topic Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect in Camera Software

DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 19:31:35 GMT

I upraded from DPP3 to DPP4. (4.6.10.0)

I was stuggling with the shadow areas of the photo's I processed.

There was no detail in the shadows, it was pure black.

Today I opened an old image and exported it with the same settings, and discovered that DPP4 is displaying AND EXPORTING Adobe RGB all wrong. It's a mess!

When changing to sRGB colors are ok, but when choosing any other profile the contrast increases, like the top and bottom of the spectrum are cut off. But it should not change at all!! Just like when converting to another profile in Photoshop.

Am I missing something here or what the..?

Attached are two screenshots of the DPP2/3 (top) and the DPP4 (bottom) version, as seen in Photoshop.

Note how the DPP4 version has lost all detail in the shadow areas.

Settings where the same for both exports. (defaults)

Also note the histogram that also shows that the actual file is different and it is not my color settings.

So I guess it's back to DPP3 again until this incredible bug - that for some mysterious reason has not been mentioned anywhere before - is fixed.

Sorry for my frustration but I recently also was blown away by a totally messed up 'saturation' slider on the Adobe side, that also nobody seemed to notice (Lumetri saturation in Premiere Pro). Adobe raw colors are also horrible and that's I why I use DPP.

I hope I am missing out on some checkbox or something that solves the problem.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 20:05:43 GMT

I have 'botched' the problem for now by setting the Output level (under 'Adjust image tone curves' tab) to 13 (and copy to all other raws).

When doing that, shadows magically get detail again.

Maybe the most 'true' value will be a different number, but around 13 seems good.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:07:02 GMT

What steps did you follow:

1. set working color space to Adobe RGB

2. transfer to Photoshop, or alternately Convert and save a TIFF and open in PS.

I just tried that and my images look identical DPP & PS.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:28:08 GMT

Thanks John,

Yes the images look identical in DPP en PS, but not in DPP2/3 and DPP4.

As I show in the screenshot.

the upper was exported in DPP2/3 (i forgot if it was 2 or 3) and the lower in DPP4.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Waddizzle — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 16:40:09 GMT

@Skies wrote:
Thanks John,

Yes the images look identical in DPP en PS, but not in DPP2/3 and DPP4.
As I show in the screenshot.
the upper was exported in DPP2/3 (i forgot if it was 2 or 3) and the lower in DPP4.

Check and compare your lens correction settngs, lighting optimizer settings, etc.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 17:55:12 GMT

Thanks for your input,

'lighning optimizer' is off and the rest at defaults (in this particular example).

But it's the same for all images, dark areas are clipped (if I use the correct term).

Could anybody try and switch from sRGB to aRGB color profile for the image, there should be no change in overall appearanceif I am correct.

All other color spaces like wide gamut look exactly the same as aRGB (thus wrong, with clipped blacks and maybe also highlights) except sRGB, this has proper shadows.

The export looks the same as the preview in DPP, so it happens inside DPP.

Shadows are 'cut off'. Just like sliding the 'shadow input level' in Photoshop Levels up to around value 13.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Waddizzle — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 18:33:45 GMT

@Skies wrote:

Could anybody try and switch from sRGB to aRGB color profile for the image, there should be no change in overall appearanceif I am correct.

All other color spaces like wide gamut look exactly the same as aRGB (thus wrong, with clipped blacks and maybe also highlights) except sRGB, this has proper shadows.
The export looks the same as the preview in DPP, so it happens inside DPP.

Shadows are 'cut off'. Just like sliding the 'shadow input level' in Photoshop Levels up to around value 13.

I do not have DPP2. When I use DPP3 or DPP4, the image changes slightly, as well as the histogram, whenever I change work color space setting. Changing to the other color spaces creates similar changes. I have always considered this to be the normal behavior.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:13:44 GMT

What happens if you select Auto in the Gamma window?

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:26:18 GMT

I just started my old PC (New DPP4 was installed when upgrading the PC).

And in DPP 3.11 sRGB actually makes the shadows a bit darker than the other profiles... The other way around almost.

That is weird also..

Is Canon reading these forums?

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:28:52 GMT

@jrhoffman75 wrote:
What happens if you select Auto in the Gamma window?

Crazy stuff!

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:31:08 GMT

"Is Canon reading these forums?"

Not really. It's moderated to make sure we don't get out of line, but it's not a technical help forum. It's user help.

