topic Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues in EF & RF Lenses

Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:12:58 GMT

I have just bought this lense to use with my 7d Mark 11 camera and am experiencing problems with focusing at 60/70 yards at 400 with extender. I use AI Servo for birds in flight. F8 - 11. Speed between 500 and 3200. IS0 Auto max 3200. Tracking case 1. It seems to be better at slow rather than fast speeds! Pretty good up to 40 yards using One Shot Mode. I use Centre spot or Extended Cross - can't expand further using using extender. Have not changed Microadjustments. I shoot hand held - birds in flight don't stay still! Have tried all 3 stablizer settings. I have been quite experenced and had good results up to now using my 300mm prime lense. I purchases the 100 X 400 with Extender to obtain better reach as I am missing some shots - very disappointed so far!!Any advice would be most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Richard Sharman

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

RobertTheFat — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:39:51 GMT

Rsharman wrote:
I have just bought this lense to use with my 7d Mark 11 camera and am experiencing problems with focusing at 60/70 yards at 400 with extender. I use AI Servo for birds in flight. F8 - 11. Speed between 500 and 3200. IS0 Auto max 3200. Tracking case 1. It seems to be better at slow rather than fast speeds! Pretty good up to 40 yards using One Shot Mode. I use Centre spot or Extended Cross - can't expand further using using extender. Have not changed Microadjustments. I shoot hand held - birds in flight don't stay still! Have tried all 3 stablizer settings. I have been quite experenced and had good results up to now using my 300mm prime lense. I purchases the 100 X 400 with Extender to obtain better reach as I am missing some shots - very disappointed so far!!Any advice would be most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Richard Sharman

The 1.4 extender costs you a full stop of aperture, so at the long end (400 mm) you're trying to focus through an f/8 lens. IIRC, the 7D2 has at most one AF point (the center one) that works at f/8. And if you can use only one AF point, AI Servo isn't going to be very effective.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Waddizzle — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:48:41 GMT

I think the problem is your extender. It sounds like you know what you're doing. When using the extender, your AF point selection is reduced to just the center point, or the center plus the cross, which do not actually track, but only serve to "expand" the center point's coverage area.

I say set the extender aside. I'm not sure if the Mark II extender works with the 100-400 Mark II. I'm almost certain that you need the Mark III extender for that lens.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:51:16 GMT

Thanks for your reply - my mistake it is the Mark 111 Extender I am using!!

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 14:55:19 GMT

Hi Bob - thanks for your prompt response. Using the Mark 111 extender I can use centre point focus or Extended Cross with Centre point, so I should get some benefit from AI Servo I think.

Thanks

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Waddizzle — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 15:16:23 GMT

@Rsharman wrote:
Hi Bob - thanks for your prompt response. Using the Mark 111 extender I can use centre point focus or Extended Cross with Centre point, so I should get some benefit from AI Servo I think.
Thanks

I assume that you are in continuous shooting mode. Check your settings for continuous shooting. Is it shutter priority, or focus priority? I always use focus priority, even if it slows down FPS. What's the point of a high frame rate if the shots are out of focus?

Also, the AF speed of the combo is slower when using the extender. I have had better success with Case 2, where the sensitivity and tracking are at a minimum, when using the extender.

I usually use IS mode 2 on the lens for tracking sports like baseball and football. It also seems to work for when the occasional bird might fly overhead, too. Of course, your focus mode switch would be set to 3m to inifinity.

Again, try the lens without the extender.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 15:24:39 GMT

Thanks Waddizzle for your detailed suggestions. Yes I do use continuous mode and I also use Priority set to Focus on shot 1 and on shot 2. This has worked well using my 300mm. I have only used Case 1 so I will definitely try Case 2 as suggested. I will try this with IS Mode 2. Yes I am set 3m to Infinity.

thanks

Richard

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Waddizzle — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 15:31:08 GMT

@RobertTheFat wrote:
@Rsharman wrote:

Richard Sharman
The 1.4 extender costs you a full stop of aperture, so at the long end (400 mm) you're trying to focus through an f/8 lens. IIRC, the 7D2 has at most one AF point (the center one) that works at f/8. And if you can use only one AF point, AI Servo isn't going to be very effective.

I agree with Bob, to a point. AI Servo will still be effective, but it will just be much harder to use.

I have found that I get better success by prefocusing on a zone ... which is next to impossible to do with BIF...but I am mostly shooting sports, where you can predict where the next shot is most likely to be. And, I do not just prefocus, I use BBF to keep the shutter from refocusing when I press the shutter.

You may have a bad copy of the lens, but it is unlikely that is the case. The one time I had a bad "L" lens it was because the box had been opened, and the weather sealing ring on the lens mount had been removed. The lens rattled when it was mounted to the camera because the rubber ring was missing. I do not buy big ticket items from Big Blue Box stores, anymore.

[EDIT] When using the extender, I also use quiet continuous shooting mode, which slows down the frame rate, and gives the camera more time to analyze focus.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:34:29 GMT

I think the lense is good as I have some very nice, in focus birds in flight at about 30/40 yards and also one shot staionary shots. It's when I am shooting at 400 + extender. I will try continuous in silent mode and also try with Case 2 tracking with IS 2

I will keep you both posted. I need some sun to give it a fair chance at 60 /70 yards - weather is appauling here at the moment.

Thanks to You both for your advise.

Regards

richard

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

ebiggs1 — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:06:30 GMT

I read this thread with some interest. For one thing I am not a fan of using tel-cons at all. Much preferring one of the 150-600mil super zooms over the 100-400mm.

