topic Re: Advice: new camera or new lens? in EF & RF Lenses

Advice: new camera or new lens?

Puenteancho — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 20:20:18 GMT

I'm not sure where to post, in cameras or lenses, because I have a mixed question.

I currently have a T3i and two Canon lenses: EFS 17-85 1:4-5.6 IS USM and EF 70-300 1:4-5.6 L IS USM. I mostly shoot outdoors and take a lot of pictures of rugby. Now, I would like to start shooting high school basketball (indoor, bad lighting, but court side, so close range). Today, my G16 takes better photos in this situation than the T3i and lenses I have.

My question is: is my money better invested in a new lens (thinking 50mm 1.4, which seems like a good investment anyway) or upgrading my camera (which I will do anyway in the next couple of years)? I realize neither of my lenses is a good indoor lens, but my camera also doesn't do well at higher ISO. Unfortunately, buying both is not an option right now. I look forward to any suggestions you have. Thanks!

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ScottyP — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 15:02:24 GMT

Get the lens for sure.

You pick up 4 stops of light going from an f/5.6 lens to an f/1.4 lens. That is 16x more light to work with, keeping the ISO low and the shutter fast.

There is no crop body with more than perhaps 1/3 of a stop better low light/high ISO performance vs. the T3i, so you would need to go full frame to see any difference. A full frame body will give you about 2 stops in better usable ISO performance, which is equal to just 4x more flexibility with light.

A full frame 6d costs $1600. A full frame 5d3 costs $2600. An 85mm or 50mm prime lens costs less than $400.

Note too if you go full frame you will have to get a new lens anyway since your EF-s lens won't mount.

I would suggest the 85mm over the 50mm for basketball or other sports, but I would prefer the 50mm for general use, portraits and everything else on a crop body because the 85mm can feel very long.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

Puenteancho — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 15:28:55 GMT

Thanks for the very helpful reply! You confirm what I was thinking (and hoping), but it's good to hear from someone with a bit more knowledge than I have. I will likely get the 50mm for the reasons you say and because I hope it's not my last lens 🙂 Thanks again.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 15:46:40 GMT

"Today, my G16 takes better photos in this situation than the T3i and lenses I have."

Aren't these great little cameras? I just got a G15 and I am very impressed with it. But you answered your question already!

The lens on the G16 provides a 35mm-equivalent focal length range of 28-140mm, covering wide-angle to telephoto length perspectives. A maximum aperture of f/1.8-2.8. You say this is good, so the answer is to find a lens for your T3i that closely resembles that.

That may be tough to do with a single lens. And it is not going to cheap depending on your deffinition of cheap. Remember, too, the G16 is a 5:1 ratio zoom.

One very good place to start is the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8. Next you might consider the Sigma APO 50-150mm f/2.8 II. These two lenses will make your T3i do as good as it can.

Now the good thing is, lenses is where it's at. Get good lenses. You can upgrade your T3i to the new T6i (?) later when it comes out. Both of these, lens, suggestions are so much better than what you have and they will make a super, start, to a lens nice lens collection. There are others, too.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:16:07 GMT

"I will likely get the 50mm for the reasons you say and because I hope it's not my last lens"

~~I won't say not to ge the EF 50mm f1.8 but I believe it is a mistake. As I would for any, the 85mm too, fixed or prime lens for a BB game. The nifty 50 is so cheap it is hard to go wrong with it.~~ But even that money is better spent on the two suggestions I gave you. Plus they mimick the solution you already know works from your G16.

Edited:

Except for the cheapness of the 1.8, I don't recommend the f1.4 either for a BB game. Although it (EF 50mm f1.4) is a very nice lens and hard to advise against it.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ScottyP — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 15:56:35 GMT

He wasn't talking about the nifty fifty. He is talking about the 50mm f/1.4, not the 50mm f/1.8.

He already has broad range zooms. A nice bright prime lens would be a great upgrade and something different from what he already has.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ebiggs1 — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:11:04 GMT

"A nice bright prime lens would be a great upgrade and something different from what he already has."

