF faster.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 00:45:48 GMT

@Marc38 wrote:
Hi all and thank you in advance for your help! I want to buy a new lense for my dad. He has the cannon 550d. He loves wildlife n taking photos of birds etc. Money is not important it just has to be a really good lense for the job. As im sure you can tell i know nothing about any of this and would really appreciate some pearls of wisdom from the experts! I tink he has a lense that goes 150-500 a sigma i think. I can find out.

If money is “not important”, then go for the more current lens, the Sigma 150-600 “C”, with a Sigma dock. It is a WAY better lens than the much older design of the 150-500. Besides, Sigma released a firmware update for the 150-600 “C”, which totally rewrote the AF firmware, and they really NAILED it.

Just be aware that if you buy a third party lens, Canon’s DPP software will not provide lens correction. You should expect some noticeable vignetting with 150-500, and a bit less with the 150-600. Software like Adobe Lightroom cleans it up, though.

As for the Sigma 50-500mm lens, I think I would pass on it. The focal range, 10:1, is too wide for image quality not to have been compromised to achieve that wide of a ratio.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

ebiggs1 — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 15:14:19 GMT

Here's the facts, the Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens is a pretty decent lens in its own right. It gained a love it or hate it persona from the folks that own one. I had one for a short time and it is what it is a big super zoom. If that is what you want, it worked for you. Not me. I still have the lesser 150-500mm copy of that lens. He will not see a huge improvement with it and any of the newer super zooms. But that said the newer current lenses are better. Why would they not be?

The Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens does everything it is supposed to. Decent AF, decent IQ. Well controlled CA for something in this class. Nothing LR can't handle. The downside is mostly the fact it doesn't go to 500mm in FL. It is closer to 450mm in my tests. Why do I make a big deal about that? Because the newest model out the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 does extend to nearly 600mm. Your Dad will see a 150mm benefit from this lens over his current Siggy. Another plus on its side, it is the sharpest of the 150-600's available right now.

So bottom line I would get him the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2. While on upgrading his gear, you should really consider the camera, too. The T2i is getting aged. The 80D will be a nice leg up for him. Keep in mind on an 80D that big Tammy will act like nearly 1000mm. That is serious FL in anybodies book.

Make sure the lens you buy him has the G2 in its name. (Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2)

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

ebiggs1 — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 15:38:27 GMT

BTW, the Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lens' nickname is "the Bigma".

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

cicopo — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 16:20:56 GMT

I had a very good copy of the Bigma way back. Sold it because it couldn't AF fast enough for my R/C use.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Marc38 — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 12:09:04 GMT

Thanku for all your advice. Some good choices. I do rather like the idea of an upgrade to the base. Sterling idea. Will check it all out!

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Marc38 — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:35:50 GMT

I wondered if i could afford to move my dad up on the eos dslr camera whether no matter what base i buy he could still use the sigma 50-500 lense he has. Or if u move toward the professional range it makes his exsisting redundant? Thanks

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:31:02 GMT

@Marc38 wrote:
I wondered if i could afford to move my dad up on the eos dslr camera whether no matter what base i buy he could still use the sigma 50-500 lense he has. Or if u move toward the professional range it makes his exsisting redundant? Thanks

The 18MP EOS 550D was, and still it, a pretty good camera body. The fact that it is till working so well after all of this time is one proof of that fact. Many of the Rebels, or ##0D models, available today are not quite as well built, are do not offer significantly improved performance.

Most of the current lineup should be regarded as replacements, not upgrades. Most have slightly better ISO ranges, but the results will be comparable to the 550D for all but the highest ISO shooting scenarios. Anything shot at ISO 800, or lower, will be arguably identical in image quality.

If you want to pursue an upgrade in an APS-C body, then I would point at the two top models, the 80D and 7D Mark II.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

TCampbell — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:39:17 GMT

Sigma makes a 150-600mm "Sport" version and also a "Contemporary" version. Since you said "Money is not important it just has to be a really good lens for the job"... the "sport" version is the higher cost lens (about $2k) but is the higher performing version. The "contemorary" version costs about half the price ... but doesn't perform quite as well as the sport.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 08:51:46 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
Sigma makes a 150-600mm "Sport" version and also a "Contemporary" version. Since you said "Money is not important it just has to be a really good lens for the job"... the "sport" version is the higher cost lens (about $2k) but is the higher performing version. The "contemorary" version costs about half the price ... but doesn't perform quite as well as the sport.

A year ago, I would have probably conceded that you are correct, that the “S” has better image quality than the “C”.

The “C” lens was slow to focus, a bit soft above 500mm, and a bit loud when focusing. I did not carry it that much, and had been considering selling it, or passing it on to one of my sons. The question of which son is all that stopped me.

But, Sigma released a firmware update, which supposedly contained a complete rewrite of the AF system. I installed it, andI can tell you that that “C” is totally different lens. Not only is it sharper, but it focuses faster and quieter. Plus, the OS system seems to do what it is supposed to do, instead of engaging in a tug-of-war with the camera controlling the AF. I can turn on the OS, and actually use it. instead of leaving it turned off all of the time.

I have no idea how they were able to make those improvements strictly through firmware, but Sigma has really nailed it. I would hope that they may have released something similar for the “S” version of the lens, or maybe it is in the works.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

ebiggs1 — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:04:40 GMT

I own both versions of the big Siggy super zooms. The "C" and the "S". There is no debate the "S" is a better lens. You may debate whether it is worth the additional cost better but not that is it isn't better.

