topic DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested. in Camera Software

DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 22:10:19 GMT

I've been "Focus Stacking" for a couple of years now using two programs from Helicon, Helicon Remote and Helicon Focus. I use Remote to take the stacks via a 10' USB 3x connection to my laptop which transfers RAW (CR2) files to my laptop and opens Helicon Focus to do its thing. It's quite powerful and packed with features, but it's fairly expensive, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

With that being said, back to the topic. Since I seldom use all of DPP4, I just found the Depth Compositing tool and gave it a go. I started with some stacks taken with the EOS 7D mark II, which didn't work because only certain Canon cameras are supported. When all else fails, read the DPP4 maunual. It turns out that my EOS 5D mark IV is supported, so I loaded a 19 shot stack taken with that camera and an EF 100mm f/2.8L macro lens. One gripe I have with DPP4 is that you can't embed your RAW recipe in a saved RAW file, at least i can't find a way to do it, and if I needed adjustments in my stacks, it was either reshoot or adjust in DPP4 and convert to tiff in DPP4 and rerun the stack as tiff's in Helicon as opposed to simply editing my RAW files, saving them, then using Helicon Focus to stack the edited RAW files. With this feature now in DPP4, I can edit one RAW image then copy the recipe and paste it to the others, then process the stack with edited RAW files 🙂

I'm impressed with the outcome, but the "touchup" tool is a little clunky. You don't get a lot of options through the process, but I am happy so far and will only use Helicon Remote to get the initial shots. I'm assuming that other Canon users who have "in camera" stacking as an option will like it also.

The attached image was taken with an EOS 5D mark IV and EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM lens, stacked in DPP4, converted and saved as tff, then resized and converted to jpg for posting (just to save space). the tiff's are stunning.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations Only for those interested

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 09 Jun 2020 20:38:06 GMT

This is a tighter crop of the above image.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

steve_z — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 03:40:46 GMT

re: Supported cameras

I am reading page 117 of the DPP 4.12 manual and using verson 4.12.20.3 that I just downloaded. The manual says that JPEGS are suppoted for "All cameras compatible with DPP". I tried the Depth Compositing Tool with JPEGS shot on an 80D (which is compatible with DPP). I got an error message "Cannot start depth compositing tool. Not available for the focused image."

The JPEGS were all shot using the same manual settings in a sequence of shots just changing the focal distance on an object. This seemed to satisfy the Shooting conditions noted on page 117 of the manual: " The camera, lens, shutter speed, aperture value, focal length, image format, and image size must be the same." I tried changing the focal distance both by keeping the camera fixed and focusing with the lens and by moving the lens/camera closer in sequence of images.

Does anyone know if the manual is in error or what else could be going on?

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 00:59:47 GMT

@steve_z wrote:
re: Supported cameras
I am reading page 117 of the DPP 4.12 manual and using verson 4.12.20.3 that I just downloaded. The manual says that JPEGS are suppoted for "All cameras compatible with DPP". I tried the Depth Compositing Tool with JPEGS shot on an 80D (which is compatible with DPP). I got an error message "Cannot start depth compositing tool. Not available for the focused image."

The JPEGS were all shot using the same manual settings in a sequence of shots just changing the focal distance on an object. This seemed to satisfy the Shooting conditions noted on page 117 of the manual: " The camera, lens, shutter speed, aperture value, focal length, image format, and image size must be the same." I tried changing the focal distance both by keeping the camera fixed and focusing with the lens and by moving the lens/camera closer in sequence of images.

Does anyone know if the manual is in error or what else could be going on?

Thanks for the headsup, Steve. I didn't notice it woud use other file types. I just went straight for the Raw files.

I just did a down n dirty three shot jpg stack (converted from Raw to jpg in DPP) shot with a 7D mark II and EF 100mm f/2.8 IS USM lens using DPP4 v.4.12.60.0 to stack. It worked fine. What lens were you using? Is it possible you have EXIF info turned off in the conversion dialog? Also, are you manually adjusting focus with the focus ring or using the EOS utility or some other remote shooting app?