Not for BB. IMHO, of course.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

Puenteancho — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:24:41 GMT

Thanks to you both for giving me food for thought. I did, indeed, mean the 50mm 1.4. I think it's a good lens to have and it helps me out with my immediate wish to shoot my son's high school basketball with the T3i. I know it's not ideal, but I can literally be on the court (no stands to speak of) and with the crop body, it will get tight enough shots.

I can compromise a little on basketball shots, something I wouldn't do for my rugby photography.

Nexts steps will be a new body and a f/2.8 zoom of some kind. This is my first time on the forum and I am so pleased with the response. It will surely not be my last.

Thanks again,

Dawn (rugby mom and learning about basketball) 🙂

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

Skirball — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:44:49 GMT

I don't know that the 50mm 1.4 would be my go to for basketball, but if you're ok with the focal range, have at it. It's a great lens, I use mine all the time.

I'd think it's far too wide for rugby though, and I'd really want a zoom for something like that. I wouldn't worry about the camera, put your money into good f/2.8 zoom lenses. The difference that will make over a new camera is sizeable.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

JonKline — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:10:16 GMT

Another piece of the puzzle no one mentioned yet... in 10 years your new camera will be a paperweight, but your new lens could sell for more than you paid for it.

I buy new lenses whenever I can and new cameras only when I have to.

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

TCampbell — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:40:50 GMT

@JonKline wrote:
Another piece of the puzzle no one mentioned yet... in 10 years your new camera will be a paperweight, but your new lens could sell for more than you paid for it.
I buy new lenses whenever I can and new cameras only when I have to.

Very few lenses go up in value, but some do. To go up in value the lens needs to be very good condition. I have an EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM (original... I bought it before Canon introduced the "II") and that lens is currently going for more on the used market than I paid for it when it was new. But this is only because (a) it's an L series lens and (b) the replaced model was introduced at a significantly higher price point than the original was selling for after it had been out for many years. The "II" is currently about $6600 new. The original is selling for about $4500 if it's in "very good" condition. But I think I paid closer to $4k when I bought mine new.

The L series lenses tend to hold their value extremely well... many can be sold on the used market for about 85% of whatever they sold for as "new" -- as long as they are in very good condition.

All of this assumes a person actually wants to "sell" their lenses. But since the lenses continue to work and perform on every new camera body I might buy... why sell them? It's an investment that will last for years and years. If you think of all the things you buy as a consumer which have to be replaced every handful of years (e.g. computers, phones, cars, etc.) your lenses will out-last all of those. A quality lens is a solid investment. To that end, I prefer to save for an exceptional lens that will last, rather than a cheaper lens that I will probably want to upgrade in the future (because that results in buying the same thing twice to satisfy just one need.)

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

ScottyP — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 11:04:00 GMT

Yes but You get what Jon is saying. He isn't claiming you should purchase cases of lenses as investments. He merely says they are current models for decades hold value whereas bodies are updated every 1 - 3 years and they lose value.

If you buy gently used lenses from individuals (Craigslist, etc) you actually could shoot them for a few years and sell them for more than you paid if you make good deals. You take a depreciation hit if you buy new but if you buy used, someone else took that hit for you. But the point is the free use of the lens, not the few bucks profit. This would be true for many lenses, not just the "L" ones. I just wish I lived in a bigger volume Craigslist area so there would be a bigger selection of lenses on offer near me!

Re: Advice: new camera or new lens?

Skirball — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:33:00 GMT

@ScottyP wrote:
Yes but You get what Jon is saying. He isn't claiming you should purchase cases of lenses as investments. He merely says they are current models for decades hold value whereas bodies are updated every 1 - 3 years and they lose value.

Sure, and I think we all agree with the basic premise - though I think the use of the word 'investment' is an overstatement. But if you look through all of our posts we're all saying the same thing: buy lenses, not camera bodies. We just didn't elaborate on why.