This is puzzling to me.

" Pretty good up to 40 yards using One Shot Mode" "I have some very nice, in focus birds in flight at about 30/40 yards""...give it a fair chance at 60 /70 yards"

What does the distance have to do with it? It should make it easier to get an acceptably sharp photo. The DOF will become larger. What do you intend on doing with your photos? Are you doing excessive cropping for instance? If so the loss of resolution might be what you are noticing as OOF shots.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 10:26:29 GMT

Hi ebiggs1

Thanks for your comments. I agree the DOF becomes larger but even so images at 60/70 yards are poor quality. I have not cropped at all. I have simply viewed them in Adobe Bridge and Photoshop. Those taken at less than 40 yards or as One Shot seem pretty good. It appears to be something to do with AI Servo use. I will try Case 2 tracking and trial the underlying settings.

I also have Image Priority set to Focus on first and second shots.

Thanks

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Waddizzle — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:05:18 GMT

@Rsharman wrote:
Hi ebiggs1

Thanks for your comments. I agree the DOF becomes larger but even so images at 60/70 yards are poor quality. I have not cropped at all. I have simply viewed them in Adobe Bridge and Photoshop. Those taken at less than 40 yards or as One Shot seem pretty good. It appears to be something to do with AI Servo use. I will try Case 2 tracking and trial the underlying settings.
I also have Image Priority set to Focus on first and second shots.

Thanks

You will be trying this without the extender. Right? Do you know that the lens is operating correctly?

If not, you need to slow down, and take a series of test shots without the extender at varying distances, in both One Shot mode and AI Servo mode.

BTW, this particular seems to not perform as well when used with a UV filter. I had focus issues until I switched to a Clear one.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:23:12 GMT

I think the lense is OK because I have had some good shots at under 40 / 50 yards. I agree, I need to do a series of test shots at AI Servo and One Shot with and without Extender. I will also try taking off my UV filter. I also want to try Case 2 as you previously suggested.

Thanks again

Richard

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

ebiggs1 — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 15:05:30 GMT

Are you shooting Raw format? If you shoot Raw abd you have PS, you can do lens correction in ACR upon opening. Let's try that.

Can you post a few samples?

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 19:33:24 GMT

Hi ebiggs 1

Thanks for your last message. I do shoot in RAW and have applied lens correction in ACR. The first 2 images a shot at about 40/50 without extender. The others (horrible) are shot at about 70 yards with extender. In fairness the light was much better with the first 2.

Thanks

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

ebiggs1 — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 20:33:03 GMT

Richard the first two are simply fantastic.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your lens. I also think that is the way it is going to perform. The settings are drastically different in the first two as opposed to the last two. As the distance increases the resolution of any lens gets worse. Plus there is a lot of difference between the short end and long end of the zoom range.

The first two prove the lens and camera and you are preforming at a high level. So I do believe the addition of the distance, the tel-con and longer FL is giving you all it can. You know the best thing you can do to improve any lens is get closer.

There are guys that shoot for years and never get a shot like the first egret!

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

Rsharman — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 09:26:38 GMT

Hi Ebiggs1

Thanks for your kind comments on shots 1& 2. I think I may have found a reason for the bad shots at distance shooting. Somehow AI Servo Priority has been switched to neutral instead of Focus Priority - I dont know how that happened. I think I had C3 (which I use for slow moving shots) set to Neutral and then Registered those settings on C1 and C2 ( which I use for faster moving, bright day shots). Also I have now altered my Back Button settings using AF-On. I have some good weather forcast for this PM so I hope to get some shots in. I will let you know how it goes.!!

Many thanks for your time and advice.

Kind Regards

Richard

PS are you on Flickr

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

ebiggs1 — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:29:11 GMT

I hope it works the way you desire. But do keep in mind more distant shots are not going to be as sharp as closer ones. Every lens has a fixed amount of resolving factor.

"PS are you on Flickr"

Yes I do but I haven't used in for years. Right now my main most thing is work for the local school district. And, it is yearbook season so I will be busy for a while.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

RobertTheFat — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 16:35:38 GMT

ebiggs1 wrote:
I hope it works the way you desire. But do keep in mind more distant shots are not going to be as sharp as closer ones. Every lens has a fixed amount of resolving factor.
...

Also, the farther you are from your subject, the more you're at the mercy of water vapor, particulate matter, etc., in the air. Anything through which the light has to travel can cause loss of IQ.

Re: Canon 100 X 400 4.5 5.6 L IS 11 USM + 1.4 Mark 11 Extender - Focusing Isues

diverhank — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 16:53:33 GMT

I agree with ebiggs...from the photos you showed, there are nothing wrong with any of the pictures...Imho, the 100-400 is never meant to be used with an extender. I never use mine after trying a couple times. I get better results with a Tamron 150-600 when I need the 600 end. You can't always believe in the glowing reviews guys write about how good the 100-400 is with the extender...beats the Sigma and Tamron 150-600 etc... I have both. I know different. It's not bad but it's not great. The diminished focusing speed is very annoying.

Some guys might be more than ecstatic to have one of your "bad" pictures and write glowing review about it...but to you and me...not so much...I've learned to take reviews with a grain of salt (a big grain at that). Even with pictures - Anecdotal evidence is laughable...I can always have one or two pictures that will blow the socks off everyone for just about any lens...

Having recently owned this lens (1 year)...in its native 100-400mm, I think the 100-400 II is unbeatable...love that lens.

Oh another thing I've learned is not to bother with things out of reach...got to get close for good shots...it's that simple.