Also there is no way a firmware update can make a lens sharper. It can correct OOF conditions or mis-focus conditions, etc. A lens is what it is. Unless it is physically altered it is what it is and will always be.

I do agree the latest firmware update was/is worthwhile. I suspect it effected the OS system. The big downside to the "S" is it is so heavy. However, it isn't any different than any big lens in this catagory with this extreme duty build. If you are used to 'kit' lenses the "S" is going to be hard to get used to. You are better of buying the "C" version. If you generally use big lenses and big cameras like a 1 series, the "S" is no problem.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

cicopo — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:14:27 GMT

My Sigma 150-600 C got that firmware upgrade & is a killer at my R/C work plus pretty sharp. I don't think I've shared this here but a good friend & pro Canon shooter is also a very skilled R/C pilot. A few years back he had ISS Commander Chris Hadfield plus all the Snowbird pilots autograph 1 wing of a plane he flies & for fun I'd try to get a crisp enough shot to read the autographs. I had been trying at a shutter speed that gave prop blur on a few occasions but on 1 pass on a nice sunny day where he was flying l to R and doing a constant set of rolls I got this shot. The first sample shows the full frame at low res & the second is a crop of the signatures. Canon 1D4, ISO 200, f6.3 @ 468 mm, 1/2000 sec hand held. I have rotated the frame so it & the crop are oriented the same. Remember it's moving left to right & constantly rotating.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:52:11 GMT

@cicopo wrote:
My Sigma 150-600 C got that firmware upgrade & is a killer at my R/C work plus pretty sharp. .

Exactly. The firmware upgrade created an entirely new lens.

Yes, the lens SYSTEM is actually sharper now. The lens was always pretty sharp when manually focused, but not as sharp when it autofocused. If you were doing any sort of panning, then the OS had to be turned off. It was too soft over 500mm. It was kind of loud, noisy and clunky sounding.

The lens could have been described as missing focus, and in need of micro-adjustments. I spent months testing and adjusting my lens, and got it pretty sharp below 400mm. But, i still had the issues with noise, hunting, and panning with OS active. I had improved the autofocus at 500mm and above, but it still seemed a little soft at 600mm.

The firmware update fixed all of that. I recorded all of my in-camera focus adjustments, and reset them back to zero. Applied the update, and took it out on a few test sessions. It performed like an entirely different lens. It was not only quieter, it no longer hunted when tracking. It acquired focus much faster. The OS system actually works like an OS system should when you are panning.

Finally, it was tack sharp at all focal lengths, and not in need of any focus micro-adjustments. Sigma really nailed it.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

cicopo — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:04:56 GMT

I haven"t spent any time doing Micro Focus adjustments to any of my lenses since I bought (& MF'd it) the 7D way back when it came out. The lenses I shoot the most seem to be more than adaquate as bought.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

ebiggs1 — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:44:06 GMT

" I spent months testing and adjusting my lens, and got it pretty sharp below 400mm."

Prhaps you would care to show us some before and after shots?

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:29:18 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
" I spent months testing and adjusting my lens, and got it pretty sharp below 400mm."

Prhaps you would care to show us some before and after shots?

I tossed all of the test shots. So, I went through and tracked down a couple of similar "before and after" shots. Both are photos of a robin, using the 6D at 600mm. No crop, but I used LR to limit file size to 4500 kB. All of the shots are more, or less, straight out of the camera. I only applied an import preset with lens correction, default LR settings, and WB adjustments.

The first image is a "before", which was taken not long after I had purchased the lens. I noticed that it was slightly front focusing at short focal lengths to major back focusing at longer focal lengths. It was all over the map, and did not seem to focus consistently, either. Most of the apparent blur and bokeh distortion is from the OS.

The second image was taken after I was more or less "done" with calibrating the lens. At some point, I had to stop tinkering with it, and just walk away from that project. I tried to find a similar shot to the first one, but one that showed DOF.

I have no comparison shot of a robin after the firmware upgrade. So, here is a shot of 12 year old, Pee-Wee football, which was shot at 600mm with the 6D Mark. This shot has +1 Ev of exposure added in LR6.

Let me know what you think of the differences.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

ebiggs1 — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:02:26 GMT

My lens does not and did not exhibit what the first photo shows. The others look typical for that lens.

As a matter of fact none of the other three or four "C" lenses I have used show what yours did for whatever reason. I suspect yours did have an OS problem. Even the first two Sigma Sigma 150-500mm f/5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM Lenses I had didn't do that. They were pretty bad believe me. The third one is nice. One even went to Sigma but was not any better when I got it back.

The "C" just isn't in the same class as the "S", IMHO. I rarely use it anymore.

"C" below (before FW update)

"S" below.

If menory serves me well, I think both were shot at f8 but different FL. The Franklin's Gull being the more difficult to do, however. I usually shoot f8 with Av with any or all of these lenses. Makes that easy to remember.

Re: Help. What lense to buy.

Waddizzle — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:52:42 GMT

I cannot tell which of your shots was taken with which lens and update.

Meanwhile, here is an uncropped shot from the same game, but at 300mm focal length. This lens is all I need!

Cropped version. Look at the big kid's eyes.

[turning cartwheels] I am not sure how they were able to fix an OS problem through firmware, but I would suppose that OS is a 100% software feature, anyway. Typo in the previous post. All shots are with the 6D.

My 1D Mark IV is starting to show it's age. Newer camera bodies seem to get much better performance out of the newer generation of lenses, than the 1D Mark IV. However, the 1D Mark IV more than holds its' ground with older lens designs. The Sigma 150-600mm is an older lens design, but the firmware upgrade is really a killer, Ernie.