topic Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)? in Camcorders

Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

redrob — Thu, 28 Jul 2022 23:03:02 GMT

I own a G40, XA11, G50 and G60 -- the latter two 4K models film 4K, but only 30p -- a real disappointment when wanting to render stage performances that have high motion that would really benefit from 60p shooting and rendering.

Are there any known plans for camcorder models with 16-20x zoom, like these, which will shoot 4K60p (or 120p ideally)?

Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

rs-eos — Thu, 28 Jul 2022 23:15:29 GMT

For now, you're going to find that it's all about tradeoffs. There may be others, but I see Canon's XF605 camcorder can capture 4K 60fps and 1080 120fps. Though it is expensive and will be larger and heavier. It's lens goes up to 15x (though you'd need to look at the effective zoom range in the specs to know what that actually means).

The smaller cams which are less expensive would either not have the processing power or ability to deal with the generated heat for high frame rate 4K.

Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

redrob — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 01:13:39 GMT

Hey Ricky -- thanks for replying!

I owned an XHA1S (larger form factor) and despite originally being certain I'd dislike not having the 3 control rings, I've come to really appreciate the operability and smaller form factors of those I mentioned above. I can fit several in my single Pelican case, they all operate similarly, the *mostly* have similar color science (there are some small differences in LED handling between the G60 and the rest), and for event work they're more than adequate. In terms of clarity for stage/event production, the G50 (4K) seems generally the best of the bunch while G60's 1" sensor has visual advantages for some closer shots.

@rs-eos wrote:
The smaller cams which are less expensive would either not have the processing power or ability to deal with the generated heat for high frame rate 4K.

I understand your theory there, but honestly it just sounds like a logistical excuse until they release a model (or firmware update) that makes this possible. Clearly there are many cameras much smaller than these that shoot 4K60p (and higher) -- the Osmo Action, GoPro series, etc. And with the G50 and G60 able to record 150Mbps for 4K recordings, it's *more* than capable of encoding a darned good looking 60p file within that bitrate.

Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

rs-eos — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 02:33:58 GMT

Things are based on physics and the current state of technology. For high frame rate 4K, the cam has to work with a large quantity of data. The larger the sensor, the more work to do as well. The harder the chipsets are pushed to process all that data, the more heat is generated. Firmware is ultimately limited by the existing hardware.

Cheaper solutions also are throwing away lots of data as well to help reduce the amout to process. e.g. many consumer cams only record in 8-bit 4:2:0. So the cams that can record in 10-bit 4:2:2 or greater will need even more processing power and need to deal with more heat.

Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

redrob — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 05:43:49 GMT

"cheaper solutions also are throwing away lots of data"...

Those same cameras I referenced before (much smaller form factor) are recording high bitrate too (e.g. OA filming 4K at 100Mbps, AVC file format). The OA is recording 4:2:0, but so is the G60. So no point in bringing 4:2:2 into this discussion here --- the G70 and others recently were released, and they're still not offering any improvement on framerates to the past many generations. I can't believe this is a heat issue, and if it is, surely it's an issue they could easily solve if tiny little action cams (also recording high bitrates) can solve it. Saying otherwise is would just be an excuse for someone who doesn't want to engineer a solution, or doesn't see marketing strategy in doing so.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here -- rather, advocate for progressing this model line to stay competitive, and useful for end-users like myself who find tremendous value in this form factor and overall feature/spec set.

Re: Future Plans: 4K Camcorder w/60p (in 4K shooting mode)?

redrob — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 03:03:38 GMT

1.5 years later -- can anyone from team Canon chime in here?

I now own a G40, XA11, G50, G60 and three G70's.

I'd love to stick with this Canon line for lots of reasons, and with our successes I've seen many schools and other clients purchasing them as well. But it's becoming an undesirable limit now -- we often want to deliver the smoother look of 60p, but also want to film 4K.

Is a 4K60p model of similar form factor in the works for this series? This is not a big ask, as so many other video cameras are doing this.