Please note that I used Helicon Remote to get the Raw shots.

Cropped to 1280x801.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

amaitra — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 07:22:34 GMT

Does this work at all with TIFF files generated by DPP from RAW on 6D?

DPP cannot import TIFF created by Hugin either.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

Waddizzle — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 12:56:14 GMT

@amaitra wrote:
Does this work at all with TIFF files generated by DPP from RAW on 6D?

DPP cannot import TIFF created by Hugin either.

No. This feature only works with the latest camera releases. These cameras have a special shooting mode for focus stacking.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

amaitra — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 17:43:59 GMT

Thanks!

It is odd they put up such strange restrictions. They seem to want to make folks purchase higher end or new cameras for simpel features that can easily be implemented in other lower / older models!

It would be so much better if they open sourced DPP and allowed others to add things to it!

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 20:38:58 GMT

@amaitra wrote:
Does this work at all with TIFF files generated by DPP from RAW on 6D?

DPP cannot import TIFF created by Hugin either.

According to the manual, yes (see attached) it will use the files, but since the 6D does not have built in focus bracketing, you would need to find another way to get the stacks to process in DPP4. I've only used it with two cameras, the 7D2 and 5D4 with Raw (5D4 only), Tiff, and JPeG.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Sun, 04 Oct 2020 22:22:34 GMT

@Waddizzle wrote:
@amaitra wrote:
Does this work at all with TIFF files generated by DPP from RAW on 6D?

DPP cannot import TIFF created by Hugin either.
No. This feature only works with the latest camera releases. These cameras have a special shooting mode for focus stacking.

Yes, latest cameras Raw files, but I suspect it's more to do with the Raw format. Not all of the cameras listed as "Raw" compatible have the Focus Compositing feature.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

amaitra — Sat, 12 Dec 2020 22:19:48 GMT

Thaese are unneded restriction - I can export tiffs from DPP and use tools (even open source ones like enblend) to do it.

I use older manual focus non canon lenses.

Some of these restrictions are just to make us buy higher priced body 😉

e.g, If they can autofocus, they can do focus peaking! Just adding magic lantern will let you do it on all bodies. So one can easily focus with oldr manual focus lenses. One can do focus stacking, intervalometer and all the usual stuff with it.

DPP shoudl allow all these things in case the camera does not have the horse power to do it. Or just have the smart phone app to drive them. Makes little sense to buy a new body to do these features that are easily done in post processing software on a computer.

If Canon does not want to invest in DPP, they can simply open source it and people will add them in no time!

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Sun, 13 Dec 2020 03:01:53 GMT

@amaitra wrote:
Thaese are unneded restriction - I can export tiffs from DPP and use tools (even open source ones like enblend) to do it.
I use older manual focus non canon lenses.
Some of these restrictions are just to make us buy higher priced body 😉
e.g, If they can autofocus, they can do focus peaking! Just adding magic lantern will let you do it on all bodies. So one can easily focus with oldr manual focus lenses. One can do focus stacking, intervalometer and all the usual stuff with it.

DPP shoudl allow all these things in case the camera does not have the horse power to do it. Or just have the smart phone app to drive them. Makes little sense to buy a new body to do these features that are easily done in post processing software on a computer.

If Canon does not want to invest in DPP, they can simply open source it and people will add them in no time!

Greetings, amaitra! I hope all is well.

The way I look at it is a little different 🙂 DPP is made for Canon users and is basically a free courtesy, so it just makes sense that they restrict files to those created with DPP or Canon cameras. The Raw restriction, I suspect, is because of Canons updated Raw files not camera features, which is a shame because I have stacks from other Canon cameras shot in older Raw as I've used Helicon software over the years to shoot them, so on that we can agree 🙂 The restrictions with JPeG and Tiff, provided they were created with DPP or with a Canon camera, are that each shot in the stack have the same settings (Av, Tv, ISO, etc) which requires that you put your camera in Manual mode, make your settings, and either use dedicated software to advance the focal plane or manually do it, preferably with a macro rail. As far as I know, JPeG and Tiff from any Canon camera can be used to make a stack, provided the above requirements are met. I've used a Rebel, 7D2, and 5D4 to make stacks from JPeG/Tiff, non of which have built in stacking. I prefer Raw and that is what I use with my dedicated stacking software (Helicon) from all of my cameras, even Nikon.

