topic Re: Which Lens Next? in EF & RF Lenses

Which Lens Next?

Mitsubishiman — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:12:08 GMT

Hello Everyone…

I have 2 Canon Cameras EOS 40 D & EOS 7D

Currently have the following lenses

Canon EF 28-135mm IS USM (2)

Canon EF 70-300mm IS USM

Canon EF 100mm IS USM L Series Macro

Canon EFS 18-55mm (El Cheapo)

I am in the market for a wider angle fixed prime; my first choice would be…

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM

However considering I do have about $1500.00 to work with I will explain the following. I am not a professional, this is one of my few hobbies, I am typically interested in landscape photography and have 100K photos behind me, my usual outing involves the 40D with the 70-300 locked and a circular polarizer, I have recently determined that I need to obtain a wider field of view, however after reading the various forums my question is should I be looking at Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM or should I be looking at a Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM for more versatility, that one seems redundant since I have a couple of 28-135s

I do already have several 58mm filters, CP, 4-ND, Color enhancher, star filters, etc

I have reached the point where since I just purchased a used 7D I would like to see better results…

Please take a look at my photography in general first then from your experience would a 50mm 1.2 be the obvious lens I am missing, I am not really interested in buying 2 new lenses, just one.

https://500px.com/Mitsubishiman

Re: Which Lens Next?

TCampbell — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 22:27:13 GMT

50mm is still a slightly telephoto on an APS-C sensor camera like your 40D & 7D. By the math, a 29mm lens would be "normal" and anything shorter is wide, anything longer is telephoto.

The EF 50mm f/1.4 vs. the 1.2L are very different. The 50mm f/1.4 is better for casual shooting. The f/1.2 is a bit more difficult to work with (not everyone likes that lens, but those who take the time to exploit it for all it's worth.... love it.)

Have you considered wider lenses... say around 16mm?

For example, there is the new EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM (lists at about $1200)

Re: Which Lens Next?

Mitsubishiman — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 03:21:09 GMT

Thanks for the info, I will definately look into the 16-35, it appears to be more in line of what I am looking for, I assumed the lower F stop was a better lens for the money, however I apperantly need to do more research as to the differences.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:06:55 GMT

From your sample photos, you like to do general stuff. This almost eliminates a prime, doesn't it? Right off.

I am in the, I love the EF 50mm f1.2 L. It is my most favorite 50mm ever. However, if you are not willing to work with it, I strongly advise you to avoid it. It is not an easy lens to use. It is not a forgiving lens. It is not for beginners. It is, however, a great lens that has no peers. To that fact I sold my Sigam 50mm f1.4 Art lens because I would just never use it again after getting the big Canon f1.2. BTW, the Sigma has got the reputation of the sharpest 50mm ever made. Still I will take the EF 50mm f1.2 L every time. It is in a class of it own. So are you ready for it?

The EF 28-135mm is not a good lens, it is a great lens. You will have a tough time getting noticable better photos form something else. Unless you want to travel in the 1500+ dollar area.

Two Sigma's come to mind Sigma APO 50-150mm f/2.8 II and the18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM. Take a look at them. If you are stuck on a 50, try the EF 50mm f1.4. Everything considered it is a pretty tough lens to beat.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:08:46 GMT

IMHO, you need to dump the Canon EFS 18-55mm (El Cheapo) and the Canon EF 70-300mm IS USM if it is the black one.

Just my 2 cents and worth every penny.

Re: Which Lens Next?

Mitsubishiman — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 19:43:17 GMT

I definately agree on the 18-55, it was a spur of the moment purchase and is disappointing, it was $50 and I soon realiized why, I am interested in your input as to the 70-300, I have found it to be a versitle lens for the money, it is the black version and I completely understand the advantages of the "L" series lenses, however I do not really have the money for an upgrade of that style "yet"

I am always interested in the veterans opinion, is the 70-300 holding me back to the possibilities and should I just save my money for one particular lens for the style of photography I am interested in?

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:29:47 GMT

First off either or both of these lenses is better than no lens. Everybody has to consider their needs along with their budget.

Both of these lenses are entry level and have comprimises to make them affordable to the masses. Most of this market is just looking for something better than their cell phone. This job they do quite well and this line is the biggest seller.

Also it is aimed at people that want to start the hobby of photography. Some are satified and very happy and some want more.

You seem to be a person that is looking beyond. Good for you!

The longer the zoom focal length, the more difficult is is to produce a good lens. A 70-200 would be easier to design than a 70-300 would be. Now add the stated design market and you have to compromise. With this in mind, this is one reason the 70-300mm (black one) does not have stealler performance.

If a choice has to be made, always, always go with the best lens that fits your budget. Actually great photos have three parts, 50% you, 50% camera/lens and 50% post editing (Photoshop). Sometimes not in that order but you get the gest.

