topic Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them? in Camera Software

Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 21:29:07 GMT

When I open a CR3 image in DPP4 version 4.17.10.0, the image appears to have been cropped, that is ~5% of the top, bottom, LHS & RHS is missing with no way to retrieve it. Do I have an incorrect setting or have others had this problem?

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

wq9nsc — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 21:39:36 GMT

I am using DPP current version 4.17.2 but I used the previous version with multiple bodies and never noticed a problem.

Go into the crop window and it will show the horizontal and vertical pixel count, does that match your camera's sensor specs? Hit clear and see if the pixel count changes in the window.

If the image in DPP is cropped, that crop will show on the thumbnail.

Rodger

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Peter — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 21:43:37 GMT

Any samples/raw files? Which camera? Pixel height and width?

DPP4 crops more than for example darktable/RawTherapee, but 5% seems to be much.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 22:18:09 GMT

Hi Rodger, the crop window shows 6960x4640 which I believe matches the spec for my EOS R7 sensor. Hitting clear does not change the numbers. The thumbnail in DDP4 shows the cropped image. I use Adobe Bridge to review my photos then use DPP4 to edit them. Neither the Adobe Bridge thumbnail nor the full size image are copped.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 22:34:12 GMT

Hi Peter, I have an EOS R7 with a 6960x4640 sensor I believe. I am struggling to attach CR3 files to the thread - I will try to recreate the same issue with JPG files. Maybe my 5% was an overestimate but the image is definitely cropped, why does DPP4 crop at all?

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:09:46 GMT

@Paul-1553 wrote:
Hi Peter, I have an EOS R7 with a 6960x4640 sensor I believe. I am struggling to attach CR3 files to the thread - I will try to recreate the same issue with JPG files. Maybe my 5% was an overestimate but the image is definitely cropped, why does DPP4 crop at all?

You have to have a sharing service like drop box or one drive, make it public, then post the URL here for us to view your Raw files. They will be to large for the forum. I don't think a JPeG will hold the cropping info because it is done in camera and once it's cropped, it's final.

Newton

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

FloridaDrafter — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 02:35:47 GMT

@Paul-1553 wrote:
When I open a CR3 image in DPP4 version 4.17.10.0, the image appears to have been cropped, that is ~5% of the top, bottom, LHS & RHS is missing with no way to retrieve it. Do I have an incorrect setting or have others had this problem?

It sounds like you have set an aspect ratio or it is getting accidently set from time to time (maybe a custom setting), so check the "Shooting 1" menu (at the bottom) "Still img aspect ratio" and make sure it is 3:2, which is the ratio of your entire sensor. Also, if you do want to change the ratio (I like to use 1:1 sometimes because it mimics my medium format Rolleiflex and its large ground glass viewfinder) you will need to go into the "Custom functions 4" (orange menu) and enable "Add cropping information". This will allow you to retain the entire frame but still only show the ratio you set in camera, and also allow you to open the cropping tool and remove the crop you set in camera. If you don't enable "Add cropping information" in camera, only the crop will be displayed and the crop tool cannot restore the whole frame. I shoot Raw only, so I'm not sure it works this way with JPeG or HIF.

I hope this helps 🙂

Newton

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

shadowsports — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 19:54:58 GMT

Just a guess, but could it be his native screen resolution and the scale (%) of the image he has set to display?

Edit. Thanks for clarifying guys. Disregard. I thought he was describing a simple display related issue.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Peter — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:26:04 GMT

@Paul-1553 wrote:
Hi Peter, I have an EOS R7 with a 6960x4640 sensor I believe. I am struggling to attach CR3 files to the thread - I will try to recreate the same issue with JPG files. Maybe my 5% was an overestimate but the image is definitely cropped, why does DPP4 crop at all?

Size including optical black, 7128x4732. Size of active area only, 6984x4660. 10 rows/columns cropping at each side is normal. Why cropping 10 rows/columns at all? From RawPedia:

"Demosaicing may rely on sampling the pixels which surround a given pixel. When demosaicing a pixel which lies at the top edge of the raw image, there are no pixels above it, thus it cannot be demosaiced in the same way and at the same quality as those pixels which are surrounded by a sufficiently large number of pixels."

Also, a distortion corrected picture needs more crop.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

ebiggs1 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:16:48 GMT

" I use Adobe Bridge to review my photos then use DPP4 to edit them. Neither the Adobe Bridge thumbnail nor the full size image are copped."