There is a problem with taking images out of DPP, editing in other image editors, then back into DPP, or simply bringing some images into DPP (like from the web or LR/PS) as there are several threads here about that problem. I and several others have examined these files with ASCII/HEX editors to find that there is additional header information (color space and even URL's) created by other editors that makes DPP reject them. DPP on the other hand, has a very clean header so it's readily accepted by other image editors.

As for the "Open Source" comment, Canon is not about to release the Raw specifications or any other proprietary programing, at least not without a heavy monitary return, and if they do, it won't be "full". I know that there are Camera profiles avaailable in some Raw editors, but most require you set up a custom profile for your camera/lens. LR/PS users please chime in on this comment, I don't use either one and would hate to mislead anyone.

Overall, I am happy with DPP in general and thankful they throw us a bone every now and again, after all, Canon is not in the software business and I'm pretty sure they source it out. Admitidly, the bones don't have a lot of meat sometimes, but it's a free program. DPP is probably the best at getting your Raw files ready for other post processing programs with NR and lens adjustments, then it's easy enough to export to PS or convert/save to JPeG or TIFF. As for the Focus Stacking in DPP, it's pretty weak but functional for simple stacks. It falls way short in the "touch up" area, compared to my pricey dedicated program, but as mentioned, it's free so I cut it a lot of slack, LOL

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

amaitra — Sun, 13 Dec 2020 04:22:28 GMT

Agree somewhat and diasgree on some!

I use canon camera but a leica lens.

Focus stacking has very little to do with raw format - it is detecting points of focus that can be done with micro contrast detection - sort of like a camera does in the first place. So while DPP might restrict usage to canon raw files, there is little technical reason not to do focus stack on DPP for all canon camera models.

DPP should be able to detect points of focus from any canon camera model - it already does - it is recorded in the file and DPP shows it!

The RAW formats are public anyway? Even GIMP can read it. How each package interprets it can be different - it is not about the format.

About "shooting" focus stack on model A vs B ... well all that is required is start at point A, keep moving till you reach point B (user specifies it). And decide how many steps and hence incremental on each step. (less than 100 lines of code) The camera already does all these things! No need to get a high end model to do it.

Why need use external intervalometer (for time lapse) or focus stacking software from others.

A kludgy Magic Lantern will do this on models which apparently cannot do these.

About your comment on DPP is free - most of the digital camera is basically software. One reason why the german brands have been losing out. The camera / lens are not cheap - they need to pay more attention to the s/w. Comparable code runs on the camera itself - there is very low value on increasing compute power in the camera from the consumer perspective since it has to be imported to the computer anyway. The body has many constraints, restrictions on power, memory, heat dissiaption etc. Most modern computers can do this while importing the files - most will not even notice the delays. The camera can be a lot cheaper / faster.

Only things it really needs is a high quality sensor and good quality lens. And since a single sensor for all will be cheaper, the price differentiaton is with such "gimmicks". A large number of semiconductor components are like that - creating another device even with a minor change costs lot more than selling the exact same piece with some undetectable internal changes - but exactly the same part.

But selling the body is where they make profits 😉 The price points they are, the industry will shrink even further.

Notice, even Sony does a discounted / custom capture one.

If you look at Phase I - $40k camera - the backend on the camera is running linux / capture one! Something a rasberry pi can do! Just the form factor (more of shape than size) difference! $100 vs $40k price diference.