You could give Canon a call at 1-800-OK-CANON and see if they have any ideas.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:34:39 GMT

Like the note at the bottom?

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 21:29:08 GMT

Ah ok, I'll see if I can sent a bugreport somwhere for DPP (because I am convinced it is a bug).

I've worked with DPP for over 10 years and this never happened before.

It also looks like any adjustments to raw files saved with DPP3 are not recognized by DPP4.

The auto gamma does something similar as auto levels in Photoshop.

And it does not solve the problem (more the opposite actually).

I always set everyting manually 😉

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 22:01:07 GMT

"It also looks like any adjustments to raw files saved with DPP3 are not recognized by DPP4." This is true.

In your original screen shot, what software is that? The histograms look strange to me.

Have you tried other images? I will use Auto Gamma as a start and then adjust to taste. I haven't had any strange behaviors.

Original

AUTO

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

RobertTheFat — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 11:53:32 GMT

@Skies wrote:
Ah ok, I'll see if I can sent a bugreport somwhere for DPP (because I am convinced it is a bug).
I've worked with DPP for over 10 years and this never happened before.
It also looks like any adjustments to raw files saved with DPP3 are not recognized by DPP4.

The auto gamma does something similar as auto levels in Photoshop.
And it does not solve the problem (more the opposite actually).
I always set everyting manually 😉

I don't think there's any bug You probably have DPP 3 configured to display all images in sRGB on your computer terminal and DPP 4 configured to display them in their native form. By default, an Adobe RGB image will display incorrectly on an sRGB device. But DPP lets you correct for that and display all images in sRGB. I suspect that you have that option configured differently in DPP 3 and DPP 4.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 16:16:32 GMT

Thanks again John for your input.

The software of the screenshot is Photoshop CC.

Your example has a pretty good result. I tried with a rainbow photo but that didn't go well 😉

@Bob:

Thank you,

I can't imagine that's the case because the export Tiff is identical in Photoshop, and all images look as they should in photoshop.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

RobertTheFat — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:00:03 GMT

@Skies wrote:
Thanks again John for your input.
The software of the screenshot is Photoshop CC.
Your example has a pretty good result. I tried with a rainbow photo but that didn't go well 😉

@Bob:
Thank you,
I can't imagine that's the case because the export Tiff is identical in Photoshop, and all images look as they should in photoshop.

Photoshop is probably set up to do an automatic conversion to the native gamut of the display device. Whether that's how images should look depends on your definition of the word "should". Check the Photoshop manual. I'll bet there's an option to do that conversion or not do it.

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

Skies — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:56:02 GMT

As I stated in the startpost the two images are both Adobe RGB and where exported with the same settings in DPP3 and 4. The actual image is not the same. I don't see how display settings (information that is not saved in the actual file) should get different export results. If this would be the case, it could be considered a bug as well since it's applying display settings in the file. (Compare it with recording a song where settings of the speakers are affecting the recorded audio, rather than only settings of the recorder.)

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

jrhoffman75 — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 20:44:03 GMT

Hi Skies. I am an engineer, so I can't let things be mysteries

I reinstalled DPP 3.15 and ran the following test. Adobe RGB was the adjustent work space (even though I usually use Wide Gamut RGB when I work in DPP):

1. open image in DPP3; process in RGB Tone Curve Assist

2. transfer that image to PS CC2017

3. open same image in DPP4; process in AUTO GAMMA

4. transfer that image to PS CC2017

Screenshots below in order 1, 2, 3, 4

I think DPP4 does a better job, but I don't seea difference between DPP and PS image.

Is my test replicating your process?

Re: DPP4 Adobe RGB processed incorrect

tomri — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:38:49 GMT

With the latest version of DPP4 I am still seeing much darker shadows with RAW files from my 6D compared to the following:

- DPP3 save to JPEG

- DPP3 transfer to Photoshop

- extract embedded JPEG from CR2, viewed in Photoshop.

DPP4 produces darker shadows regardless of whether I

- view the image in DPP4 directly

- export to JPEG and view in Photoshop

- transfer to Photoshop directly.

The working profile is set to AdobeRGB and the display profile is set to my monitor profile in all applications. This is on Windows 10.

For some images the difference is significant so that relevant shadow detail is lost. Workarounds like increasing exposure or lifting the lower level of output as suggested here do not produce the same result as DPP3 either.

Any idea what is wrong here?

Thanks

Tom