If this is true than something is happening when it goes to DPP4. I would suggest the first thing to try is to uninstall DPP4 and reinstall DPP4 making sure you have the most current version for your camera.

I have a question, since you have Bridge you must have Photoshop so why use DPP4 at all? The editing ability of PS is so very much more greater than DPP4. I have PS and DPP4, too, but use DPP4 very infrequently.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:19:56 GMT

Attached is one image which I believe shows the issue clearly. It contains the original CR3 file which I can see is not cropped when viewed in Adobe Bridge. When I load the file into DPP4 it appears cropped on my screen and when I save a JPEG version, that version is cropped when viewed in AB and also in Picasa. Saving a new CR3 file results in an uncropped image again when viewed in AB.

https://www.dropbox.com/t/u2VVIXxiAukO24Qo

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Peter — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 17:50:25 GMT

Seems like distortion correction you can't turn off.

Even if they report the same resolution the one exported from DPP is "closer". darktable to the left and your exported file to the right. The embedded JPEG is same as your exported JPEG.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

jrhoffman75 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 18:37:31 GMT

It looks like you have in-camera lens corrections applied:

Lightroom and Bridge do not read those parameters but DPP4 does. Run a test on a subject with and without in-camera corrections and see if that explains it.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

johnrmoyer — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 20:59:49 GMT

From exiftool, information about the crop.

[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Width : 7128
[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Height : 4732
[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Left Border : 156
[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Top Border : 84
[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Right Border : 7115
[MakerNotes:Image] Sensor Bottom Border : 4723
[EXIF:Image] Exif Image Width : 6960
[EXIF:Image] Exif Image Height : 4640

IBIS will move the sensor changing those margins to get the advertised image size. Making several images in a row hand held might frame all the images the same while changing the margins. Other software might not read that information and crop it differently than does DPP.

For the "Why?" question, my guess is that it was based upon an engineering expectation that only that portion of the sensor chip would always be properly illuminated by the lens or maybe a requirement to produce an image with the advertised dimensions. For this particular lens, it is possible that more of the sensor chip is illuminated at wide angles than at telephoto.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

johnrmoyer — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:10:38 GMT

Maybe DPP crops it in an attempt to match what was in the viewfinder? With IBIS the sensor chip will move changing the margins.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:13:00 GMT

Thanks John - I tried with and without the corrections and cannot see any difference in the cropping of the 2 images.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:19:25 GMT

Thanks John, I just took a couple of test shots and I think that you are correct, DPP shows what I see in the viewfinder, the CR3 out of the camera and Bridge appear to show additional pixels to what I see in the viewfinder.

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

Paul-1553 — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 23:21:18 GMT

Thank you all for your inputs - much appreciated!

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

dougsmit — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 20:36:52 GMT

I suspect this is related to my question asked here on CC and not answered. I use DPP4 to convert CR3 to TIFF that will be focus stacked using Zerene stacker. This can be 2 to over 200 images and ALL must be exactly the same size to the pixel. Not selecting a resize option often produces a 1-2 pixel change part way through the group and this causes Zerene to reject the job. When you do resize you are given a default setting for horizontal and vertical but this is not the same as the published image size as shown on the other DPP4 pages (6960x4640 for the R7, for example). My question is why? I see the possibility that it relates to IBIS or even some factor of lens correction in the software. Specifically, should I select those defaults or change them to the 6960x4640 for best results? When shooting focus brackets we must be sure that both ends of the series are fully on the frame (which end is a problem depends on whether you used the in camera focus bracketing routine or advanced the camera toward the subject using a slider like Miops or manually just by leaning toward the subject as you shoot).

Re: Why does DPP4 crop my images when opening them?

johnrmoyer — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 22:09:38 GMT

I have never used Zerene stacker. I use DPP or hugin to stack. I have EOS R5 and not R7. I hope some of this might help anyway.

I always see the same image size starting point in DPP unless:

I have done compositing in DPP
I have distortion correction enabled in the camera
I enable distortion correction in DPP
I have cropping enabled in the camera

I do not remember, but auto lighting optimizer or portrait lighting might make a difference.

exiftool -imagesize *.CR3

will report the size in the raw files.

exiftool -sensor*border *.CR3

will report some of the cropping hints that the camera puts into meta data.

I have not tried, but I expect that exiftool can also write other numbers to those values. This is complicated if the value exists in more than one place.