Even on the canon body - you are basically buying < $150 worth of computing power at $3k! Even a low end general purpose computer will beat it. Concentrate on the lens (which they obviously do), and sensor. Use smart phone apps and host computer to do the rest. The camera body will price will need to come down dramatically.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

carl_schnurr — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 05:26:31 GMT

I'm not really to concerned whether DDP is good, bad, free or whatever, I just want it to do what it says it can do.

My problem is that I have a Canon Rebel T6i which is NOT in DDP4's list of cameras suitable to use Depth Compositing (DC) of RAW files.

I initially took 5 photos using a Telephoto Zoom lens and a tripod. All pictures taken in Manual Mode at same setings I did not change the zoom in any of the picutres. There was a mix of some manually focused, and auto focused. Each with the focus point further away from the camera for each shot. When I tried to run the depth compositing tool on my RAW pictures and as expected it failed. I used ddp's Batch Processing to convert the files to Exif-JPEG (*.JPG). I selected all 5 jpg photos, and ran them thru the DC tool, but the tool processed only 3 images.

I took more photos and tried several different combinations of Auto Focus, Manual Focus etc. There were no cases where I was able to have the DC tool process all the images I selected. In one instance I had the tool select 7 of 11 images processed.

I reviewed the list of cautions in the ddp4 manual, and noticed that if multiple subjects are in the screen, it may not be combinable. There was nothing unusual about the photo, but to eliminate this as a potential cause, I then took 6 shots with a zoom lens on a tripod using Manual Mode without adjusting any parameters between shots. Each shot was Auto Focused about a foot farther along the length of an empty table. When I converted the RAW files to jpg and processed them through the DC tool, only the first four were processed.

Is there any rationale why all the shots are not being processed?
I notice in the screen snag above it states 'Performing depth compositing from 3 images. Adjust as needed'

How would one adjust this? Start over and select more?

I don't know if this is coincidence or not, but I took another set of pictures of typical subjects, with Camera set to Image Quality = 'L' so I wouldn't need to convert from RAW. the entire set was processed by DC tool. Seems like dpp4's DC tool doesn't like its own jpg format? Any explanation?

Thanks,

Carl

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

steve_z — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 02:42:33 GMT

I'll give it another try and check to see if I'm deleting the EXIF. I'm using Canon 100mm 2.8 (not L. not IS). I use Canon Camera Connect on my iphone to increment the focus in one step increments.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

Waddizzle — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 11:45:09 GMT

@steve_z wrote:
I'll give it another try and check to see if I'm deleting the EXIF. I'm using Canon 100mm 2.8 (not L. not IS). I use Canon Camera Connect on my iphone to increment the focus in one step increments.

Are uploading the images to your iPhone? That is probably where your EXIF is getting deleted. Download directly to computer.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

steve_z — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:32:27 GMT

The images are all from the 80D. The iphone is just to use the Canon Camera connect to control the focusing and allow the incrementing of the focus one step on the lens at a time. The Raw to JPEG conversion is done in DPP.

I upgraded to DPP 4.13.10.0

I have confirmed that depth composing works when using JPEGs right out of the camera.

Also working now for JPEGs converted from Raw files.

I'm going to chaulk this up to Canon fixing something in the release updates (or user error that I'm not going to try to figure out what it was).

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

carl_schnurr — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:32:16 GMT

I’ve had some difficulty using the Depth Compositing (Focus Stacking) using my Canon Rebel T6i and DPP4. The Rebel T6i which is NOT in DDP4's list of cameras suitable to use Depth Compositing (DC) of RAW files, so I wasn't reallyl expecting much success, but the DPP4 manual does state Depth Compositing (DC) will work with jpeg images. It can be frustrating taking photos that can’t be processed because I don’t understand the software limitations. So I did some experimenting.

I took a set of photos with camera image quality set to ‘RAW +L’, to give output in RAW and jpeg. All photos were taken indoors, no flash, MANUAL mode (f8 0.3s), lens AUTO FOCUS ON, camera set to ‘1 pt AUTOFOCUS’. The images were simple photos taken on my kitchen table so I didn't validate the quality of the images, only the process to make it work.