Re: Which Lens Next?

Mitsubishiman — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 00:36:49 GMT

Thanks for the reply, I will be upgrading lenses eventually, unfortunately regarding the post processing I do virtually none at this time, after purchasing the 7D it became apperant I need to start, so saving up for photoshop, in the mean time i have paint shop pro 12, I realize it is the cheap alternative, however everyone needs to start somewhere. and I feel I am off to a good start, Thanks again.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 14:17:15 GMT

You can not buy Photoshop any longer. You must rent it on a monthly basis for about $10 bucks per month.

You can buy Photoshop Elements which is a reduced version that may provide everything you will ever need.

Re: Which Lens Next?

RobertTheFat — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:10:14 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
You can not buy Photoshop any longer. You must rent it on a monthly basis for about $10 bucks per month.
You can buy Photoshop Elements which is a reduced version that may provide everything you will ever need.

And you may not need any form of Photoshop, ever. (I haven't, and I'm not exactly a newbie.) There are several free, or nearly free, alternatives that do ordinary photo editing just as well as Photoshop does it.

There are specialized types of editing that only Photoshop does well, or at all. If you need to do that kind of editing, you will presumably need Photoshop. But when that time comes, you will know that you need Photoshop, and you will know why you need it.

Re: Which Lens Next?

TCampbell — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:25:36 GMT

Adobe sells the "Photographer" package for their Creative Cloud -- which is $9.99/month (or you can pre-buy a year) and gets you both Lightroom and Photoshop.

You would spend most of your time in Lightroom... not Photoshop. Lightroom does about 98% of everything you'd want to do, but is faster and easier to work with than Photoshop.

Photoshop is technically more powerful in that it can do advanced edits that Lightroom can't do -- but you probably wont need that very often. The learning curve is steeper to learn to do use Photoshop. If you wanted to heavily stylize an image, then you'd do that with Photoshop.

Adobe introduced the Creative Cloud as their new sales model. You "rent" your software instead of buyning it. I find it odd because their page actually says "buy" but it's not a perpetual license like all the other things you buy and own forever. For a while after they introduced that model, they continued to sell traditional perpetual licenses -- but they sure did hide them (they made you work to figure out how to pay a "one-time payment and it's licensed forever" traditional method of purchase.) They don't seem to offer that option anymore (that -- or they've made it even harder to figure out how to buy it.)

Re: Which Lens Next?

RobertTheFat — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:41:50 GMT

@TCampbell wrote:
Adobe sells the "Photographer" package for their Creative Cloud -- which is $9.99/month (or you can pre-buy a year) and gets you both Lightroom and Photoshop.

You would spend most of your time in Lightroom... not Photoshop. Lightroom does about 98% of everything you'd want to do, but is faster and easier to work with than Photoshop.

Photoshop is technically more powerful in that it can do advanced edits that Lightroom can't do -- but you probably wont need that very often. The learning curve is steeper to learn to do use Photoshop. If you wanted to heavily stylize an image, then you'd do that with Photoshop.

Adobe introduced the Creative Cloud as their new sales model. You "rent" your software instead of buyning it. I find it odd because their page actually says "buy" but it's not a perpetual license like all the other things you buy and own forever. For a while after they introduced that model, they continued to sell traditional perpetual licenses -- but they sure did hide them (they made you work to figure out how to pay a "one-time payment and it's licensed forever" traditional method of purchase.) They don't seem to offer that option anymore (that -- or they've made it even harder to figure out how to buy it.)

My impression (though not based on personal experience) is that even with a "perpetual license", Photoshop owners were obliged to purchase fairly expensive upgrades in order to stay current with changes to their equipment or operating systems.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:53:46 GMT

Tim,

And Adobe got all kinds of negative feedback when they decided to go this route but if you look at their profit statements, it was a success. I will not do it but my company couldn't care less. It is just another line the the expense ledger.

The reason I always recommend a starter or hobbists get PSE, is Lightroom, which I love, is geared more towards a person than shoots thousands of photos. Plus beyond basics it isn't PS by a long margin.

PSE on the other hand has all the features of a data based and fairly full editing ability in one package. And it is at a very apealing price point. It is a little cousin to PS.

Bob from Boston,

"(I haven't, and I'm not exactly a newbie.)"

Robert, I have no idea of your photographic experience but personally I use LR and PS every day and I am retired! I know of no pro shop that does not use PS. 100% not 90% or 99% but 100%. PSE is almost as complete as PS regardless of all the other and/or freebie programs out there. It would be a great stepping stone to the real deal if the OP so wishes. Otherwise they can stay put with the best editor for the money.