DPP4’s DC tool processed the jpg images directly from the camera without any issues. As expected, the DC tool did NOT process the RAW files and I got an error, “Cannot Start Depth Compositing Tool, Not Available for the focused image.” I converted the RAW files to jpeg with DPP4 using Batch Processing, EXIF-JPEG. Surprisingly, the DC tool did NOT process the converted jpeg files and I got an error, “Cannot Start Depth Compositing Tool, Select at Least 2 images.”

I did a couple more tests see what other limitations existed.

Although the DPP4 instructions, for best results, camera should be between f5.6 and f11. I found photos taken at f5 could not be processed. (I assume images at f13 may be similar but I didn’t’ test).

The DC tool would only combine images with the same aperture, and shutter speed. (I assume ISO and ‘Exp Comp +/-‘ would behave the same, but did not test). The easiest way to achieve this is to keep the camera in MANUAL mode.
Photos taken in AV mode were included only if the photos had the same settings.

Surprisingly it did not matter if the camera was in AUTO FOCUS, or MANUAL FOCUS. I don't understand this as it is my understanding that the DC tool uses the AF points in its algorithm

In summary, to confidently process photos taken on my Rebel camera with the Depth Compositing Tool in DPP4, photos should be shot in MANUAL mode, using camera jpeg format, and f5.6-f11. MANUAL or AUTOFOCUS seem to work equally well.

Is there a technique (method or conversion setting) I should use to convert the RAW files to jpeg in DPP4 such that the images can be processed by the DC tool?

Thanks,
Carl

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

amaitra — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:53:52 GMT

A simple, quality but "kludgy" tools is enfuse (comes with Hugin).

Edit your RAW images - then export as TIFF or JPEG depending on what you desire. Use enfuse to stack them. DPP will mostly not be able to reprrocess the focus stacked image if it is tiff (they do not support multi layer tiff). But jpg mostly works.

Hugin has a build in align tool as well - you will benefit from a pre-process through that.

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

FloridaDrafter — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 03:13:56 GMT

@carl_schnurr wrote:

Is there a technique (method or conversion setting) I should use to convert the RAW files to jpeg in DPP4 such that the images can be processed by the DC tool?

Thanks,
Carl

All of your shots have to have the same settings, with the exeption of the focal plane. As you've discovered, the camera has to be in manual mode with the lense set to AF (unless you are manually focusing the lens or use a rail) and you will set ISO, Tv, and Av with the software you are using to take the stacks when initially starting the shoot. I use Helicon Remote then transfer my Raw files off camera to my laptop. Once I get them opened in DPP4, I adjust the first shot, if needed, then copy the recipe and batch paste it to the other images then convert & save as Jpeg or tiff, then run them through the DC tool. if you are doing it manually, like by using a rail or trying to advance focus manually, the same rules apply. I know I'm repeating myself, but it bears repeating: All settings must be the same, so once you get that first focus point and have all of your adjustments, snap away and do not change anything.

I've never tried it with the T6i, but have with the T4i, T7i, 7D2, and the 5D4 (just to see if it works), with success.

**Sorry for all the edits, I keep forgetting stuff :)**

Newton

Re: DPP4 Depth Compositing tool (Focus Stacking) - Comments / Observations For those interested.

carl_schnurr — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 12:12:42 GMT

Thanks amaitra and Newton for your quick and thorough reply.
I use the Canon EOS Utility to download all my shots from my camera to my computer.
I should have mentioned that I didn't do any of photo editing in any of the steps above.

My difficulty lies in the step that @FloridaDrafter describes as "...then convert & save as Jpeg or tiff, then run them through the DC tool."

I converted the .cr2 files to .jpg using DPP4, Batch Processing, using the parameters shown below:

But the resulting converted jpegs could not be processed by the DC tool.

Is there a different method or conversion setting I should use in this conversion?

Thanks,

Carl