Again my 2 cents and worth every penny.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:57:45 GMT

Bob from Boston, Bob from Boston......

"Photoshop owners were obliged to purchase fairly expensive upgrades in order to stay current with changes to their equipment or operating systems."

Where did you get this? It isn't true. As a mater fo fact Adobe still provides upates for equipment to CS6 (PS).

They update ACR which is the big deal. Right now it is the best they have ever done with it. You can even edit jpgs now not just CR2.

Re: Which Lens Next?

TCampbell — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 17:32:59 GMT

@ebiggs1 wrote:
Bob from Boston, Bob from Boston......
"Photoshop owners were obliged to purchase fairly expensive upgrades in order to stay current with changes to their equipment or operating systems."

Where did you get this? It isn't true. As a mater fo fact Adobe still provides upates for equipment to CS6 (PS).
They update ACR which is the big deal. Right now it is the best they have ever done with it. You can even edit jpgs now not just CR2.

Adobe provides updates for a short while after a new version comes out... but if you own, say... CS4... and you buy a new camera, you wont get a RAW update from Adobe for that new camera that will work with CS4.

I had CS3, CS4, CS5 and very shortly after the introduction of CS6 they introduced CC (Creative Cloud). CC actually *is* CS6... with a couple of cloud features added. For a while they will continuing to sell CS6 as a perpetual license while they were selling CC via the rental model. I think this is why you can still get updates to CS6.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 20:13:18 GMT

"Adobe still provides upates for equipment to CS6 (PS)"

The very reason I put this statement in there (CS6). It is actually ACR that needs the update. SInce I no longer use any of the previous versions of PS, I have no idea if ACR works with them or not. I know it did when I finially deleted CS5.5 Extended.

I rarely used it after buying CS6. CS 5.5 Extended has video and web support but I really don't do either.

At Hallmark we had PS before it was called Photoshop and it was just B&W.

Re: Which Lens Next?

Skirball — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:50:18 GMT

I don't care for Adobe's business strategy with using RAW updates to "force" you into upgrading, but there are enough alternatives to work around it. Mostly the people who upgrade with every release are either businesses who can easily write of the cost of business, or it's people who's skills in PS are less than spectacular and they think that upgrading will make their post work better. Which it does, because every release lowers the bar a bit, but those that know what they're doing can manage just fine with older versions.

But you have DNG converter, Lightroom, DPP, or any other 3rd party RAW converter such as Capture One. You lose the ability to use a smart layer on your RAW conversion, but otherwise it's no different than using ACR. Edit - well, with DNG converter you wouldn't lose smart layers.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ebiggs1 — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:48:21 GMT

Tim,

"Adobe provides updates for a short while ..."

I guess it depends on your deffinition of "short while". But I just got a new update to ACR, 8.7 if I remember correctly. CS6 has not been for sale for more than a "short while" as to my thinking. It wasn't even easy to buy when it was!

I am sure they will stop at some point. No company is going to support old software forever.

Like I said I deleted CS5.5 but the last time I used it, ACR worked in it as well. I can't try it now with the latest update so I don't know.

I did some beta testing for Adobe on CC. They called it CS7, BTW. I don't use it and have no plans on using CC so again I don't know. At the time they were working on the camera shake feature. I guess it is in there?

Anybody can use whatever they want and more power to them, I wish them well. But nothing is in the same league or class as ACR.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ScottyP — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 02:02:45 GMT

This has veered off into software discussion, but on the subject of lenses, I feel strongly that since you have a whole lot of zoom lenses, you really should strongly consider owning at least one prime lens, or at least one bright lens (f/2.8 at least, and f/1- point-something even better). If you don't have any lenses with an f/stop lower than f3.5 you will have nothing to work with in low light, and no great bokeh lens for blurring out backgrounds.

On a crop I think 50mm is a portrait lens, 35mm is a general use lens, and a 24mm is slightly wide angle which would be good for landscapes or general use. A prime in any of these focal lengths would be great. Canon has primes in all here lengths, abs there is a Sigma Art lens for all 3 also (once the recently announced Sigma 24mm f/1.4 is available in a month or two.

You could also look at the truly amazing Sigma 18-35 f/1.8. Best of all worlds, being super fast f/1.8 aperture for low light, and also being (incredibly for an f/1.8 lens) a zoom for versitility, and being wide angle. There is no other lens like it, being a zoom with a wider than f/2.8 max aperture. And the focal length is great for your landscapes.

Re: Which Lens Next?

ScottyP — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 02:11:38 GMT

And as for software, I agree with Tim and Ebiggs on Lightroom. It really does do 99% of what you will ever want to do. More like 100% really, unless you really like to swap people's heads around on different bodies or rather drastic manipulations like rhat, and Lightroom is a lot easier to learn to use than Photoshop. .